Special K Vodka

[Odin]

Hi guys (and girls),

I have been making vodka for a while now. Liked the neutrality Birdwatcher's gave me, but I also learned that a good neutral & a good vodka are not the same per definition. I like my vodka neutral, but some mouthfeel should be there. Preferably relating to it's normal contribuants: potatoes or wheat.

Last All Bran I made, didn't turn out great (fermentation problems), so I decided to fractionate it. I took a pretty narrow hearts cut ... and it came very close to what I am looking for in a vodka. Some grainy mouthfeel. Pretty neutral after that.

So I decided to take it one step further and replace the All Bran with Kellog's Special K. Special K has more rice in it as compared to All Bran. In general it has less taste. Not so good for faux whiskey making, but better for vodka's. Or, well, that is at least the theory.

This is what I did:
- I took 3 cups of Special K;
- crushed them;
- put them in the fermenter (30 liters);
- put 4.5 kilo's of sugar on top;
- poured in 5 liters of boiling water;
- stirred, dissolved sugar, etc.;
- topped of with cold water to a total of 27 liters;
- Pitched 120 grams of dried, granulated baker's yeast;
- Should (after racking) give me a potential 25 liters beer at 11 to 12% abv.

It is currently fermenting at 22 degrees centigrade, without heaterbelt or fish tank heater. Bubbling away nicely. Pretty odourless, is what I can say for now.

I tried to minimize the amount of Special K, in order to get taste down to a minimum. Bought a special TopVit kinda Special K, since it had twice the amount of vitamins in it, compared tot the normal Kellogs version.

Aim: making a near neutral vodka, that does signal off it's grain herritage. If okay, it will be my basis for gin & lemonchello as well.

Odin.

[scurvy_dan]

Very Kewl!

I saw your reply in the All Bran thread and did a quick search for Special K and found this new thread. I am interested in your results.

I have done grain recipes with rice and have been happy but...I am always looking for a lower cost/time way to make a good vodka wash. Buying all the nutrients and additives makes the washes non-cost effective (still fun though ). I always have cereal and bread crusts (instant mashed potatoes anyone) in the house so why not try something one degree off of what is tried and true, nice job. I currently have 2 fermenters of 'Birdwatchers' clearing and another 2 fermenting. I really want to try something like All Bran but I love the taste of a clean rice vodka so you have peaked my interest.

You have kept the recipe simple so I am curious about how your fermentation progesses. I would have added OJ or lemon juice to lower the PH and help with inversion but it seems like things are going nicely.

Very interested in your results!

[Husker]

I am pretty interested in these results also. I would image that Spec-K would make a fine grain based vodka, with good underlying hints of grain, and good mouth feel.

[rad14701]

The only thing to remember with Special K and many other cereals is that they are not as fortified as All Bran which means they don't contain the same level of vitamins and minerals... Taking that fact into account you may need to experiment with the volume of cereal used and/or supplement those lacking fortifications... But we love experimenting...

[Braz]

The only thing to remember with Special K and many other cereals is that they are not as fortified as All Bran which means they don't contain the same level of vitamins and minerals...

But Odin said:

Bought a special TopVit kinda Special K, since it had twice the amount of vitamins in it, compared tot the normal Kellogs version.

Never heard of this "TopVit" variety - maybe it is a European thing. My thought is that Special K costs about double what generic (Aldi, Meijer brand) costs for basically the same thing. And, you can always add a vitamin tablet if you want even more good stuff.

[Odin]

@Rad: I bought a version that was labeled for a supermarket named ""Plus". It is made by TopVit. The reason for buying it is it has twice the amount of vits & mins in it, compared to the real Special K from Kellog's. And it costs only half the money. I will post contents & would like you to ask me to give me your thoughts.

@Braz: Yeah, I think that is a good suggestion. Due to the amounts of vits&mins in the brand I could find, I did not put in a vitamin tablet. I dit put in a few grams of generic yeast nutrients though. Just to be sure.

@Husker: That is exactly what I am after, Husker!

@Dan: I thought about that, puting the lemon juice in. Decided not to do it, because I wanted to test something else. My All Bran fermentations have been very slow. Put in a lot of All Bran. With this recipe it is the other way around. Since I am after a vodka with limited mouth feel of grains, I am after as little Special K as possible.That's why I was so happy to find they were so well fortified (waiting for Rad's appraisal there!).

First results on fermenation. It is still going on. Without heater at 21 degrees centigrade. Bubbling along fine. Not in a hurry but consistently. Much faster than the All Bran I over ... "all branned". So I am guessing that more cereals have an impact on sweetness to the extend that fermentation can be hindered.

A bit more on why no lemon. I want, if this gets to be a succes, to use a small part of backset for the next gen. For melting / inverting sugar. For getting a better PH. For getting a more consistent taste profile. It might up taste a bit. Hopefully not too much.

I think first distilling results will be in this weekend.

Here more about content & fortification per 100 gram:
15.3 mg Niacene
8.5 mg Vit E
5.1 mg Pantotheen accid (some Vit B I think) (Pantothenic acid)
1.7 mg B6
1.4 mg B2
1.2 mg B1
170,0 Mg (micro instead of milli?) Folium accid (also a B vit I think): Follic Accid
0,9 Mg (micro?) B12

Made of 69% rice grece (?), 8% full fibre wheat, etc.

Waiting for your feedback!

Odin.

Edit: all the stated fortifications also have a "daily % required". For pretty much all of them 100 grams is between 79% and 100% of your daily requirements. with other Special K (alikes) these percentages were mostly between 40% and 50%. Hope that helps.

Edit: for a better translation from Dutch vits to American.

Edit: I thought Pantothenic acid was vit C. If not, that is an ingrediënt that's missing.

[Samohon]

When I want vodka for infusions with other ingredients I use BW and it never fails. But Rad's All-Bran recipe gives me a drinking vodka with a great mouth feel, I tend to call it my premium recipe. My brother-in-law, who is Ukrainian, says that the all-bran vodka is the best he has tasted.
I think that the nutrient value of the grain used is paramount here, never tried Special K so I think it calls for a test batch....

I'll keep you posted... Thanks Odin, very interesting...

[Odin]

Sam,

That's what put me into this direction. Together with a PM I got from Pooyan. I should not forget to mention him!!! Wouldn't do justice otherwise. Made me some All Bran and liked it as a soft style wheat whiskey. Made me some Kellog's Special K half a year ago, and that turned out fine as well, as an even softer style wheat whiskey (funny thing was: after striprun and no cuts ... I sipped and thought: am I drinking Sake here? Cuts got rid of that).

Last month my All Bran failed. I fractionated it and was very impressed with the mouthfeel. Remembered my Special K whiskey experiment, got feedback from Pooyan (and an intro to the TopVit brand) and decided to give it a go. With the All Bran the taste was still quite present in the vodka, with this I am aiming for a bit more neutral yet.

Using BW for neutrals makes perfect sence to me! For a Dutch style gin (aulde geneva), some grain is required. And in the original way lemonchello was made, a grain based neutral (or allmost neutral) was used. That is why I am interested in this Special K Voddy as well!

I will keep you posted!

Odin.

[rad14701]

That TopVit Special K sounds like it would be well suited for making a clean wash due to the fortifications... As I mentioned previously, it's just a matter of determineing the proportions so you get the most bang for your buck when making good neutrals...

My two All Bran washes with 3/8 cup per gallon (4 liters) have finally stopped bubbling and I should be runnning them off this week... I'll be interested in seeing how much or how little flavor carries over... I'll probably strip in pot still mode and then reflux as this will end up as neutral spirits for Glug...

[Odin]

Rad,

Do you have any insight on the (lack of) Vitamine C that might be lacking in the fortification?

Odin.

[rad14701]

Rad,

Do you have any insight on the (lack of) Vitamine C that might be lacking in the fortification?

Odin.

Not a huge concern... Most all grain mashes are lacking in Vitamin C as well and they do just fine... See how things work out and you can always add some in on the next go round...

[Samohon]

Last month my All Bran failed. I fractionated it and was very impressed with the mouth-feel. Remembered my Special K whiskey experiment, got feedback from Pooyan (and an intro to the TopVit brand) and decided to give it a go. With the All Bran the taste was still quite present in the vodka, with this I am aiming for a bit more neutral yet.

The best discoveries in this hobby Odin, usually arrive by accident...
I put a couple on boxes on the shopping list for tomorrow Odin, I have 2 x 30L FB's free so I think I'll do a side by side comparison with Rads quantities from the all-bran recipe and your quantities here, each batch 20L. Distilling both separately of-coarse...

Noticed that Rad uses 1 cup AB to 1 gal(4L) of water, whilst you using 1 cup of SK to 2 1/2 gal (10L) of water. So nutrients are a big factor here...

I'll keep you all posted.

PS, thought I had distilled enough stock to last me through the winter, then Odin goes and gets the fires lit again...lol

[rad14701]

Noticed that Rad uses 1 cup AB to 1 gal(4L) of water, whilst you using 1 cup of SK to 2 1/2 gal (10L) of water. So nutrients are a big factor here...

Samohon, did you notice my post above where I have experimented with as little as 3/8 cup per gallon (4 liters)...??? I'm slow stripping some as I type this and will be combining it with another strip for a spirit run...

[Samohon]

Noticed that Rad uses 1 cup AB to 1 gal(4L) of water, whilst you using 1 cup of SK to 2 1/2 gal (10L) of water. So nutrients are a big factor here...

Samohon, did you notice my post above where I have experimented with as little as 3/8 cup per gallon (4 liters)...??? I'm slow stripping some as I type this and will be combining it with another strip for a spirit run...

Yeah, that was my next observation Rad, got me wondering how far we could take this method. And what about a mix of the 2 serials? Combining quantities of AB + SK for flavour profiles. I know it seems like a lot of work, but once the correct combo was achived for your particular taste, you have something that, IMO, is unique... Man it looks as if I'm gonna have a great winter experimenting with small 20L batches, its just the tastes that the AB gives either neutral or whiskey/bourbon, even if it is a sugarhead, its a lovely wee dram (as they say here)...

[Odin]

Rad, Sam,

I took Rad's experiments with less All Bran as a starting point with this very much fortificated Special K. Since vodka is the aim less (taste) is more. Dont know where my cup per 2.5 gallons compares to Rad's 3/8, but it should not be too far off. At least, that was the idea.

Sam, great you are helping the experiment further. More opinions & experiences makes for quicker learning.

Odin.

[rad14701]

Odin, your proportions are close enough to mine for government work...

I ran off 8 liters of 3/8 cup per gallon and 8 liters of All Bran and Ketchup... Sipping on a mix of the center 55% hearts of both right now... I ended up with a total of 1.8 liters from each run... I saved 400ml from each run for me and will reflux the rest and perhaps some feints to come up with one liter of 95% for Glug and keep whatever is left beyond that... I've got another liter of 65% sitting in the wings, just in case...

Sure feels good to have a small stash on hand after going a couple months without...

Now to get a couple more washes going...

[Odin]

Special K Vodka Wash in in day 5 now. Bubbling a bit slower. Tasting pretty sour already. Must be finished by the weekend!

[Odin]

... but it isn't. I am experiencing the same slow down (allmost shut down) as with All Bran of late. Just put in the fish tank heater to bring temp from 20 degrees to 26 to speed things up.

Odin.

[mash rookie]

I personally don’t care for wheat flavor in my whiskey. Not big on Sweetfeed for that reason and although Rad.s all bran was smooth I could still taste wheat even after double distilling.

I will try the Noodle wash again when I get a chance. Maybe a rice or potatoes vodka? I think the key is finding what flavor you like in a vodka.

Keep up the experiments Odin. As long as you provide the nutrients the yeast need it should always ferment out. Different base materials will produce different flavors.
MR

[Samohon]

Just put a 30L batch of Special K on today as per the recipe noted here... Pitched the yeast starter about 3 hours ago, its took off like a rocket...

I will put this batch through my VM straight off the bat, no stripping run... Nice slow neutral run...

I'll keep ya'll posted...

[Odin]

Sam, Mash,

I am doing the spirit run as we talk! Looking good! Smelling good! Tasting good, too!

Used 25% backset to start up gen. 2 of this recipe. 25 liters, 4.5 kilo's of sugar. Fish tank heater in at 26 degrees centigrade because my cereal washes seem to SLOW DOWN if temp is below 24 degrees. Dunno why ...

Anyhow, what comes out (96.5%) seems to be more neutral that All Bran. Now All Bran gave me a nice vodka. Good mouth feel. Does Special K does that too? I will find out.

For Flute Folk: this might be a recipe to go by. It does have less taste than All Bran. Giving a more neutral vodka for sure.

@Sam, the Kellog's special K has less vitamins. You might want to "up" these a bit as compared to my "TopVit" recipe.

Odin.

(sipping on some great Dutch Courage here!)

[Odin]

Hi guys,

First results on the spirit run of Special K Vodka. I just finished and watered it down to 38%. Normally, I would give the likker a day or 2 to settle, but I am just too curious. Now here are my findings ...

I tastes ... sweet. A bit creamy, actually. Good. Nice. Neutral ... but not quite neutral. How to explain? I will give it a try.

A vodka (or rather: neutral) made from a turbo yeast can have, well, sort of a stingy, allmost brandy like smell & odour. Might be the abundance of heads present & carying over.

A vodka made from Birdwatcher's is ... well, to my humble opinion, not a vodka. It is a great neutral, but something is missing to call it a vodka. The word "mouth feel" describes to me what is missing. Great recipe as a basis for essences or whatever, but not ... a vodka to me. Too neutral.

A vodka made from All Bran is great. Mouth feel, neutral, maybe a little kick of some grains on the background. If I would characterize this type a vodka in a pictionairy way, I would say. A vodka based on All Bran has got character, a "brown" sort -a earthly taste to it. Not much, and I am not trying to describe a whisky here, but as a vodka goes, All Bran has presence.

Now, my aim with Special K Vodka was to get somewhere in between BW and AB. More neutral than All Bran, more character than BW. I think Special K succeeded. It definitely has got a taste of its own. And you can taste some grains on the back ground, but it is more remote than with All Bran. It is much sweeter and maybe a bit more neutral too.

Does that make it a better vodka? I do not think so. It does make it a better neutral than All Bran based voddy, but it is quite sweet. Now, this might also be due to my fermentation stalling with some sugar left, but then again: sugar does not get over, usually, in distilling. Have to see what the next gen brings, after a full and dry fermentation.

Is it a better vodka than Birdwatchers? To my opinion it is, since it has more character. It actually is very pleasant to drink. Easy going. Allmost like a liqueure with added sugars (what I did nót do, just to be perfectly clear). It is just not as neutral as Birdwatchers. But neutral enough for essences or for gin making or for lemonchello.

Some final comments on stillin' this recipe. Heads turned out to be a relatively small faction. I normally discard like 23% as fores and heads. Now I only threw out like 15 to 16%. Hearts was fine, but taste started to come over maybe half way thru. With All Bran, I remember to have more neutrality until I got to the last 20% of the hearts cut. And allmost no tails by the way.

That is it for now. @Samohon, I am curious to learn from your experiences to come. And others as well, off course!

Let's find out if my findings are reproducable. And if the results others get with it give this recipe any credit to be adviced to use by others! (not a gramatically correct sentence, but I hope you get my point!)

Odin.

[OlympicMtDoo]

Hi Odin, Thinking about trying your Special K recipe, I like my vodka and a good neutral. You have described the different tastes pretty well, I can understand them as I have tried many of these same recipes. I am curious about one thing? do you always drink your vodka streight or do you mix it ? I usually mix and some of these neutrals tast quite different to me when mixed with the same thing, I find that some of my runs will taste great with OJ and others will mix better with Clamato Juice, etc. Any thoughts?

[Odin]

Hi Olympic,

Please go ahead & try! And let me know what you think of the recipe. One thing might be important. Eventhough I call this recipe Special K, I actually bought another brand with more nutrients added. If you by Special K you might want to compensate with some yeast nutrients.

I never drink my vodka mixed. Don't really like mixed stuff, so I drink it as a neutral by itself or use it as a basis for gin, so I cannot really help you, I am affraid. Still, I can imagine it having an effect!

Odin.

[Odin]

Update: gen 2 allmost finished. Will probably be distilled on Sunday. But when I look in the fermentor ... anxiety strikes. The strangest looking bubbles I ever saw. Big, really very big. And the smell? As if somebody vomited in it. And the really scarry bit? I know it was not me!

Hope this will turn out nice after distilling, but am becoming a bit sceptic (just like my wash?).

More results to come ...

Odin.

[Odin]

If only I could solve my fermentation problems. Changed my yeast, so who knows ...

Stripped my Special K wash on Sunday and fractionated it yesterday. Wash was about 10% with some 2% potential ABV left in the fermenter. Fermentation stopped, zo I ran it anyway. After fractionating & diluting It gave me a nice clear neutral. Again in taste & mouthfeel somewhere in between BW and All Bran vodka. I am currently macerating gin herbs in it to make a young Dutch geneva.

There sure is potential in this recipe, if I could solve my fermentation problems ...

Looking forward to hearing other experiences on this recipe.

Odin.

[yankeeclear]

Hi guys. I am long overdue for a neutral run. Tried BW last year but way too neutral for straight drinking. I ended up using it primarily for maceration (blueberry, strawberry) and Bloody Marys. I am leaning toward Rad's All Bran recipe but thought I'd check-in to see how the R&D is going on this one. Any updates?

[cooperville]

+1 YC i like the sound of this wash and will probably give it a go soon
has anyone else had good experiences with this wash
im not big on vodka but i will be trying some infusions out and liked the idea of this wash having a good mouth feel to it

[Odin]

Okay, an update. I think All Bran makes a nice light whiskey and an awesome vodka. Plenty a mouth feel: grainy. Some risidual tastes as well. I do NOT like BW as a vodka. A vodka = a neutral = a vodka = a neutral ... I know it is not so. Just try some Polish or Russian top shelve. There is always mouth feel and some taste left. Okay, I like a BW for maceration. It is a great recipe. But too neutral for my taste to drink on itsself. Just my taste.

Now about Special K. I think we can place it between All Bran and BW. It has a grainy mouth feel. But less taste than an All Bran.

Fermentation problems solved? Yes and no. I have slow fermentation problems with my Special K as well as with my All Bran. On the Dutch forum, we arrived at the following conclusion: both of these boxed breakfast cereals have preservatives (hope I use the right word!) in them. That don't go well with the yeast. That's why ferments are slow, on both recipes. In the US (or in other places) you may not have these problems. I know you buy these recipes in bigger boxes/sacks and not by definition from the Kellogs brand. And nobody else is having those problems, we are facing here.

So your choice is basically: how much taste / mouth feel do I want in my vodka? None? BW. Some? Special K. Some more? All Bran.

Let me know how you are progressing!

Odin.

[pounsfos]

starting a batch of this tomorrow
running my birdwatchers tomorrow so will love to "taste the difference"

should be good