Electric Keg Boiler

[acetate]

Now that I have finally fixed my condenser problems with a longer condenser held up with some scrubbers I have moved on to improving my boiler. I currently run a 20 gallon pot with propane heat. I decided to switch to the electric keg to allow boiling with the garage door closed and to remove the dough step from setup and cleanup.

I was able to find a craigslist keg by posting a want ad. In Seattle, the land of micro brews, nearly everyone has some old keg in their garage since I got about 20 responses to my ad. I was planning to follow the weld-free keg post on this site but then my wife met a welder the day after I bought the keg. He only wanted $50 to put the 1" half coupling in so I went that route. Because my still has a male threaded boiler connection I couldn't get the parts from Brewhaus but found some sanitary supply house to sell me 2" tri-clamp to female NPT thread and a tri clamp. For heat I went with a 3500W water heater element and for heat control I just use a hi amp toggle to cut between 120V and 240V. After cleaning the keg and still with vinegar and water (the still just went through the condenser mod) I fired it up with water in the boiler. The 240V heated it up nice and quick and I switched over to 120V. Turns out the ~800W from the 3500W element @ 120V is not enough to keep my still spitting out water. But when I ran at 240V the condenser was doing its job (success!) but I was getting mostly spurts out of the collection tube. So it appears I needed more heat (and insulation) and I needed to read about spurts. I bought some 1/8" duct insulation and a 4500W element. I only got enough insulation for a single wrap around the body and top. After reading about spurts I decided it was a flooded column and just decided to switch to 120V a bit earlier. I tried all of that on a new run of water and this time I could at least got distillate out at 120V. But it was only about 1L/hr with no reflux so that isn't exactly what I would call sufficient. But I still had the spurts of distillate out of the collection tube. I did not have spurts on my previous boiler. Finally to my questions:


How much insulation do folks use? I went with the thin stuff because I was afraid I would poke a hole in the thicker stuff during cleaning.

What the hell is with the spurting? I tried using dish soap to check for leaks while the still was running but it just turns to suds on every joint even the absolutely solid ones, I assume due to the heat? This thing is a litttle to big to fit in the tub. I am going to fill the whole setup rig with water today and see if I get any leaks. This is what I did when I first got it and it all tested out aok but maybe the still mod caused some new problems. The leak theory doesn't make much sense since my condenser is open to the air, unless I am not getting the leak theory. Any other ideas?

I only post my problems here but the close friends and fam love the results of the hobby and UJSM is awesome. Thanks for a great board.

[DestructoMutt]

check out the information in the columns section.

[rad14701]

Don't be overly concerned with any of the issues you've expressed during your water run... Everything may fall in line just fine when you run a wash through the still as you have it now... Don't bother with any modifications or more heat until you see what a decent wash does... Surging should be less or non-existent... 800W should be enough heat... You may be surprised to find that you got it right the first time... If not, THEN do one modification at a time...

Good luck...

[HookLine]

How much insulation do folks use? I went with the thin stuff because I was afraid I would poke a hole in the thicker stuff during cleaning.

For the boiler I use two layers of foil backed, bubble wrap, building insulation. And for the column, some thick foam pipe insulation.

http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s197 ... lation.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s197 ... loseup.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s197 ... lation.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

What the hell is with the spurting?

Probably just due to it being a plain water run. Ethanol behaves differently.

Also, using soap bubbles to find leaks won't work on a hot still. Best thing is to just set it up fully, and fill it with water, like you did first time around.

[acetate]

Thanks guys. I will see what I can find to beef up the insulation a little. I was going to give my next batch of UJSM a run tonight but got sick. I will siphon off and run it tomorrow. Next up is my first cooked mash (rye).

Hookline, your rigs always look so friggin perfect. The artisan of home distillers.

[bndfishing]

If you are in or around Seattle, google Ferguson Enterprises, Seattle, Wa they are a great supplier of plumbing supplies and have all the pipe insulation you need. They are also a great source for hard to find copper fittings and big copper pipe.

[HookLine]

Hookline, your rigs always look so friggin perfect. The artisan of home distillers.

It is all in how you light it when you take the pic.

(I can't take credit for the stainless welding, that was done by a real pro who does nothing but stainless welds all day for the last 15 years, and he did a great job.)

[acetate]

Ferguson's is awesome. It was the only place in the city I could find 2" pipe insulation. After stumbling around in the store for a while I plan on buying most of parts from there.

The new boiler (and condenser) runs like a champ with alcohol instead of water.

[Lagerman64]

Would it be beneficial to insulate everything possible on my electric pot still w/doubler (thumper)? I could see where it could be advantageous for temperature control.

[pumpman]

So when I build my keg still I don't need a controler? I can heat up on a 240v 3500w ellament and then cut the power down to 110v?

[HookLine]

Yes, but with a 3500 w element the power at 110 volts will probably be a bit low for decent pot stilling. Half the voltage gives quarter the power. So that element will drop to around 875 w. You probably need around 1100-1200 w for good pot stilling. So if you can get a 4000-5000 w element it will work fine. Or just get a controller for the 3500 w. Or use two elements. Say a 2400 w, and 1200 w. Boil up with both, and do the main run with the 1200 w

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3342

[acetate]

I started out with the intention of using the pintoshine controller but realized I it seemed to be more hassle and failure points than it was worth. Mouser carries 30A 240V DPDT toggles for $22.

So today I racked my first cooked mash (Rye) into my keg, got the everything all setup, and fired it up. Within the first 5 minutes there were two loud snaps. I popped the column off and smoke comes pouring out of the keg. I gave a fairly conservative rack and stayed way off the lees. Is it required to clear a cooked mash before using in an electric boiler? The smell of burnt element is fairly strong can I just change out the element and give another run? Or is this mash done for and start over?

[rad14701]

So today I racked my first cooked mash (Rye) into my keg, got the everything all setup, and fired it up. Within the first 5 minutes there were two loud snaps. I popped the column off and smoke comes pouring out of the keg. I gave a fairly conservative rack and stayed way off the lees. Is it required to clear a cooked mash before using in an electric boiler? The smell of burnt element is fairly strong can I just change out the element and give another run? Or is this mash done for and start over?

The first thing you need to do is figure out how you managed to fry the element... You either pushed more power to it than it could handle, it wasn't fully covered by wash, or was defective... As for the wash, it's hard to say what may have been released it but considering how these elements are designed for potable water it's unlikely that anything harmful went into the wash that won't be removed during the distillation process... If it wasn't a huge boiler charge I'd probably err to the side of caution and dump it but it may be okay... It usually isn't recommended that you drink the spirits from your first run anyway...

[acetate]

This isn't my first run on this still. It is nice and clean. Yesterday I ran a UJSM wash in the keg boiler and all things went well. It took about 5 total hours for a 10Gal wash and I got about 3L of finished 80 proof sugar head whiskey. Today I racked the rye (my first cooked mash), which had fermented out in about 36 hours, and I got the burn out problem. I was able to tip the keg on the side and replace the element with my 3500W element and that blew out as well. So that blew the defective element idea which I was really hoping for. I tested the lugs for the heater element and it is testing at a steady 240V. I am guessing the wash just had too much junk in it. To clear a wash I just rack it off the lees and let it set for a couple weeks?

You can't really push too much power to an element can you? Amp draw is a function of the element. Unless you mean hooking a 120V element up to 240V and I know that didn't happen.

[rad14701]

acetate, how much wash is there above the element - several inches minimum...???

Major bummer that you blew yet another element... Thankfully, they don't break the bank... I've never heard of solids blowing an element, just scorching...

[acetate]

There was about 9 Gal of wash in the 15 Gal keg and the element is right at the bottom. So there were many inches (maybe 12") over the element. Not a lot of junk came out when I dumped it out either. The wash smells horrible. I hate to throw away a wash that was prepared with 20 lbs of Rye but I don't see this turning into something worth drinking. I am stumped on what to do next time other than clear it first.

[rad14701]

I'd save the wash, run it, and keep it separate from your other spirits... Worst case scenario, it'll make good cleaning solvent...

You definitely need to determine the cause of the failures, however... If you just started using the controller then it might be suspect at this point... I'm not familiar with that controller so I can't comment on whether it might be possible to wire it incorrectly...

EDIT

Just re-read and noticed that you're running straight 240V without a controller...

[eternalfrost]

i use a 15.5 gallon keg with 5500W electric inside. as long as you settle washes before hand it works great. if you are not careful, lots of solids in the wort till cause it to boil over and puke.

other then that i have loved my insulated boiler.

insulation basically comes down to what you are loosing to the environment. the more youe loose the more you have to put in. especially in the final spirit run.

[pumpman]

Yeah it sounds like you have wiring problem mayby in your toggle set up.

[acetate]

I stopped by the local hardware store and got a new 4500W element and popped it in and wired it up. I racked my latest UJSM into the boiler and fired it up. Everything is running super smooth like nothing ever happened. I believe my problems resulted from a bad a lauter of the all grain wort. I didn't have any straining bags or proper equipment and i think i just ended up with so many bits and stuff in the wort that it killed both elements. A quick refresher from How To Brew was a big help. I am setting up a proper lauter tun now.

[Lagerman64]

My 7.5 gallon (28l) pot still utilizes a 1500w/110v element, voltage is regulated by a dimmer switch. Is this inefficient, should I go for a higher wattage and different controller? My current configuration seems to work. I replaced an electric water heater with an inline tank that works off the my boiler, so I have an unsed 220v line I could add an outlet to. Any input on this?

[rad14701]

My 7.5 gallon (28l) pot still utilizes a 1500w/110v element, voltage is regulated by a dimmer switch. Is this inefficient, should I go for a higher wattage and different controller? My current configuration seems to work. I replaced an electric water heater with an inline tank that works off the my boiler, so I have an unsed 220v line I could add an outlet to. Any input on this?

If you can deal with the time it takes to do a run and everything is coming off nicely, the 1500W is fine... However, if you want to run faster you could add a second element for heat up and/or the full run and use the one on the controller to regulate the temperature... If you go with 220v you'll need a different controller and a bigger element, unless you run straight mains to the bigger element... You don't need fine control with a pot still but if you build a reflux column it'll be required...