First run-Corn Sugar wash

Sugar, and all about sugar washes. Where the primary ingredient is sugar, and other things are just used as nutrients.

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Down_Home52
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First run-Corn Sugar wash

Post by Down_Home52 »

Fermenting 15 gallons of my first ever wash. Used 30 pounds of corn sugar and 15 gallons water. Re-hydrated 6 ounces of Red Star yeast, SG was 1.075 and it took off like jack the bear. 7 days later and the bubbling has slowed to where there is no foam on top and SG is at 1.040. Has no sweet taste. The recipe I used did not call for any nutrients. I was used to my fruit wines finishing up at .990 to 1.000. What do I need to do to get it started or just wait?
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

Post by dieselduo »

what is the PH ? you could have had a PH crash. If it's too low add some oyster shells and it might pick back up
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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I have a wine ph kit but guess I need to get something else to test ph of the wash. Suggestion? Our water here is fairly hard with lots of lime deposits on bathroom fixtures. I did use tap water and aged it for several days to de-chlorinate. Since getting on the board to ask a question I have been binge reading other threads. As a last resort could I use this 15 gallon wash and add to it with a batch with proper nutrients if I can't jump start it? My fermenter has been at a constant 75 degrees.
Last edited by Down_Home52 on Tue May 17, 2016 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Down_Home52 wrote:...my first ever wash...30 pounds of corn sugar and 15 gallons water....SG (OG) was 1.075 and it...has slowed...and SG (FG) is at 1.040...did not...(use)...any nutrients. What do I need to do to get it started or just wait?
Without nutrients, I'm surprised the yeast fermented this long. Sugar washes (alone) don't have nutrients. That's why the recipes here (in the Tried & True forum) add nutrients in sugar washes. To finish, I would add some DAP, a fresh yeast and maybe even some oyster shells (if the pH) is in the 3.5 to 4.5 range.

At 1.040, there is definitely still unfermented sugars in the bin. You don't want to run it that high.

Incidently, 2 lb sugar per gallon will give you a 1.075 OG, which is good for a sugar wash. So that part of your recipe is correct. But you need nutrients. And manage the pH. And also, monitor the ferment temperature to keep it in the right range for the yeast strain you're using.
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Where do I buy DAP? Also the recipe I used called for bringing the water to temp only high enough to melt sugar. Again I used corn sugar and it all dissolved at 130 F. I cooled and pitched yeast at 85F. Would a Gerber cereal addition help at this point? Vitamin B? I am thinking if anything my ph was high to begin with. I admit I jumped in before reading the do's and don't's on this forum. I had visited but was only reading posts from experienced distillers and their discussions on aging and tastes, not fermentation. I have 15 gallons of stalled wash and am just trying to save it to try my first run.
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

Post by still_stirrin »

Down_Home52 wrote:Where do I buy DAP?
The local home brew store. DAP is diammonium phosphate, a nutrient common for fermentation. The yeast love it.
Down_Home52 wrote:Would a Gerber cereal addition help at this point? Vitamin B?
Sure, the cereal will help. Rad has a sugar wash recipe which calls for Gerber baby cereal for nutrients. It's in the T&T forum. The B vitamins also help yeast metabolism. A good addition too.
Down_Home52 wrote:I am thinking if anything my ph was high to begin with.
Sugar wash fermentations are notorious for depressing the pH, as part of the ferment by products include acids. The oyster shells (calcium carbonate) help maintain the pH at a suitable level for the yeast to survive. Even starting your wash at pH 7, it is very likely lower now. Check it and see.
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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How sophisticated of a ph meter do I need? Pool strips close enough or do I need to get a meter? Thank you very much for the info. If the ph has fallen too low is there a substitute for oyster shells? If I use shells do you just pitch them in the wash whole? Would eggshells in a mesh bag work? Seems as though I have committed all cardinal sins and am now seeking for guidance and forgiveness!!
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

Post by dieselduo »

you can get them from the feed store. I use a handful in a 6 1/2 gal wash. If it's a crash it should start back up
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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I need to check the ph but I had some yeast nutrient in my wine making supplies. Not very much but put 1/2 tsp per gallon and added more yeast. It took off again. I will get the ph checked and pick up the oyster shells. Found the oyster shells and 100% grain Producers Pride sweet feed at local TSC. I want to run a sweet feed recipe next. I have always heard it is the real deal.
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Toss in some crushed oyster shells... They will only dissolve if the wash is acidic and will stop when the pH is corrected... You can even filter them back out after fermentation is done and reuse them after boiling to make them sterile, but they are so cheap why bother...
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Tossed in 3 hand fulls of oyster shells. Hope that kick starts it. PH was about 3.5. Do I need to add some cereal or raisins?
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

Post by rad14701 »

It will take some time... 12 - 24 hours... It might sound counter-intuitive but tomato paste helps... I've also had success with graham crackers which I almost always have kicking around even if there is no cereal on hand...
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Copy that. Will give it a try. Crumble the graham crackers and add straight into the wash?
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

Post by rad14701 »

Down_Home52 wrote:Copy that. Will give it a try. Crumble the graham crackers and add straight into the wash?
Yep... Or turn them into mush using a small amount of wash... Either way works...
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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You are a scholar and a gentleman!! Thanks for the answers. This forum will get me headed in the right direction before I screw up and need to back track. Wash is back running again and I am headed to the store for graham crackers. Itching to run this batch!!!!
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Hydrometer at 1.020 today. She is percolating well.
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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rad14701 wrote:Toss in some crushed oyster shells... They will only dissolve if the wash is acidic and will stop when the pH is corrected... You can even filter them back out after fermentation is done and reuse them after boiling to make them sterile, but they are so cheap why bother...
I been reading a bit, and it says if the pH has already crashed no shells are going to bring it back up, you be needing a Base to do that right?

Typically, you should add shells at the start of the ferment to prevent that from happening.

I think I even saw you say that someplace on here Rad14701
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

Post by rad14701 »

stony2289 wrote:
rad14701 wrote:Toss in some crushed oyster shells... They will only dissolve if the wash is acidic and will stop when the pH is corrected... You can even filter them back out after fermentation is done and reuse them after boiling to make them sterile, but they are so cheap why bother...
I been reading a bit, and it says if the pH has already crashed no shells are going to bring it back up, you be needing a Base to do that right?

Typically, you should add shells at the start of the ferment to prevent that from happening.

I think I even saw you say that someplace on here Rad14701
The shells will help but not as fast as sodium carbonate or calcium carbonate, neither of which does much buffering like the shells do...
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Just added graham crackers......the wash really liked them. Sure would like to see .990 FG soon. When I take the lid off my fermenter it will open your sinuses up.
Day 2 of graham cracker addition. This stuff is running like a runaway freight train!! SG down to 1.005 and still percolating. I understand the science of the oyster shell addition but what the heck was so magic about the graham crackers?? The yeasts sure liked them.
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Finished up yesterday at .992. Did not want to start another thread in another topic so I will ask here. The clearing process is natural settling or is there an additive? How long to wait if one was going to cook it? If I chose to transfer to another vessel I will be dipping/pumping and filtering. For the next batch of sugar wash I have a couple of gallons of clover honey. Would any of that flavor come across if part of the sugar was substituted for the honey? 15 gallon pot, 3" column, liebig condenser? Or save the honey for a pure honey wash and run my next wash which is a sweet feed? Would there be any advantage to using the backset from the sugar wash, except the btu's, to start the sweet feed or start from scratch?
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Sugar washes must not be too popular!! I racked 6 gallons of my corn sugar wash into a 6 gallon carboy using a racking cane and a coffee filter wrapped over the suction side of the cane. I couldn't tell much about clarity looking down into the grey Brute primary. The wash in the carboy looks about like the concentrated lemon juice you get to flavor sweet tea with at the grocery store. Not clear but no solids floating around because I filtered it. I used graham cracker crumbs late in the process and there is a little bit of that floating on top of the wash still in the primary. Run it? If not what kind of "clearing" am I waiting to see? Yes I am getting anxious even though this is a fictitious scenario.
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Let it set for another day or two in the secondary before racking into your boiler... You should end up with a fine layer of yeast on the bottom of your secondary and the wash should be clearer rather than cloudy... The clearer the wash, the less chance you will have of off tastes or smells in your distilled spirits...
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Thanks rad. I am just itching...bad. I will rack te remainder in the primary off to secondaries. Going to run 15 gallons. I have noticed folks on this site speaking of chilling to clear. Would ice bags in the primary promote clearing?? Your input is greatly appreciated. I need a mentor.
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Ice can help, but isn't required nor a preferred method... You wash will clear fairly rapidly in the secondaries... It can happen in as little as 8 - 24 hours...
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Down_Home52 wrote:Thanks rad. I am just itching...bad. I will rack te remainder in the primary off to secondaries. Going to run 15 gallons. I have noticed folks on this site speaking of chilling to clear. Would ice bags in the primary promote clearing?? Your input is greatly appreciated. I need a mentor.
No, don't put ice in your ferment. Not the way to do it. What I do (because I can) is put the carboy (what I ferment in) into a spare refrigerator that I have in the garage. That works great for ales and bread yeasts. Not near as effective for lager yeasts however.

What you can do is to successively rack into a clean fermenter...once, twice, or more times if needed.

Another tip, if you don't have a spare refrigerator nearby, is to put your fermenter into a larger tub and fill that tub with as cold of water you have, possibly even add ice cubes to it.

Finally, as the excitement to get your first run going, you should get prepared for the next ferment, or start it if you have a spare fermenter handy. Also, get your low wines vessel ready for the runs...so you're prepared when the time comes.

And as always, while waiting for the current phase of your hobby to catch up with you....spend some time reading the site. Knowledge is priceless and it is great to have it in your head when the time comes that you need it. Rad has a saying, (sorry if I misquote it), " you need to know what you need to know before you need to know it".

Best of luck with your runs. Be safe, responsible, and discrete.
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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I appreciate the advice. Truly. I have required myself to stop buying more and more equipment...carboys, primaries, etc until I have at least ran my first wash. It is difficult to say the least. I had a few pieces of hardware as I have been making wine from fruit grown here on the farm. Blueberry, pear, concord grape and plum. The plum was out of this world. A little tart but made a batch of banana, which was low in acidity, and blended instead of trying to kill the acidity with chemicals. If you have never ran banana wash it is pure firewater!!! Any way, the best addition I have made while waiting on the corn sugar wash was a 3 compartment, stainless steel, commercial kitchen sink. It is 10' long and has drain boards on each end. Really handy with wines, spirits, fruits and vegetables. Found it on Craigslist here locally and bought it for $500. All plumbed with copper supply lines and commercial drains!! I will keep racking the sugar wash as the carboy I racked off today has a layer of dead yeast on the bottom already. Was using it as a gauge for what was left in the 44 gallon primary. I have my demijohns, Mason jars, Jim Beam bottles, Crown bottles, lids, etc ready to catch my first run. Planning on a stripping run and then a spirit run for the corn sugar wash.
As far as being prepared.....man there is a ton of info on the forum. I have read more threads than I can count. Mainly what not to do. Sounds like if you can avoid a train wreck the worst you can do is back up and run again. Running into smaller containers made the most sense and letting the product breathe was a bit counter-intuitive after making wine, but will follow the advice. Cheers!
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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SS your words were sage advice. Went back through my prep and realized I had not set the boiler up onto the burner. I had to build a table with a step in it to sit parrot and catch vessel. That would have held me up when wash was ready. Thank you sir. Wash is clearing nicely. Doing a vinegar cleaning run as I type. Stripping run tonight I hope!!! It took 1 hour and 40 minutes over propane in a 15 gal ss boiler at 700 feet elevation to get steam off of 1-1/2 gallons of water and 1/2 gal. vinegar. Temp at top of column in vapor stream was 209.5 F. That seemed like a long time??? Will take forever to get 15 gallons of wash up and going? Using burner from turkey fryer. Good news is there were no leaks. Did some more reading and decided to split the 15 gallons into two runs. I had filled the boiler up to full I think. I had not started it so I will rack some off.
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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In the middle of my very first ever run using the corn sugar wash. Thanks to rad for the advice on oyster shells and graham crackers. Stripping run but doing it slow and low just to get a feel for the equipment. Everything went really well. 12 gallons of wash in 15 gallon boiler. About 1hr 40 minutes in got first drops of foreshots at 130-135 F. Gathered 500 ml and then started saving product. Pot still, liebig condenser. No packing in column. Started at 130 proof for one quart. Fell off to 110 proof on second quart. 100 proof an next 3 quarts and am on 6th quart and it is holding at 90 proof. The fifth jar tastes really nice!! Planning on double distillation but might have to hold a couple of jars out. I have some banana wine that is screaming to be mixed with something. I do think I will cut down on my volume of wash in the next few batches. It takes a huge time commitment to manage the process. I am 4 hours and 30 minutes in and still running 90 proof.
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Sounds good, Down_Home52, but is this the first alcohol laden run through the still which would make it your sacrificial run...??? If the still has not undergone a complete set of initial cleaning runs this would be a sacrificial run and sampling should be avoided and the resulting spirits tossed or held for cleaning tools, killing ants, etc... I'm not seeing signs of cleaning discussed anywhere in this topic but perhaps you mentioned it elsewhere...
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Re: First run-Corn Sugar wash

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Ran 4 gallons of 50/50 water and vinegar through it as hard as it would run. No water through condenser. The copper column and condenser were soaked in a 50/50 water vinegar bath for a couple of days. SS boiler was thoroughly washed with dish soap and hot water. Had to try and clean the parrot the best I could with vinegar and water.
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