Electric keg question

[still crazy]

Ok so I built this keg
15.5 gallon with (3) electric elements. (2) are 120v 2000w and (1) 120v 1500w
Now from what I understand of electricity Amps x volts = watts I have a 20 amp breaker on the plug that will feed the elements
so 20 amps x 120 volts = 2400 watts

The question is::: Will I have to plug each element into a different circuit breaker feed ?

[LWTCS]

20 only gonna give ya twenty. Danger is when yer on a 30-40 amp circut and your element is only rated for 15-20 amps.

[Tater]

That pull around 46 amps if all were on .50 amp breaker with num 8 wire size

[MuleKicker]

That pull around 46 amps if all were on .50 amp breaker with num 8 wire size

+1
You need to run on seperate breakers.

Do you have 220v capabilities?

[Dnderhead]

I say it just ant going to work on one circuit.2000w=16amps at 120v x2 =33,3amps. if adding on other 1500w then its another 12.5amps added.
.even one at 2000w at 120v is 16a and that is about the limit.
so one at a time OK but not more. for all at once you need over 46amps preferably 50 amp circuit.

[rad14701]

I only have 15A circuit breakers here so I can only run up to one 120V 1500W 12.5A element per circuit with virtually nothing else drawing power... A 120V 2000W element will draw ~17A so it needs its own 20A circuit breaker, minimum...

The problem with running of three separate circuits is that you need to keep extension cords as short as possible and at least the proper amperage rating or greater...

[still crazy]

Well I have a 3 bay /6 space garage with each bay has (2) 20 amp breakers servicing it.
The main panels 200 amps and each bay has a 220v welding socket in it.
So I will either run an extension cord to each element or can I feed one leg of the 220v to the (2) 2000w elements for heat up and then just run the 1500w for maintaining the boil.

[Dnderhead]

in order to run 2, 120v elements on 240 you would need to run in series
or if your 240v is large enough then you can "split" the 240 (this is in the states)

[scotty]

Do you intend to run all 3 at once???
i would be tempted to run a 240 volt sub panel from your existing 240 volt box then run one large breaker to feed 3 seperate switched recepticles so you can reduce the wattake as you heat up.

[LWTCS]

Not trying to critisize or anything SC.

But I would recommend that you firm up a solution that is a bit more,,,,,safe,sound and could come a bit closer to passing an (imaginary) inspection from the building department.

30 amp-20amp breaker, 4500-5500 watt element,# 8-#10 wire , and at least a DPDT switch. 20 amp rating (much cheaper) if you go with a 4500 watt element. Then save some pennies up for a mulekicker controller.
The 4500 watt will give you a 20 minute heat up with a 20-25 liter charge.

If you do this then you can leave your DPDT right in line and add the controller by adding heavy plug ends on everything. I used twist and lock plug ends. Everything breaks down and stores away very nicely.

Maybe you can fund your electrical solution with a build sale or two?

[MuleKicker]

problem being, SC already has a bunch of holes drilled in that poor keg. The DPDT is a great/cheap starter idea.
If you want to see about a good control pm me and we will talk. capable of as much juice as you can throw at it.
chances are i can build you a control for about as much as you have invested in elements and other supplies you have for your setup now.

[LWTCS]

I was thinkin one of them holes would be a great place to land a dump valve.

[squidd]

No question.

240 volt 4500 watt element off a 30 amp breaker, # 10 wire and an MK Powertrol.

Bullet proof.

Maybe a drain plug for one of the extra holes, and a fill tube for the other.

squidd

[still crazy]

Little more info and some pics
I want to be able to run all three for quick heat and then just the 1500w for running.
So each element will have a switch and a line run to it <<< YES or NO
I have (3) 220v outlets each with a 60 amp home run to the panel.
And have (6) 120v circuits with 30 amp breakers on each
The main breaker panel is 200 amps

The kegs is tapped and ready for power has a 1/2" drain and a 3/4" fill so that the column once mounted can stay in place.

pics below

[MuleKicker]

Not pickin on ya at all, but the way you put those elements in there. Im sure you know they gotta be completely covered at all times when runnin. What are they? 8-10" long? So you gotta have yer keg atleast 1/2-3/4 full at all times. Maybe im wrong and yer runnin a different style element. On the plus side yer workmanship is damn good.

[still crazy]

The 1500w 7" and the 2000w stick up a total of 9" so even 1/3 full they are covered.
Got a single 1500w in the side of my 10L fire extinguisher on the hextopus and its 10L run in 1 hour foreshots to tails with a 20 min heat up.
Quite zippy.

[still crazy]

Here is my wiring diagram will this work ???
RAD mule anyone .....

[squidd]

Yup.

The maximum load on leg #2 (red wire) and the neutral (white wire) will be 25 amps. (When the two right elements are ON together).

I would replace the 60 amp breaker with a 30 amp one and use #10 AWG wire; would probably use #8 if I had it handy.

The GREEN wire from the plug goes to the metal CB enclosure and not to the 60 amp breaker as per your diagram, correct ?

squidd (anyone )

[still crazy]

Yes squidd the green is grounded back to the main breaker box.
Does all the rest look OK
I have a old welder cord (25 feet) waiting for a use.
So i figure I could mount a 4" box and then feed the individual toggle switch(s) from that <<<< Thoughts

I can run the wiring fine its the theory that gets me.

[squidd]

SC, I did an edit re the 60 amp CB.

squidd

[squidd]

Yes squidd the green is grounded back to the main breaker box.
Does all the rest look OK

Yes. See suggestion about CB size.


I have a old welder cord (25 feet) waiting for a use.

What gauge is it ?


So i figure I could mount a 4" box and then feed the individual toggle switch(s) from that <<<< Thoughts

Not sure about the physical sizes of your switches. You can fit 3 of them in one 4" box ?
Maybe 3 individual single boxes ganged together ?


I can run the wiring fine its the theory that gets me.

squidd

[still crazy]

Sorry missed the breaker suggestion.
The actual 230v is fed with (2) 30amp breakers.
The welding wire is #10 with the plug that matches the 230v socket at the outlet box.

I was going to mount a 4" box to run the main wire into and then run BX cables to individual boxes with the toggle switch(s) in them.

[squidd]

Ah, okay then.

A double 30 amp breaker is still 30 amps, not 60.

Can't add anything other than suggesting, as before, only one larger element with power control.
Or at least one of your elements with power contol.

Looks like you're good to go.

Cheers,
squidd

[squidd]

SC, I need to correct an error on my part.

In my first reply to your post, I stated that the current draw on one of the legs and the neutral would be 25 amps.
In fact, it will be closer to 30 amps (29.16). I mistakenly read your center element to be 1000 watts instead of 1500.

So, with both the 2000 watt and 1500 watt elements ON at the same time, your breaker and feed cable will be operating at max ampacity.

You may want to consider a separate 20 amp breaker to power the 1500 watt element.

Also, since you are using BX cabling from your junction box to the switch boxes, this changes your wiring schematic.
It would be better to keep running individual neutrals all the way to the elements instead of daisy chaining them.

# 12 AWG wire to each individual element would be fine.

squidd

[still crazy]

I opened the 230v outlet box
There is
(1) RED wire to one leg
(1) BLACK to the other leg
The White and GREEN are connected together into the "L" shaped inlet

I wired
(1) BLACK to toggle switch and to (1) 2000W, 120V element
(1) RED to (2) toggle switch(s) and then to (1) 2000W, 120V element & (1) 1500W, 120V element
The WHITE wire was wired to each of the other terminals of the elements
The GREEN wire was grounded directly to the Keg

I drew a wiring diagram

IS THIS CORRECT ???

[squidd]

SC,

This wiring is INCORRECT.

In your initial schematic, you showed that your plug had separate white and green leads, as it should be.
Now you say that the white and the green are connected together. It should NEVER be like that.

For a 230 volt load only, a 3 prong plug of sufficient ampacity is all that is required.
However, since your 115 volt splits are fed by a double breaker across the 230 volt legs, a 4 prong plug of sufficient ampacity is required.

And the green wire is for grounding only; it should never be connected to the neutral.

As per my last post, be aware also that one half of the double breaker will be operating at close to its maximum rating when the twinned elements are both ON. If it should trip, then you will lose all power to your keg.

squidd

[bgrizzle]

SC... you have 3 separate heating elements... my guess is that you want to be able to control from FULL blast (all burners on) down to a low heat (1500W element only... and that will probably be on a dimmer switch of some sort)

If I were you, I would think about each heating elment as a separate circuit.

From your breaker box, I would run outlets:

Outlet 1: 12AWG wire.... 20 AMP breaker.... plug 2000W element into this outlet
Outlet 2: 12AWG wire.... 20 AMP breaker.... plug 2000W element into this outlet
Outler 3: 14AWG wire.... 15 AMP breaker.... plug 1500W element into this outlet

Control the heating element on outlet 3 with a dimmer of some sort.... Maybe I read this thread incorrectly, but thats what I would do...

A simpler solution would be to run a 220V outlet with a 40A breaker and use a MK 5500W controller...

If I read the thread right, then my suggestion is spot-on... Just because a 15A breaker will hold 1800+ watts without tripping... that copper wire is getting HOT. If you run your circuits like I said, you can unplug each element when ever you want... and you control the low end heat with a dimmer....


good luck
grizzle

[squidd]

....A simpler solution would be to run a 220V outlet with a 40A breaker and use a MK 5500W controller...

grizzle

Already suggested that to him, previous page this thread. (30 amp breaker, 4500 watt element, MK powertrol).
Now just trying to help him do it his way.

squidd