alembic

[farmerjohn]

Hello all first post,

Maybe you can help me decide which to or not to get. I'm interested in getting a very small copper alembic either 0.7L or 2.5L size.

http://www.copper-alembic.com/shop/inde ... oductId=32" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://www.copper-alembic.com/shop/inde ... oductId=41" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

possibly with or without the alcohol burner to fire it.

my question is what kind of volume can I expect to get out of the 0.7L size?
I'm really only interested in getting about 300ml or so of something 20% to hopefully 40% alc.
I will probably be distilling homemade wines to make brandy type of beverages.

any pro's cons on these type of alembics?

also there is a distiller calculator on this site but can't figure out the run time and step time thing

http://www.copper-alembic.com/distillin ... &timeti=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


thank you for your time

john

[Samohon]

Welcome to HD farmerjohn...

Moved this post here to the Welcome Center...

Have fun in your new hobby and Stay Safe...

[hackware]

output...?

not much...

read a bit more here before spending yer cash on eye candy...

[Husker]

Something .7L is a toy (or decoration). It can not be used to make any product. The smallest usable still is going to be in the 8-16L range, and even that one is considered very small, and very difficult to make any cuts with.

H.

NOTE, cross posting (posting the same thing twice, in 2 different forums), is not wanted. Please do not do that in the future. One post is enough, it will get read.

[farmerjohn]

Thanks hackware and Husker,

Disheartening to hear they won't make anything. But glad you advised me before I bought one.
The advertising on the 2.5L one said it'd get about 350ml. out of 1.5L of wine. Sorry about the cross-posting my mistake, didn't see the approval-pending message.

thanks,

john

[Husker]

in 'theory' 2.5L of wine might get 350ml of output. However, it will simply be a concentration of ALL of the volatiles out of the wine. One of the big 'key' things you will find when distilling, is that you have the ability (with practice), to pull out just the parts of the wine that you want, leaving all of the other 'bad' stuff in the boiler (or remove them from the process). However, to do this, you really need a larger production run. A tiny run like that will have the transitions from good to bad happen SO fast, that you will not be able to catch them, and it might be SO tiny, that these transition never really happen at all.

So, in theory, you could produce something 'stronger' than what you started with. However, the final quality will likely be much worse than what you are wanting to make.

H.

[rad14701]

Greetings, farmerjohn...

As Husker pointed out, whatever there is in say 2.5 liters of wine is going to end up in whatever volume you have after distillation... Think of it as simply a more concentrated headache because whatever headache you would get from 2.5 liters of wine will be in the resulting spirits...

While I currently run an 8 liter stock pot boiler I downsized from much larger... I would never consider going smaller than 8 liters and would recommend starting even larger, as previously mentioned...

You'll most likely find out that it isn't very cost effective to buy wine and then distill it and will eventually start fermenting your own washes... Those washes will most likely be larger than most stock pots so they would require multiple runs in order to distill through a single wash... This is where I am currently at... And while I don't mind doing multiple short runs it would be nice to be able to do a single large run again...

Don't be in too big of a hurry to buy... Take your time and do plenty of research and ask questions... We''d rather see you wait and become comfortable rather than spending money and potentially regretting your decisions later...

Good luck...

[Samohon]

+2... All great advice from the guy's farmerjohn... Do some research, choose a design, ask any questions you may have...

You will only build this still once and it will last you a lifetime... (until you make modifications that is)

Very addictive, but very rewarding... Have fun...

[LWTCS]

Yup most here would likely say that a 20 liter boiler would be the smallest desirable size..As Rad mentioned he runs a smaller rig but he wishes it was bigger...
I ran an 8 quart rig and felt like a slave that could not keep up with production demand from my crew of free loaders. Quick and easy runs are nice but the learning curve can make for some extra rank booze till you get your shit together.And the aggregate stilling time saved is enormous.

If you are limited on space, stealth and larger blocks of time. the smaller rig does have it's place...

Further down the road a smallish boiler can come in handy for experiments or infusions and so forth.

Choose wisely

[myles]

+ 1 with LWTCS. I suspect that most folks that do use smaller stills are charging it with neutral that they already made in a bigger still, and using it with botanicals for small batches of flavoured product.

You can off course make tripple distilled spirits, but even those are easier in an 8 to 12 litre still as opposed to a 5 litre one.

[farmerjohn]

Thank you all so much for taking the time for replying to my newbie questions,

Now I can see the options that I have and need to to a lot more reading.
Looks like I may not be able to get a larger unit for a while, but understand the pitfalls of the small ones.

I'll be lurking around and learning more,

thanks again,

john

[frozenthunderbolt]

Hey John they are loverly lookers but try going for somethign like the 10L on this page: http://www.alembics.co.nz/medium-distilling-units-3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow or bigger. Alterntively (much better) get one of the guys on this site to do a build for you once you know what you want. (with appologies to the mods for the above link - I am in no way affiliated to these guys; though they have nice eye candy )

[Odin]

Farmerjohn,

An Alembic is great to work with. Consider it to be a simple pot still, because that's what it is. The union shape head on top of the "bucket" allows for foaming. In the way that if your liquid foams, this foam does not directly enter the "elefantino"(bridge) and so your final destilate.

I completely agree with my "colleagues": try and go for a minimum capacity of 10 litres. Actually 15 or 20 litres would be better. Why? These things are hand made. Tollerances of how things fit are quite rudimentary. The smaller the "rig" you buy, the bigger the relative gaps are between bucket and head, for instance. And smaller units are less easy to controll in terms of how much you heat them.

Now, to get back to your questions. This kind of alembic has a reflux ratio of around 1,4. This means that some 40% of the gasses going up are reliquified (in the onion), drip down a bit and are re-heated by upgoing gasses. Thus making the destilate purer. Use the parent site (www. homedistiller.org, theory, pot still purity calculation) and you may find how fast things go (if you also know how much alc is in the drink you distill and if you know the wattage of energy you use to heat the alembic).

Now, depending on the size of alembic you buy, you can only put in just that amount of liquid. Let's say you have a 10 litre alembic (you can scale the numbers down or up from that), that means you can fill it to around 70%. So 7 litres of wine e.g.

My experience for making a brandy from wine: If you start with a wine of 11% and let's say you put in 7 litres. On your first run, you collect around 1/3 and you will end up with around 2,2 litres of 30% strong "low grade brandy". Don't drink it! Make another run and then a third. You will now have 6,6 litres of around 30%. Put that back in the alembic for your second run. Now distill slowly (around 90 watts per litre, so in this case at around 600 watts), discard the first 70 to 80 milliliters (foreshots, some heads). Collect until the alcohol percentage of what comes out drops to 50%. Then stop. What you have is probably a brandy (2,5 litres) of around 60%. Put it on oak chips (10 grams per litre), put in some honey (one teaspoon per litre), some sugar (one teaspoon per litre) and let it settle for 2 months. Filter and you have probably something pretty okay.

But ... read the forum on how to pot distill, how to make cuts and how to age. You need much more info, but also: experience. So start distilling AND reading and re-reading this forum, is my final advice.

Odin.

[Odin]

Farmerjohn, some more info. If you buy an alembic, beware. There are (at least in Europe) a lot of fraud suppliers. Don't know how it is in the America's. Make sure you get in contact with clients that already purchased at your intended alembic shop. And ... when delivered by postal services, always open everything and check everything before signing the receipt the delivery guys want you to sign. Otherwise you will end up with all kinds of guarantee issues.

Now, if you buy an alembic, you need to seal it before using it. The head is places on the bucket and might (will!) leak. Just chew on some (brown) bread and put that around where they join! Or, better still, buy a "water sealed" alembic. That's an alembic where the head is placed on the bucket as well, but the rim around the bucket is double, so you can pour some water in it. The (single) rim of the head will sit in this water and the water will prevend gasses from escaping.

But if you really want an easy way into distilling small amounts, why not start with a table top distiller like a Mr Distiller or smartstill? Easier to operate and a great way to start learning how to distill!

Odin.

[Husker]

I have an alembic from these folks. http://www.copper-alembic.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow Expensive, but made a HELL of a nice still. This is the one I have (including the refining lentil) http://www.copper-alembic.com/products_ ... 91&lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow I was thinking the price dropped a lot, until I realized it was in euro, and not USD, lol.

I also had them add the port for the screw in thermometer, and I really love that therm. It is very short, and not any digital thing, but it seems to be very stable, and gives a damn good indication to what ABV is running.

H.

[farmerjohn]

Hey John they are loverly lookers but try going for somethign like the 10L on this page: http://www.alembics.co.nz/medium-distilling-units-3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow or bigger. Alterntively (much better) get one of the guys on this site to do a build for you once you know what you want. (with appologies to the mods for the above link - I am in no way affiliated to these guys; though they have nice eye candy )

Thanks for that frozenthunderboltthe reason I was originally thinking small size was price of course. Now I found a 10L on auction here for 100USD under retail. Unfortunatley I'm not in the position to buy a larger alembic now, have to save up. They are beauties though eh?

Odin thanks much for the detailed info on how alembics work, and the primer on brandies is excellent that really, really helps. I'm sold on one but I really need the theory study. Any reason why they have to be sealed with rye flour vs. white flour? just wondering. I'm in the land of the rising bequerel/millisievert by the way. There is one company here that seems to be an importer of the previously mentioned dealers. But being that they kind of push a small pot and not mention any of the drawbacks makes me wary.

Husker I will be going for one with a built in thermometer, thanks for the tip!

Found some really nice "essential oil" distillation units but they're in the multi-thousand USD range.
guess I have to throw out the, I'm not affilliated with this company thingy, which I'm not
though you guys would be interested in seeing them http://www.tokyoss.co.jp/herb.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

thanks,

john

Thanks again,

john

[dakotasnake]

hi and welcome, if your a farmer you should have acceass to milking eguipment somewhere in your area. i to am a farmer and use what i have handy, i converted a cream can { stanless steel ] into a boiler, had some 1'' copper pipe and bought 3/8 copper tubing and silver solder and a few elbows and connectors and have a still im very happy with for around $30 us. just use your resourses, do your research and you can put one together in a few hrs. to me the '' do it yourself '' part is half the fun.

[Odin]

Farmerjohn, brown or white bread to use for preventing the gasses to get out ... I really would not know why. Over here (or at least in the south of Europe), everybody is high on using brown bread. Since a few months ago, I only had some white bread to chew on, that is what I used. Worked just fine for me. Enjoy your weekend! Odin.

[Odin]

I have an alembic from these folks. http://www.copper-alembic.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow Expensive, but made a HELL of a nice still. This is the one I have (including the refining lentil) http://www.copper-alembic.com/products_ ... 91&lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow I was thinking the price dropped a lot, until I realized it was in euro, and not USD, lol.

I also had them add the port for the screw in thermometer, and I really love that therm. It is very short, and not any digital thing, but it seems to be very stable, and gives a damn good indication to what ABV is running.

H.

Husker, how does working with the "lentille" go? Does it give you a much higher alc percentage? In such a way that you do not even to distill a second time? Curious! Odin.

[Husker]

Husker, how does working with the "lentille" go? Does it give you a much higher alc percentage? In such a way that you do not even to distill a second time? Curious! Odin.

The lentil comes on and off. Yes it does improve the ABV. Usually i have not used it. I am pretty set in my ways. I do 2 runs.

H.

[LWTCS]

That was the inspiration for the "Dog Dish" Condenser/lentille. Mine boosted 3-4 percentage points.... The game breaker of course was putting a cap on the dish and turning it into a jacket that could be pressurized.

[Antler24]

I know you want eye candy, I'd love to have an alembic still as well. I'd recommend you build still yourself, it's not that hard at all and you could build one for pretty cheap. Even where I live copper prices is through the roof, especially anything over 3/4", it's uncommon. I have my build (15.5 Gallon pot still) narrowed down to about $250. With the money saved you could buy the 0.7l still to sit on a coffee table or shelf for decoration, still have your eye candy!