Guittarmasters twin column vodka & gin fractionating column

[guittarmaster]

Ok guys, Been looking at this concept for a while. It's based off of ODs Evil Twins build with some modifications to full fill my build requirements of vodka and gin. build objectives are a reflux VM, short enough that it's easy to stash away/hide and will produce amazingly clean vodka and gin without the need of cutting a hole in the ceiling. I am willing to add a little more time to the run to accommodate space and quality.

boiler will be a 15.5 gal keg with half a 6 gal keg attached as described. Heat source will be electric, 4500W, 220V.

15.5 gal keg with top half of a 6 gal keg attached for foam accommodation.

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Here is the sketch of the column.

Twin column sketch. (now exactly to scale)

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2" twin columns, with 1/2" pipe (A) connecting the two like the Evil Twins. I'm not sure if I should go flat or curved plates, they both seem to have their advantages. 10 plates total, 4" apart. Internal downcommers not drawn for simplicity, thinking the internal "J" style. The connecting 1/2 pipe would be soldered to the side of Column 2 below the dephlagmater... hopefully the thermal contact would pre-heat Column 2, reducing the time for equilibrium to be reached.

This same thermal contact is why I was thinking the dephlagmater instead of a double helix of 1/4" pipe like in a boka... the dephlagmater seemed more hard-core for knocking down vaper.

The vapor moves up the 2nd column to the dephlagmater (C). I was thinking since I'd have a lot of 1/2 inch I could make a shotgun dephlagmater.

(B) is the tri-clamp that would leave me access to place a gin bucket on top of the dephlagmater. Was thinking this design would allow me to keep my flavors separated from the plates so I don't strip it out while I establish
equilibrium.

Reflux would fill column 2 and since OD seemed to get good result in the Evil Twins without a dephlagmater, Column 1 would go without a cooling/reflux generating water supply. Column 1 for getting her to low wines, column 2 for final polishing of the neutral spirit.

Also the weight of column 2 would be held up by support pipes attaching it to column 1 (black bars in the illustration)

Thank you all for your input. I have about 1/3 the parts cut in house right now and forgot my camera today!

Thanks for any suggestions, ideas, thoughts, or comments.

[guittarmaster]

Here is the 2" cut so far. Had some family stop by unexpectedly for some holiday fun so progress was postponed. for a few days.

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The 2" all layed out. the 45degree fitting haven't arrived yet

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This is how I'll reduce the 2" to .5 inch. Planning of brazing this. I looked around and might change the connecting to pipe to 3/4" until the upward bend into column 2 for increased air flow and greater speed through that bottom curve to reduce pooling... but I haven't made up my mind. Not sure what the results would be and if it'd matter since the plates seen to reduce the diameter to 30% and that would roughly be .66 diameter

Here is the template if anyone wanted to see it.

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I'm hoping to get a lot done on this right before Christmas. Got all evening tomorrow to work on it

[guittarmaster]

Also, wanting to use the scrap stainless steel from the 6 gal keg to make the plates out of...Waste not want not.

[loneswinger]

I think it is an interesting idea. I would not thermal contact the length of the pipe between column 1 and 2, you want it to establish it's own equilibrium; Doing this could only disrupt it. (column 1 is where the vapor first goes in my terminology)

The liquid trap that returns the reflux from the bottom of column 2 back to the boiler needs to be deep enough to completely prevent vapor from going directly up to column 2. This means that the height of trapped liquid needs to be a lot taller than the total summed height of the amount of liquid you expect on each plate in column 1. Say you expect 1 cm of liquid to build on each plate in column 1, 1 cm x 5 plates = 5 cm. You would want the trap much larger than 5 cm liquid height or the pressure in the bottom of column 1 will be enough to push the liquid out of the trap. Also regarding the trap, you have to prevent the liquid from siphoning out all of the contents of the trap. There are a couple of ways to do this, one is to make the trap a loop and connect a pipe to atmosphere on top of the loop.

Column 1 needs to be getting some reflux to operate efficiently, you will get some just from air cooling, but I would think a dephlegmator at the top of column 1, that provided a reflux ratio of 2 or 3 to 1, would work better. Doing this will kill efficiency, but it is not an efficient design anyway. Returning the reflux from column 2 directly back to the boiler is wasting all of the energy that it took to enrich the alcohol to the level that it is. Ideally it would return to the top of column 1 but that would require a pump or something.

Since there is some reflux in column 1, I would think that you would actually want column 2 to have a smaller diameter since there is less vapor and liquid flow in it, but this may not be important.

All in all, I would not recommend this build, a 1 meter tall column boka or VM with packing would give all the gin and vodka you would ever want, it would be a lot less effort and a lot more efficient. It wouldn't look as cool though.

Cheers,

-Loneswinger

[LWTCS]

Returning the reflux from column 2 directly back to the boiler is wasting all of the energy that it took to enrich the alcohol to the level that it is. Ideally it would return to the top of column 1 but that would require a pump or something.

I'd set her on top of my "Humper Thumper" to try and mitigate some of that.......weeelllll thats my solution to everything...........missus won't gimme no smootch,,,,,,,,,,put her on top the humper.

I would not thermal contact the length of the pipe between column 1 and 2, you want it to establish it's own equilibrium; Doing this could only disrupt it. (column 1 is where the vapor first goes in my terminology)

And I'd try insulating the secondary column and down pipe (?) feeding the secondary. But it seems to me that any disruption would still equalize in just a few minutes.

[guittarmaster]

missus won't gimme no smootch,,,,,,,,,,put her on top the humper.

I love your style!I just might make me one of those yet!!

Glad to hear some feedback on the thermal contact. I think I'll solder column 1 (the first column the vapor comes in contact with) to column 2( the column with the dephlagmater) with a few inches of copper for balance. and try to keep everything else as fluid as possible untili get to experiment and find the best combination of components.

All in all, I would not recommend this build, a 1 meter tall column boka or VM with packing would give all the gin and vodka you would ever want, it would be a lot less effort and a lot more efficient. It wouldn't look as cool though.

This is most likely true as true as the day is long as I have... half of one. ( modified to work with 3/4"diameter column and a 2.5 gal stainless steel pot w/lid sort of still) and it works well after two goes, But this might be the coolest design on the forums! Don't get me wrong, form follows function, but a 2meter column in meter and a third... I've got to investigate! I think OD was onto something with this. recycling the heads... I'm too new to make an accurate decision, but the over all design produced 80% without any sort of cooling jacket or water and that has to stand for something!

I had considered soldering on Heat sinks onto column 1 to create some reflux without overdoing it... but I've been put off by the math of calculating the right amount. Just enough heat sink fins to create a pool to purify the vapor is all that would be required.

Either Way, Keep the comments coming. I'm always glad to hear from members here!

[olddog]

With a dephlagmater on the top of the second column the output will remain at a constant ABV like I have achieved with the Flute design. The original Evil Twin design operated like a potstill where the alcohol percentage decreased as the run progressed, a dephlagmater would fix that problem. I did try a couple of turns of half inch tubing around the head of the column which improved it but not enough.

Evil Twin plated 2"columns

OD

[guittarmaster]

Here is the easy flange I made.

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And as previously shown, it holds up the weight of the keg:

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And here is the kegs pre-cutting and welding... just wanted to show it off a lil...

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There are two more flanges required for this build and to save time u ended up using a pipe bender on it.

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and it fits very well over the 2" pipe as I learned. I can spend an hour hammering out many coils, use my Dremmel tools cut off disk and cut me multiple flanges.

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[guittarmaster]

Update.
I got some time the other day to knock out some more on the still. Sadly I discovered that my bending skills are... well... nonexistent ! Even when packed with salt I kept gettign kinking. Oh well, that is why fitting were invented I guess.

Here is the reducer I knocked out. It's proven to at-least be water tight... vapor tight... I'll find out during the cleaning run.

2" to .5" home made reducer

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Here is the mock-up so far

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* dry fitting of parts. Not soldered.

The only real deviation from the sketch is the the vapor path is now coming into the 2nd column via a side hole and bent up into the center with a long 90* fitting instead of the center reducer. The curved loop at the bottom is 13 cm plus more height to keep the vapor from coming up.

Can't wait to start on the plates.

* pic

[guittarmaster]

UPDATE

I'm complete work on the plates.

perforated_plates

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Got them both

both plates

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As the guy who was gonna cut my but has been hard to get in touch with I've gone to copper plates... A man can only wait so long! I have had fun experimenting on the plate design. I"m gonna keep trying to experiment on the best possible design for the 2" plates... but the 16 3/32" holes seem like a logical starting point.

Here is my condenser.

.5" inner, 3/4" outer

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The inner pipe is .5" and the outer is 3/4". I used .5"/.5"/.75" T unions and used my dermal to allow the union to slide down the 1/2" as shown.

Also got the two column soldered together. here is a layout.

progress so far

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have to finish the dephlegmator and the top of the gin bucket housing.
almost there!!

[Samohon]

Looks great from this angle guittarmaster...

It'll be interesting to see how she performs...

Keep it coming man...

[guittarmaster]

Thanks for the encouragement Sam.

Got an update!

Dephlegmator is %99 finished. I used 3 half inch pipes.

guts of the dephlegmator

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another pic

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The section is cut out of that middle plate to help compartmentalize the water flow as the first few inches will be condensing the bulk of the vapor. It should also help force the water to flow around and though the pipes keeping a steady temp. Probably not needed but what the hell.

It's placed in like this

insertion.

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I then soldered the end caps on it and ran some water through it to see if it held.... It had so many leaks i thought I made a shower-head.... I know what I'll be doing today with my other snow day!

[condensificator]

I then soldered the end caps on it and ran some water through it to see if it held.... It had so many leaks i thought I made a shower-head....

hah!! i know exactly what you mean. i gave myself one hell of a shower when i first tested the water lines on my 3"T! just means that you are that much closer. good luck!

[guittarmaster]

yeah, it's not working out. I"m scraping it and remaking it. god damn it!
All that time, solder, propane, and time wasted. Here's one more thing to put on the "list of shit i can't do"

Since i only have a few feet of copper tubing I'm gonna have to get creative. I'll post pics later when i get this figured out.

[condensificator]

that sucks, but it's all part of learning, right? pour yerself a drink and do something else tonight...then get back and KILL it tomorrow.

[guittarmaster]

Here is the do-over plan
Coils.
Raked my brain and decided that it was the only way to attempt it unless/untill I'm able to get out of the driveway, unfortunatly I didn't have enough contineous tubing to knock it all out in one go so the plan is to take these two coils and get them into the 2", drill 4 holes spaced perfectly and poke connectors through the hole and solder it all shut from the outside. It tightly fits inside the 2". WIll mark the outside tomorrow, drill, and use my fine texture file and get it just perfect. Then the two pieces will be connected on either end with a 3-way fitting making a sort of double-helix. Finding myself wishing for a drill-press right about now!

coils

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coils

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I figured out what I was doing wrong last time I tried to make coils. I didnt' pack the sugar enough so it kinked like hell. This stuff kinked like hell too, but is very much useable!!!! 1/4 inside tubing, one length was like, 3ft, the other was 2.5ft. The outer coil is about 6ix inches long or so long, the inner is about 9ish.

pour yerself a drink and do something else tonight...then get back and KILL it tomorrow.

Dont' mind if I do!!

[guittarmaster]

Alrighty,

Here is a VERY ROUGH edit... more like a dailies actrually , of my controller box build, A few things first. I still need to install a ground into the middle wire onto the box. Then, i need to shrink up my heat wrap shrinks and insulate the 3-way and 4-way union with tape. That being said. Here is a very rough cut of my controller box. You can find the diagram on page 47 of the electric controller thread http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p6866376. Going to wire the ground today and have one of buddies who is an electrican come check it for two bottles of rum Then will edit a nice tutorial. Thanks for the imput

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HUqj-60tLk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

GM

[LWTCS]

2 bottles!!!!!!?

Man he is expensive.........

Be prepared to take some heat for the transaction.

[guittarmaster]

THE LUCK OF THE IRISH!!!!!

FINISHED!!!!!!!!!!

Instead of the coils i ended reconstructing the delphag. This time it worked like a charm I'm amazing what the right tools and twice the patience can accomplish. It is made from 3 1/2in pipes. For the ends I used regular 2" caps, cut the "walls" off, soldered them together, soldered some scrap 3/8 perpendicular and the center and made my own "lathe" with a drill and sand papered this copper oreo until they just barley could fit in the 2" pipe. I them drilled the three 1/2in holes and lastly unsoldered the disks. It fit like a charm!

a 3 - 1/2in shotgun delphag

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This is the delph and gin bucket "hat"

delph and gin bucket hat

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delph and gin bucket

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[guittarmaster]

Here is a pic of the whole kit and kaboodle.

whole rig

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and here is one of the liquid return.

liquid return

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Since it's St. Patricks day I'm going to go out and party the rest of the night after a few more posts. This is what i have left.

1) Get cork to seal my tri-clamps furrels and heater-element.
2) clean run with vinegar/water and check for vapor leaks. I've been checking with water after almost ever soldering session so i know it's atleast water tight!
3) 2nd cleaning with my "heads and fients"
4) break her in and find out if she's build for pleasure or build for speed.
5) make up with my girlfriend for all the evenings I've retreated into the basement to work on this still!

Let me know what you think!!

[exon]

It looks dandy, GM !
Will look forward to your production reports!
exon

[guittarmaster]

Here's an update of the progress of this still.

Currently I have 10 gallons of UJSSM in two 5gal buckets that I started last night. Modifications of note are that I inverted 5lb of sugar with one 1tsp citric acid per bucket. I also added 1 gallon of properly enzyme mashed corn sugars to each 5gal bucket to add more flavor to this first generation run and this was stirred and final SG was adjusted to 1.090 with a little more sugar. I also added 1tsp of epson salt per 5/gal bucked as it seems to work well in the birdwarchers i've made. Lastly I used distillers yeast. I mention all this for later flavor comparisons of this UJSSM through the still.

This afternoon I had time to get a little aquatinted with this still by running water to test for leaks. I found several pin hole leaks that I had to repair. After those repairs and looking at the clock I realized that I wouldn't get to run my Uncle Remus rice vodka mash that I made for final cleaning purposes... So I decided to push her with water vapor and see what I can get out of her that way.

initial results with the water are very promising. My 4500W 220V boiler brought 10 gallons of water to a simmer in a little under half an hour on around med-hi setting. Once I noticed the base of the still starting to warm up I turned the heat down to med-low. About 35 minutes later the first drops of water came out of the condenser. A little after this I noticed another small leak I missed so I turned to power off and soldered it back together.

This time, with a warm still, it literally took only 3.5 minutes for water to drip out of the condenser. While at a low take off rate I put a dry town against the hot copper pipe, leaned over, put my ears against it and listened. I could hear the sound of plates bubbling in the 2nd pipe (one with the delph), and maybe two plates in the first. Both pipes were not bubbling much by the sound of it but then again it was what i heard through a towel too. I then decided to turn the power supply on a higher setting and see what kind of take off rate I could get on water. I slowly turned up the heat as high as I could without creating a rolling boil in the boiler. At this heat I initially had steam coming out the condenser but increased the cooling water and it compensated resulting in a nice steady flow. I timed how long it took to fill up an empty 12oz beer can and it took 4m35s. lets round up and say 12 oz in 5 minute, thats 36oz in 15min and about a gallon & a pint an hour! (with water in the boiler). Before switching experiments I listened to the pipes agains and still heard reflux sputtering away. The power-setting was between med & med-hi for this, so there is some more room there !

The next test was the Delph. I opened her up and put the still into 100% reflux. I didn't need to put my head against the still to hear the plates bubbling after this happened!!! I waited a few minutes and felt the boiler return pipe. It was hot... but nowhere near boiling water vapor hot. I could keep my hand against it for about 8 seconds before it was too hot to stand anymore. After about 10 mins of total reflux I checked the pipes again. Pipe 1 had the sound of wet plates, but not as loud as pipe2, which had quieted down by this time . I undid the tri-clamp for the gin bucket and all the vapors were being knocked down by the delph. I felt a humid warmth, but didn't see any noticeable steam and my didn't feel any either. After this I re-clamped the gin-bucket of a top-hat, and turned off the delph.

At this time I feel I should mention that the delph holds about 2/3 - 3/4 of a pint glass worth of water. With the water turned off I timed how long until I had condensate exiting the still. After about 7 minutes I got bored of waiting for more water to boil and started putting things away.

In summation. With the boiler charged with water I was able to get a little better than a gallon an hour output and my delph was able to knock it all down while maintaining bubbling plates. The exact number of bubbling plates will remain a mystery, but then again I do have 10 of them so if one or two don't work right I can live with it. The real test will be sometime this week. I don't know what day I'll get to run the Rice Vodka mash but I'll let you know as soon as I do.

GM.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that after i took the still off the boiler the smell of flux was over whelming! Apparently I was able to flush most of that crud down here by the reflux action.

[olddog]

It's gonna work totally different once you get some alcohol going through.


OD

[LWTCS]

I think she is gonna run like a peach.

Looking forward for more.

[guittarmaster]

It's gonna work totally different once you get some alcohol going through.

True that. Here's the report of my first alcohol date... i mean alcohol cleaning run with her.

T=0... 5 gal of ~6%abv all rice mash was decanted into the boiler and diluted with 2gal water for extra clearance above element. and fired.
T=45min...boiler and still hot. Delph running & warming up. 100% reflux.
T=49min.... popping / crackling sound coming out of liebig from condensate discharge tube.
T=53min... gin bucket hat felt warmish to touch so was removed to investigate the sound. Was reveled plates were flooding and warm (not hot) condensate being "lifted" into delph. Heat turned down. delph turned off. Liebig turned on.
T=60min - T=120min... First drops of condensate dripping out liebig. Rate of take off quickly jumped up. foreshots was collected and disgarded. 1/2 US cup of strong smelling heads was collected and died down fairly quickly. Collection was started (In US cup Increments). 1st cup was collected and measured; 65%abv. Heads were present but faded by the end of collection.
Sequencial cups were collected under different settings of power and delph flow rate. cup #2 was collected quicker and averaged 45%. Cup 3 quicker still and @ 40% abv. Power was adjusted to lowest setting which supported vapor on plates, delph was adjusted to 100% reflux and was maintained for 15min. Cup 4 was then collected at 85% with take off rate slowing considerably during last half of cup. Cup 5 was collected only half full and nearly drop-wise and collection stopped when the smell of tails was coming through. Another half cup collection was made in cup 6 by turning the heat up; strong smelling tails (was discarded)


Conclusion:
After consulting the parent sites interactive calculator and I have determined that the results are not satisfactory as I only achieved roughly 3 plates worth of purification on my best aliquot of the run (assuming after dilution a 4% mash charge). Considering it was a my first alcohol run with her I can live with it.

Although the plates did create a good compression of heads and tails allowing for nearly 1 full liter of "drinkable" spirit ("drinkable" as in would be if it wasn't a cleaning run), The plates flooded and must be improved for greater efficiency than 3 plates worth out of 10.

Also the popping / crackling sound is assumed to be plate flooding up past delph. (does this sound right?)

Thirdly I'm very excited about the compression of heads and tails.

The UJSSM has slowed to about a bubble every 2-3 seconds so It should get ran friday when I'm off work!!

GM

edit: after finishing some reading on the flutes thread I think i know what i gotta do to improve my downcommers. I don't have a reservoir "cap" on the bottom of them. I'll get that put in there before I run the UJSSM. Let me know if you guy have any ideas on this.

[rad14701]

guittarmaster, the lack of reservoir cup or J at the bottom of your downcomers could be a contributing factor in the less than stellar performance... Get those fixed and see what happens... I think you'll see a definite improvement...

[guittarmaster]

sweet!, Got the plates adjusted. I have a good feeling about this! I've got my UJSSM ready and should have the laundry room tonight!

[LWTCS]

and should have the laundry room tonight!

Whoe whoe whoe............Whoah..............
Dude.........you gotta just take that laundry room space.....put your foot down and and take that space like a .................

sorry gotta go...my missus callin me.

[guittarmaster]

put your foot down and and take that space like a .................

sorry gotta go...my missus callin me.

If only it were simple! Naw, it's the neighbors. I live in what would be a really nice old house but the land lord cut it up into smaller apartments. We've divided up "laundry days" between the tenants, so had to wait for my turn @ the laundry room. I'll probably get bored of sharing a space and figure up a way to just run my electric keg off 110 upstairs. but I digress....

Run 2.
7.5 gal
1st gen UJSSM. 8% after dilution to fill boiler half way.
______________________________________________

9:00, fire up
9:50, heat up finished, Heat turned to med-low, twins put into full reflux
10:05, bleed two shots for meth, & collected 1 cup heads (85%abv). all was thrown down the drain.
10:10. started to collect late heats. 1st portion. 3/4 cup, 150 proof
10:20, 2nd portion, late heads early hearts. 1/2 cup, 138 proof
10:25, 3rd portion, early-middle hearts. 1.5 cup, 110 proof (ended collection with first taste of clean hearts). still put into100% reflux
10:40, 4th portion, strong middle hearts, 2 cups, 135 proof (first 1/4 cup @160proof, but fall fast)
11:00, 5th portion, late heats, 1.25cups, 120 prof. stopped collecting at first sign of tails
11:10, 6th portion, tails. 1.25 cup, 65 proof slight cloudy, smell of nasties coming through but not the typical smell
11:20, 7th portion. middle tails. 1.5 cup, 60 proof. cloudy. first smell of wet cardboard smell of tails
11:30, 8th portion. late tails, .5 cup. 55 proof. very wet dog/gym sock smell.
turned off still.
__________________________________

Over all collected total 8.5 cups @ 116proof off this first generation. airing out untill morning to decide if I'll use drink it or throw it back into the pot, but leaning towards to latter.

Much improved performance. Looking forward to more playing around with the still. I kept the heat constant throughout and just focused on adjusting the delph. May need a more sensitive valve to control water flow to it but will wait to see how she preforms when she has a fully charged boiler. I suspect this will make a large difference in preformance.

removed gin bucket "top-hat" during reflux mode, flooding is resolved.
roughly 3 cups of hearts collected above 120proof. I'm much happier with this. Hopefully in a few runs I'll be pulling that beautiful 95% mark... even if it's one drop at a time. the plates ARE removable, so i COULD pull them and stuff with copper scrubbers in the 2nd column if needed. However I'm positive a few more driving lessons and I'll be pulling what i want right off those perforated plates.

However, as I'm really wanting gin and lots of it I'm thinking this 120-150 proof might be a good range so I don't have to dilute the distillate as much, and in turn thinning out the flavor.

Will try similar settings with the next two generations of the UJSSM but about 12 gallons or so of 15% mash in the boiler and see how that changes performance.

GM

[guittarmaster]

Well, I finally got it !!!!
I have to say I"m impressed how extremely sensitive the delph settings are. A slight little change on this right and the whole equilibrium completely shifts! Luckly I found the sweets spot early on this run and ended up collecting .8 gallons, most of it at %90 !

I only used about half a gallon for blending, and it averaged %89-90 (the whole 1/2 gallon before diluting)

This was 2nd generation of UJSSM, 12-14 gallons or so of it that had been fermented to about %11. I collected it at a speed of 1 pint/12 minutes. After cutting and diluting I now have 6 liters of nice vodka. I think the next run I'll start to experiment with my Gin botanicals.

how does this speed verses %90 abv take off sound to you guys? slow, fast, alright? any suggestion?