My Boka Build... need some advise.

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Austin Nichols
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My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Austin Nichols » Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:47 am

OK I'm going to build a dual slanted plate Bokabob out of 2 inch 50mm copper and have a couple of questions before I get started.

I've decided after a lot of reading that I will build a liebig for cooling the distillate due to all the posts saying the output gets pretty warm.

So! can I space the plates in the head further apart to allow a connection to the liebig with 1/2 inch pipe, and will doing this effect the performance of the still ?

Also, thanks to Rad my brain is really hurting after he mentioned a boka / VM combo, I've searched and looked almost every where but couldnt find anything about such a combo.
Now I presume Rad meant building two still heads, but then I'm thinking maybe he meant putting the VM system on the Boka head???? forgive my stupidity please as I was born this way :lol: but can someone pleas clarify this for me.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get further along but I'm pretty confident I can build it without too many dramas, and I promise to take pics of any fuggups for you all to see, along with pics of my build as it progresses.

I already have

1M of 2 inch
1M of 1.5 inch
1m of 1 inch
1m of 1/2 inch
half a meter of 3/8 or 5/16 inch
and a few assorted caps, reducers and elbows
a 1/2 inch compression fitting ball valve for coolant flow
and another meter of 2 inch on it's way

Cheers, Allan.

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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Kentucky shinner » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:23 am

my experience was that I thought the same thing about the output being was because I read the same things. I built a graham condenser for my out put. I used it one time. There was really no need for it. I removed it. I found for me the chance for the extra water leaks from more hose connections was just not worth the trouble. I really did not see any gain from it what so ever. I have never run it since that one time.

As far as spacing the plates farther apart I am not sure about that. I am sure rad will be along shortly and he can help you with that. He may also see a reason for the output cooler, but I dont think so.
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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Husker » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:15 am

Austin Nichols wrote: Also, thanks to Rad my brain is really hurting after he mentioned a boka / VM combo, I've searched and looked almost every where but couldnt find anything about such a combo.

Now I presume Rad meant building two still heads, but then I'm thinking maybe he meant putting the VM system on the Boka head???? forgive my stupidity please as I was born this way :lol: but can someone pleas clarify this for me.
A VM is a great still design for production of neutral. It can perform well, and has the added benefit, that it simply stops producing (almost) when the ethanol has all been removed from the wash (if properly designed and correct proportions valve size). The downfall of it, is that it has a hard time splitting out the foreshot / heads from the run, or at least compressing them as well as a LM. The VM is able to run at 100% reflux. This is needed for this 'dual' design.

Now the boka (good design for an LM), can compress the head pretty well. It also can be run at 100% reflux. This is needed for the design.

I have seen a few examples of this type stil, but I do not think you will find any detailed design plans. Basically, this still, is a VM still, where the condenser (above the VM take off port), is raised some, and the 2 slant plates of a boka are added (with the proper needle valve).

Thus, to start out, you run both types in 100% reflux. You do this until the temp in the boka part drops below that of ethanol (it will). You then bleed off the foreshots, or use the quick FULL dump, close and 100% reflux, quick full dump, close, ..... until all of the nasties have been removed, and all that is left is PURE ethanol. Then you close off the needle valve for good, make sure you are equalized properly, and then run it as a 'normal' VM run, but without having any heads left in the mix.

I know there are members here who have built a 'dual' VM/LM unit. Hopefully they will follow up.


Now that you have made a boka, I think you can easily retro a VM into it, by splicing the VM section (slightly reduced tube size, a T, the valve and condenser), fairly easily, if this is the direction you want to go with it.

H.
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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Braz » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:38 am

Austin Nichols wrote:So! can I space the plates in the head further apart to allow a connection to the liebig with 1/2 inch pipe, and will doing this effect the performance of the still ?
No need to do so.

A 1/2" leibig jacket over your standard 1/4" takeoff tube will give you all the heat transfer you need you need to cool your distillate. Mine is 16" long and it is plenty efficient.

Image
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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Austin Nichols » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:15 am

Braz,

That looks really sweet and pretty easy to do, the fittings on the jacket look like air line fittings yeah? no tee's, so just drill the right sized hole and solder some 1/4 inch for the water (air) line connections..... I like it!

Husker,

Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail, I appreciate it, and now have a much better understanding of what I'll need to do if I decide to go this way.
I'll just build the Boka first and then maybe add the VM section later, unless it's better to build it in now while I have the time as I'm having a couple of months off work & wont get much time once I go back.

Kentucky Shinner,

I read a post here somewhere about someone using a fairly long coil of 1/4 inch as a cooling method for the output, it looked really pretty and would save a bit of solder, but if cooling the distillate isnt needed I might just not worry about it BUT it would look really cool :mrgreen:

Thanks again :D

AL.

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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Kentucky shinner » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:28 am

here is mine the way I always run it. It works just fine. You just have to decide what you want I guess.
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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Braz » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:30 am

Austin Nichols wrote:Braz,
That looks really sweet and pretty easy to do, the fittings on the jacket look like air line fittings yeah? no tee's, so just drill the right sized hole and solder some 1/4 inch for the water (air) line connections..... I like it!
They are water line fittings. I found them at my local big box hardware store (Menard's). But, yes, just solder a couple of 1/4" stubs into the jacket and put the fittings on the stub. They have a compression ring which seals around the tube. The jacket itself is made from two 1/2" by 8" long stub out tubes (called "bullets") and a center connector collar.

I tend to spend an inordinate amount of time wandering around the plumbing department of my local store. :roll:
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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by rad14701 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:41 pm

Husker nailed my reference to the Boka/VM combo, Austin Nichols... But, as you mentioned, starting with the Bokakob LM dual slant plate and leaving the VM section for a later addition sounds like a good plan...

And, as I mentioned in another topic, I'd go with a Graham condenser for cooling the LM product take off... I have a small liebig on my rig but also have a Graham condenser partially built and collecting dust in my tool box... It's actually bigger than needed and may end up being two or three condensers if I decide to cut the coiled copper tube... Either that or I'll add a cold finger down the center and use it as a reflux condenser...

While Kentucky shinner is having success without a product condenser many or builders have had to add them after the fact due to excessively warm output... It's one other those items that can be added on later should you choose to skip it during the initial build...

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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Husker » Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:43 pm

Here is a link to a very perty combo. The one listed here may be a little different than what you are building, but this should put the words / only that have been listed here, into real world pictures.

H.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 32&t=15942
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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Kentucky shinner » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:44 pm

I may have to reinstall my graham and see if it makes any difference... Hmmm.
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here it is with the graham installed
here it is with the graham installed

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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Austin Nichols » Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:27 am

Thanks everyone for all your help, this forum is bloody awesome.

I've made a start and got the coil soldered into the cap, also cut the slots for the angled plates & fucked up one of the plates I made..... :oops:
I cut the plate out of a bit of 1 inch pipe I flattened out, got it in the slot and filed it all nice n smooth then looked down the column at it and realised that I shouldnt have cut the sides off next to the tab you bend down..... (insert lots of swearing here) :lol:

So now I've gotta pull it back out and make a new one I will use some thinner copper plate that's easy to cut with tin snips, the thickness of the pipe wall is thicker than my hacksaw blade. I've walked away from it now and poured a good strong glass of my bourbon.

I also had a look at Samohan's LM/VM plans with the VM below the boka head, I reckon it looks good too and wonder how it turned out.

Gotta head back into town tomorrow to try and track down something to join the two columns together, I'm not sure what I'll use yet.

Cheers, AL.

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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Braz » Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:18 am

try putting two blades in your hacksaw.
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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Kentucky shinner » Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:25 am

something else that works really well for this is a dremell tool with a cutting wheel. It is great for copper.

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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Austin Nichols » Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:15 am

Braz wrote:try putting two blades in your hacksaw.
Oh yeah! fuck me up with a simple solution why dont ya, I did say in my initial post "I was born this way" there's always an easy way but I gotta learn the hardest :lol:

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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by LWTCS » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:22 am

Austin Nichols wrote:
Braz wrote:try putting two blades in your hacksaw.
Oh yeah! fuck me up with a simple solution why dont ya, I did say in my initial post "I was born this way" there's always an easy way but I gotta learn the hardest :lol:

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:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by maritime » Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:09 pm

i added a small liebig cooler on my boka take off.
Image
this is just the internal coil discharge, it ties into the bottom on the liebig then i put a soft hose on the little nipple off the top of the liebig.
Image
it does add a little protection from steam/hot vapor if your pulling the tails off fast.
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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by NcHooch » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:45 pm

Austin Nichols wrote:
I read a post here somewhere about someone using a fairly long coil of 1/4 inch as a cooling method for the output, it looked really pretty and would save a bit of solder, but if cooling the distillate isnt needed I might just not worry about it BUT it would look really cool :mrgreen:

Thanks again :D

AL.
That's prolly my still yer talkin about. If I only had a 12" takeoff tube for the output, the distillate would be quite hot drippin out of the end, but the 12"x 1"dia coil cools it down to room temp really nice, and with no plumbing involved. Simple, effective.
See my bok thread in my sig for pics
cheers,
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Last edited by NcHooch on Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Austin Nichols » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:00 am

Thanks for all the replies so far, I've got a few good ideas from you all.

I've decided on a graham condenser that will be attached to the lower column, I just need a couple of end caps and some 1/4 inch pipe and then can pretty much just solder the rig together.

Just gotta work out a boiler connection and have a needle valve on the way and she's all done.

I'll post a pic soon of my progress up to now.

Cheers.

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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by rad14701 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:23 am

Austin Nichols wrote:I've decided on a graham condenser that will be attached to the lower column . . .
That phrase has me a bit concerned... It makes it sound like you are considering attaching the Graham condenser onto the side of the reflux column itself, which would create a cold spot on the side of your reflux column... While you could have a support soldered between the column and the condenser, I wouldn't recommend a direct attachment... Or perhaps you just didn't convey the idea as clearly as you intended...

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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Austin Nichols » Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:41 pm

Yeah I didnt convey that too well did I :oops:

I will most likely attach it similar to how maritime has in his photo above, however, Being on the lower column I would make it detachable via the needle valve connection. (I think)

Well today should be interesting, I havnt soldered anything for about 15 years.

Cheers.

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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Austin Nichols » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:05 am

Thankyou Rad & everyone else who posted here, your advise and input into my build has helped me out heaps.

My boka is all but done except for the keg joiner, I posted my new rig in the "my first" forum.

Cheers. :mrgreen:

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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Kentucky shinner » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:52 pm

Check this out Austin... I am excited I ran my 2" Bok today and you got to check out this ABV. 48 column with 40" of copper packing.
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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Austin Nichols » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:32 pm

Kentucky shinner wrote:Check this out Austin... I am excited I ran my 2" Bok today and you got to check out this ABV. 48 column with 40" of copper packing.
Yes ok, I think that is acceptable :lol:

I will be a very happy lad if I can get results like that.

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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by drunkmore » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:32 am

thats one huge cooling water resevoir you have in the back ground of pic

:lol:
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Re: My Boka Build... need some advise.

Post by Samohon » Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:30 am

Austin Nichols wrote:I also had a look at Samohan's LM/VM plans with the VM below the boka head, I reckon it looks good too and wonder how it turned out.

Cheers, AL.
Turned out great AN..Here she is in stovetop mode... I run the full VM/LM in the garage with a 1500mm column of SS and copper packing...
The Kitchen Still.jpg
Bit of a late post, seen your rig already AN...
Hope this helps...
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