For the mash recipes calling for rainwater, be careful

Little or nothing to do with distillation.

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drumkiller
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For the mash recipes calling for rainwater, be careful

Post by drumkiller »

I've noticed some recipes, and some distillers, recommend rainwater for their mashes/washes. Be careful out there, you may be breaking the law at least in Colorado :-)
If the gov't can get this passed, then rainwater may again be legal to collect. HAHA

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/15 ... etail.html

All i can say is wow, just wow!


TheDenverChannel.com
Senators Want To Let Residents Collect Rainwater
Water Interests Concerned By Proposal

POSTED: 10:29 am MST February 8, 2008
UPDATED: 10:35 am MST February 8, 2008
DENVER -- Ever collected rainwater in a bucket to water the garden? There's a law about that in Colorado and, technically, it says you can't.

A state senator from Denver wants to allow homeowners to collect water that drains off up roofs up to 3,000 square feet so ranchers and farmers could use it to water livestock and metro area residents could use it to water their lawns and gardens.

Democratic Sen. Chris Romer said the bill, which had its first hearing Thursday, could also be used to fight fires and eliminate the need for more dams and reservoirs by providing "microstorage" of water across the state. However, water interests, including Denver Water, are concerned about the proposal, and Romer asked members of the Senate Agriculture, Natural Resources & Energy Committee for another week to make some changes before voting on the bill.

"We shouldn't let 100 years of tradition and law avoid the common sense solution," said Romer, who wants to install a cistern at the house he's building in Denver.

Colorado's water law doesn't specifically talk about buckets or cisterns, but the principle of prior appropriation applies. That means water, including whatever falls from the sky and off your roof, must be allowed to flow downstream to those who have a legal right to use it.

"When it's in the sky it's fine. But as soon it hits the ground, or on the way to the ground, that's where it kind of changes a little," said Doug Kemper, executive director of the Colorado Water Congress.

Some of the water, of course, gets soaked up by the ground and never makes it to streams. However, if a lot of people in the Denver area, for example, starting catching and saving water that fell on their homes, Kemper said it could lower the amount of water flowing in the South Platte River to farmers on the state's plains and beyond. Since most of the state's rivers and streams have more water rights than water, often people with newer rights don't get all the water they're entitled to, Kemper said.

Chris Piper, a water resource engineer for Denver Water, said the agency is open to working with Romer since the proposal has the potential to offset the need for expensive, large-scale water projects. The agency has suggested limiting the number of houses in the Denver area that would participate for a set time so the amount of water lost to the streams could be measured. Denver Water would have to make up for any decrease but Romer said he would be willing to pay extra to make up for that use because he would still be using less water from the tap.

Sen. Jim Isgar, D-Hesperus, said lawmakers could also limit the proposal to sparsely populated areas, where there is no municipal water supply.

Kemper said he's never heard of anyone actually getting in trouble for having a bucket and collecting water. It would be up to the state engineer, who keeps track of the use of the state's water, to decide. A message to his office wasn't immediately returned.

There's also the gray area of directing gutter pipe water toward the tomatoes or collecting extra water in the shower with a bucket.

Kemper admits he's one of many people who direct downspouts across the lawn, which apparently doesn't violate the law since it's just directing, not stopping, the water. The shower question, which he said came up a lot in the 2002 drought, is more tricky because another water principle comes into play.

With few exceptions, water law says you can only use water once and then you have to let it go. So Kemper said some people say it's OK to leave a bucket in the shower as you wait to regulate the water temperature because that's like filling it up at the tap. Others think that collecting water while you're in the shower is wrong because the water has already been used once, to wash, and should go down the drain.

And what about water that ends up collecting in your flower box?

"At some point it just gets silly," Kemper said.


Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
punkin
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Post by punkin »

All new residential buildings over here in my area (country NSW) MUST have rainwater collection tanks.

There's council rebates in most places too.
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Post by CoopsOz »

punkin wrote:There's council rebates in most places too.
Yeah, so now your on the list. Give the bastards a couple more years and they will have tank readers so they can charge you for water you collect. If it were me, I'd skip the rebate. Maybe I'm just to cynical.
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yeh

Post by Uncle Jesse »

I can see it now, two moonshiners sitting in a jail cell.

Moonshiner 1: What're ya in fer?

Moonshiner 2: Stillin' of course.

Moonshiner 1: Damn that's too bad. Did they get yer still?

Moonshiner 2: Yep, shore did. What're you in fer?

Moonshiner 1: Moonshinin'...with a special circumstance of usin' rain water.

Moonshiner 2: Rain water?! Yer a crazy fool fella and you're goin' away for a long time.
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punkin
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Post by punkin »

CoopsOz wrote:
punkin wrote:There's council rebates in most places too.
Yeah, so now your on the list. Give the bastards a couple more years and they will have tank readers so they can charge you for water you collect. If it were me, I'd skip the rebate. Maybe I'm just to cynical.
I've skipped the rebate on the first one and i'll be skipping on the next one too :wink:
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Post by tracker0945 »

I may be a bit cynical but the reason they probably want the water to run back into the river is so that they can charge you to pump it back out for you again.
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Post by Husker »

tracker0945 wrote:I may be a bit cynical but the reason they probably want the water to run back into the river is so that they can charge you to pump it back out for you again.
Cheers.
In the US west, water rights are shootin offenses.

The big reason they get so anal about it in CO, is because they get sued from NE, KS, IA, MO and about every other state downstream. CO is notorious for sucking every drop of water out of some of the rivers. However, this "illegal to capture rain water", is just way the hell over the limit of logic.

H.
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Post by rad14701 »

Any bureaucratic bastard that tried telling me what I can and cannot do with natural rainwater that falls on my property would end up with a bullet in their head... The water that falls on ones property is supposed to be protected by same laws that protect your mineral rights... I suppose they'll tell us we can't breathe the air in our own homes either and force us to get piped in air...

Now, just to show that my opinion isn't knee-jerk reaction, I do understand why they think they can make their claim... In an area where there is a water and sewer system the municipality thinks it will be losing money because most of them charge for both water and sewer based on water meter readings... All that "free" water loses them money, or so they think... Actually, it's a wash, so to speak... They didn't have to pay to acquire, process, or deliver that water so those savings would offset the cost of processing any waste water the use may result in...

Here is a good one... The property owners on a street in Erie, PA just received bills from the city for $13,500.25 because the city ran water lines across their property... That's without even offering to run feed lines to each of those dwellings... The owner has to cover those costs as well if they want municipal water...

Makes one wonder "Where's my gun?"...
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Post by Butch50 »

Self edited to remove political references.
Last edited by Butch50 on Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by HookLine »

Don't wanna rain on anyone's parade here, and I ain't taking sides, but can we keep the political stuff off this forum.

No politics is one of Uncle Jesse's rules.

We got a friendly little community going here, just for distilling, let's not blow it by dragging all that other stuff in.

There is plenty of other places you can talk about it if you want.

Just asking.

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Post by rad14701 »

Regardless of where everyone moves to, I'm confused as to why people choose to live all piled on top of each other... They over-populate an area and then complain... You would have thought that we Americans, who self-proclaim ourselves as being the most bad-assed, wealthiest, smartest nation on the planet, would have brains enough to not make the same mistakes as the countries we fled from for the exact same reasons over the years... Just goes to show that the more things change, the more they remain the same...

The whole "proud to be an American" phrase is for people too ignorant to know any better... I say "ignorant" instead of "stupid" because ignorance merely means ill-informed or uneducated whereas stupid implies the inability to learn... Hmmm... Maybe I did use the wrong word there... Class dismissed...
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yep

Post by Uncle Jesse »

no politics. don't even start. I don't care if you're lefty or righty or what you care about say about politics and I don't want to know.

keep it friendly. trust me if we start talking politics you'll all hate me first. there's just no need. take it to one of the political or talk show sites where people mistake namecalling and ad hominem for intelligent conversation.
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rad14701
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Post by rad14701 »

Good point, Uncle Jessie... There are plenty of forums out there better suited for social and political topics... These forums are better left as a place to get away from such issues... I don't allow it in my forums and, personally, should have known better than to fuel any fires here... :oops:
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Post by theholymackerel »

I'm not gonna talk politics. I'm gonna talk environment.

The water laws out here in the Rocky Mountains and Desert Southwest don't make sense to folks that live in the Pacific North West, the South, or New England. Yall's biggest water worry is how to get it to go away when there is too much.

Here in the Rocky Mountains and the Desert Southwest we average a few scant inches of precipitation a year. The average is 6 inches a year where I live. Most of the the precipitation is in the form of snowfall in the mountains, and the major source of water is run-off.

When and where the major, or only source of water is run-off it must be protected. Laws here aren't government enforced robbery. The water laws here came about to protect average folk. We've had a history of asshats buyin' land upstream and stoppin' the flow and not carin' who suffers from lack of water or polution. Cuttin' off water (when it's the ONLY water) is as bad as starvin' someone.








Like I said earlier most Americans won't understand the environment here and our stance on water rights, but I bet most Aussies would understand. Especially yall that live away from the coast and away from towns. I bet yall would never send someone lost away without directions and water for their vehicle and water for their canteens... even if ya didn't like the look of 'em. We wouldn't either.
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Post by HookLine »

rad14701 wrote:These forums are better left as a place to get away from such issues
That is my view.
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Post by punkin »

I have a reasonable understanding HMack about why the laws there are the way they are and how long they probably been that way, that i didn't worry about replying to all the greenie stuff before.
As kids we grew up with the american westerns and we know the trouble that was portrayed over these issues. (also the differences tween cattle men and sheep men :lol: :lol: )

The laws have recently been strengthened over here to highlight the govts stake in runoff and rain water. Including the process's farmers have to go to (licences and such) in order to catch and store it.

Some of the bigger cotton farms in western NSW are talking about massive amounts of water use and huge storage dams. The say when the boys start the pumps, the river flows backwards round them parts, so yes, we are very aware of the usage issues you're talking about.

Thjer is now more push for natural flows and residual enviromental flows in most of our rivers (possibly too late for some parts) and some rivers (round the snowy especially) are coming back to health that hasn't been seen for 50 years.






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water

Post by Uncle Jesse »

Water is a big issue here too. There just isn't enough for Southern California. It's been a divisive issue my entire life and people even talked about splitting California into 2 or even 3 states over such things. Mono lake is a huge contention and has been for decades. "Save Mono Lake!" is the rallying cry. Los Angeles finally had to agree to leave enough water to keep the lake at a certain level.

Also 1/5 of the Colorado River is diverted to the Imperial Valley where something like 150,000 people live, but it's a huge farming area, especially for winter produce. It's literally in a desert area where nothing would grow without the irrigation. Any lettuce we buy in the winter, for instance, probably comes from there.

Fortunately this year we're well over normal snowfall.
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Post by big worm »

we are in a severe drought here as well in the south east, most lakes are down 14' or better. atlanta was down to a two month supply of water in the summer. we have had some rain but not nearly enough to break the drought tho. lets hope for rain
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Post by Butch50 »

I have built several water and wastewater treatment plants. It is mind boggling how much water a city can use in one day - 20 to 50 million gallons a day is not unusual for a small city.

Water is on the same path as oil - the cheap and easily avaialbe water has already been used and we are entering a period now where obtaining water is more difficult and more expensive. Still we waste water at a profligate pace.

The reckoning will come, not sure when, but there will come a time when it will be an issue much the way oil is now. Texas wen through a disastrous drought in the 50's. At the time it only had a couple of man made lakes. Texas only has one natural lake in the entire state. As a consequence of that drought the State went on a massive dam building project and built lakes and lakes and more lakes. I think Texas may have impounded more water than any other State.

Recently we went through a 3 year drought that nearly dried up several of those lakes, many cities were on water rationing. Had it not been for the forward thinking of those folks in the 50's we would have been in a world of hurt. As it is the population has grown so much, and water usage has increase so much that we need more lakes than ever. However it is near impossible to build a lake now due to the many layers of bureacracy and environmental restrictions.

We could simply start rationing water without waiting for droughts and probably be OK for another decade or so - or limit the number of people allowed to live here - something will have to give in about 10 years one way or another.

LA and Phoenix and LV are three examples of populations exceeding the locally available water supply and causing real problems for people living far away as they take water from their areas. It is an interesting thing to watch those cities and see how they fare over time.
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Post by HookLine »

Looks like the longest, worst and most widespread drought in Australia's history is breaking. There has been solid rains in most of the drought regions over the last few weeks, to the point where serious flooding has ocurred.

The drought hasn't affected me. I am in the tropical north, and we are right in the middle of the reliable annual monsoon. Our dams and tanks get filled every year, without fail. It is bucketing down here as I type, we've had about 6" over the last 48 hours. The water table has broken the surface and most of my block is now a swamp, under several inches of water, and the night time frog symphony is wonderful.
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well

Post by Uncle Jesse »

I heard a Los Angeles water official on the radio a few weeks back and he said in the last 10 years L.A. has added 4 million people to the basin but hasn't increased it's water use thanks to incentives and such for water conservation. Water restriction in faucets and so on. A laudable accomplishment but how long can it be sustained before they start using more water?

The California Aqueduct moves huge volumes of water from the North State all the way through the Central Valley and south to the "Grapevine" mountains which separate the Los Angeles basin from the Central Valley. Huge pumps push the water over the hills and toward swimming pools in Los Angeles.
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Post by blanikdog »

Politics or not, this thread is bloody interesting. if not insightful.

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Post by shadylane »

Rain water in my mash may be breaking the law :?: Hot Damn, another law I can get away with breaking. :D
minime
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What a visual

Post by minime »

Been a long, long time since I've been in that environment. Thanks for bring back some memories I'm very fond of!

HookLine wrote:The water table has broken the surface and most of my block is now a swamp, under several inches of water, and the night time frog symphony is wonderful.
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Post by HookLine »

Meet one of my closest neighbours.

You can hear him here. Usually there are several going at once, and it is an impressive sound, especially when they get into the metal downpipes from the roof.
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