Tell us about your mistakes.

[olddog]

Been there, done that. I am talking about a batch made 6 months ago.

[plonker]

So I decide to make a cross-flow condenser, but Im going to make it in 3/8th's not 1/4. So I make 14 9" lengths of pipe. I cut and assemble.. and let me tell you this was incredibly hard work.. like three weeks work most nights....

Looks great!

looks good, right?? So I solder the end caps on

Now Im really fired up! gonna have the best condenser in town... connect it up to the water... and it leaks EVERYWHERE!!! Water pouring out... How??? I have no idea... so.. cannot fix it, as I used high temp silver solder to solder it... Have to start from scratch...

Ah well, next time I will be MUCH more careful...

[LWTCS]

Pin holes within the connection points.

Welds can look good with the naked eye, but the thing is prolly loaded with pin holes.

Gotta pressure check (air and soapy spray bottle) after each weld before you move on to the next weld.

Plug one end, put an air nozzle (with rubber tip) on the other and spray joint with soap water.

BTW,
THAT THING IS SWEET. I hope you can get it up and running.

[rad14701]

Don't give up, plonker... That's probably the most difficult copper condenser build there is out there... If it was easy then everyone would have one... My thought on that design is to flux the whole assembly and then giving each end a dip in a solder bath...

Good luck...

[LWTCS]

Yeah Rad, I remember you commenting on that technique a while back. With the right set up, that sounds like a good way to ensure good a seal.

Have you ever seen that technique executed?

[Harry]

Your mistake was in silver soldering on the waterbox ends. The temp melted & breached the tube welds. In my original designs (see here) I told people to use SOFT solder on the waterboxes. Lower temp, therefore no breaches or problems. And soft solder only contacts water, so no issue with ethanol contamination.

Now to fix it. Hacksaw off the waterboxes, but leave the tube ends intact. Resolder the tube ends with silver solder. Clean up & PRESSURE test. Fix any leaks you find. When satisfied, reattach the waterboxes with SOFT solder, or do ththe following mod.

Drill a hole through the center of the waterboxes. Use stainless steel screws into the central tube and hand-cut seals to re-attach the waterboxes. If you use the right sixed screws, they will cut their own thread into the copper tube wall. This mod has been adopted as the preferred waterbox attachment method because it allows for periodic removal and cleaning/flushing of any dirty water deposits in the cross-tubes. Seal material can be anything that withstands hot water. It never contacts ethanol.

Hope this is useful. Keep us informed.

[HookLine]

Harry

Just to be clear. When you say silver solder, do you mean brazing rods? ie high temp.

Soft solder melts around 200-220 C.
Hard silver brazes melt around 650-800 C.

[Harry]

HookLine said:
Harry

Just to be clear. When you say silver solder, do you mean brazing rods? ie high temp.

Soft solder melts around 200-220 C.
Hard silver brazes melt around 650-800 C.


Yup, correct.

[Hack]

Harry, what's wrong with soft silver solder coming in contact with ethanol? Or do you mean regular soft solder?

[Harry]

Guys...we need to get this clear. The SILVER solder is for all work EXCEPT the waterboxes. If you try to silver solder the waterboxes in place, you will melt the joins of the tube ends and endplates because thos joins are directly behind the waterbox joins. THAT WHY two (2) different temperature solders are required, the lower temp SOFT solder one is only for the waterbox joins .

As I said in my previous post we don't use this method any more.We have the waterboxes as removable components. Solves all the drama an allows for cleaning as a bonus.

Someday when I get time I'll have to update that file in my Library.

[plonker]

Thanks Guys, particularly Harry. It makes much better sense now. Wish I had seen your instructions before I started.

Just for info though, I did use soft solder on the boxes and crossflow tubes. When it leaked I assumed I had melted the soft solder on the tubes, so I redid them in Silver, still leaked. I'm still not sure exactly how I stuffed it, as I was pretty sure I pushed the tubes right through the end plates before soldering. It looked good, I was so suprised when it leaked that I initally couldn't believe it and kept looking for a hole... and the unit didn't leak a little bit, It gushed out from multiple places....

I like the idea of the removable water boxes so will go for that. Will also hacksaw the ends off as you suggest and try to re use the tubes... And each one WILL be pressure tested after soldering.

This is how I learn... by making mistakes...

[blind drunk]

Be careful when stiring any thing in glass with a steel spoon I was giving my gallon of kaluha a good stir when the glass jar sprung a leak. Luckily, it was only a crack so I was able to tilt the jar back to prevent further loss. With my free hand I grabbed a ceramic bowl from the cupboard above and then poured it into the bowl. The floor, counter and the wall were a mess but I saved the drink. My wife was on the deck the whole time and didn't see a thing I took a sip after the rescue and I gotta say it never tasted so good. I guess I'll call it stress aging

[HookLine]

Thanks, Harry.

[ScottishBoy]

I had a bad one when I was young. We were doing a run and I was next to the still, listening and watching the flow....changing the wood out every now and then. I decided I wanted to read cause we had about four hours to go. I picked up the book and started and got very cozy. Damned if I didnt fall alseep. Because the still was wood fired, it stoked down pretty quick and the still went into rest. It was stream fed, so I didnt have to worry about blow out.

But the candle I was reading by was burning down and finally reached the table by falling over onto a box of crumb cakes. John was sleeping. I SHOULD have been up. I remember waking up and seeing him looking at me through a frame of flames and him saying "Holy Shit! Fire!"

Fortunately we were ready and got it out the door as fast as possible and then scanned the room with extinguishers. Damn lucky we woke up.

Moral of the story?
If your doing a long run, make sure you are rested and able to make the full run.

Oh...and never run a still at a party. Idiots who know nothing about alcohol keep trying to prove how friggin brave they are by tasting pure. This happened to a bud who decided to serve at a party. He shut the thing down after some jock tried to swig from the jar.

Cant be too careful.

SB

[LWTCS]

Oh...and never run a still at a party. Idiots who know nothing about alcohol keep trying to prove how friggin brave they are by tasting pure. This happened to a bud who decided to serve at a party. He shut the thing down after some jock tried to swig from the jar.

Yep, good call Scottish Boy. The whole shootin match sounds rather sophomoric.

Clear minds prevail.

[ScottishBoy]

Oh...and never run a still at a party. Idiots who know nothing about alcohol keep trying to prove how friggin brave they are by tasting pure. This happened to a bud who decided to serve at a party. He shut the thing down after some jock tried to swig from the jar.

Yep, good call Scottish Boy. The whole shootin match sounds rather sophomoric.

Clear minds prevail.

I think were were juniors...

I was also reminded of another event which could have had dire consequences. If you are working with any pressure in your system, test all your connections. We used to use a paint brush and a can of warm water. If you think a joint might be leaking, then brush it and look for bubbles. The last thing you want is alcohol vapor/air mixture and an open flame.

Some of this stuff is coming back to me...

[kiwistiller]

I just had an epic face-palm moment. I realised that I have no memory of taking the botanicals out of my boiler after the last batch of gin. Since then, I have stripped some UJSM, and added it to my keg of low wines, which has about 45l now. FML. guess that lovely flavour is going to feed the column.

[olddog]

Whoops

[scarecrow]

I was running a rum wash today. Low heat stovetop pottie with a thumper. All was going well, so I decided to do a bit of a cleanup to kill time.
I sat back down and watched the still, like I always do. Suddenly I could hear the output pipe chuffing. Took a closer look and sure enough it was hissing and farting like no ones business. WTF. What's going on here?

In the time it took for me to turn left and walk 1 pace to check the controls the pottie blew the bowl just high enough to cause hot wash to spray every where.
Just as I reached for the towel to shield myself, the thumper blew out some flour paste.

Shit was spraying everywhere.

I managed to turn the heat off and throw towels everywhere to soak up the wash.

I must of accidently bumped the control from low to high without realising it when I did my cleanup.

All I can say is this stuff was fucking hot and it fucking hurt.

That's done me for a week or two till I heal.

scarecrow

[HookLine]

Woah! That was a close call. Could have been a lot worse.

Appreciate your honesty. It helps others avoid the same experience.

[rad14701]

Sorry to hear about the accident, scarecrow... It should serve as a wake up call to everyone that accidents can and do happen... Now, get healed up and climb back on that still soon, ya hear...

[fdangerous]

my worst one was a couple of months ago , i use flour paste as a seal and some how didnt get it all mixed up or just didnt use enough of it on that side but some how i had the thing runnin full out and sprung a leak wich burst into flames lol, i was wowed, then cut the heat and shoved it of the burner , another night on the couch,lol

[kiwistiller]

crap. posting twice in a week in this thread.

I'm CERTAIN that someone said recently that if you dissolve baking soda in water first, it won't foam so much when added to the wash. it may have been an illusion though, as I can't find it now.

Anyway, safe in the knowledge that it wouldn't foam, I tipped a large amount of sugar and baking soda in water into one of my fermenters, and Mount Vesuvius erupts and sugar foam goes EVERYWHERE, all over the insulation (and electric blanket!) for the fermenters, all over the floor, down the back of the bench and along all the hard to reach places, the windows....

I have spent all morning cleaning it up.

I will not make that mistake again.

[HookLine]

Using baking soda just adds more nucleation sites for the CO2 to foam on. Don't matter if it is dissolved in water.

Just add a little bit of the baking soda/sugar, let the foaming settle, then add a bit more, etc, until it doesn't happen.

[kiwistiller]

yup I figured that one out pretty quick

Learning by doing, learning by doing....

[rad14701]

Giving a good stir to an active ferment will release a majority of the CO2 immediately prior to adding any ingredients helps reduce foaming... Even adding water can cause a minor reaction but anything with an abundance of nucleation points is worse...

[Tater]

Made a corn meal mash other day . After 2 frosts thought nats were gone .So didnt put cloth over barrel just plywood I use for such.mash fermented for 3 days before infection and can smell alch in it.Decided to try something Id wondered about with these infections and added some bleach to mash and filled barrel to top with added water.Want to see if bleach will kill infection .Will give time to let chlorine evap out of wash and add some sugar and yeast to see if mash will start fermenting again. Filled barrel to top cause if nothing else will let set till washes cleans barrel before dumping.

[Tater]

just checked mash. its history

[UnclePaul]

My dad told me stories of an older man I knew who made shine back in the late thirtys and early forties. Started his still up one day and forgot to remove the oakbranch plug he used to keep unwelcome guest out of the coil.
The left if for a little while to go back to the house.
Dad said you could hear the explosion from a mile away.
After being told that story, I do all my cooking out side.

[kiwistiller]

Here's a new one ... starting a 50l spirit run at 10pm, because you have 170 exam papers to mark by the morning, and you might as well supervise the still while you're at it (coz then it's like you're being paid to still? sorta? maybe?). Tired stilling does not work well at all. I'm fairly confident I'll bugger up something, so I'm shutting down for a nap. I keep nearly overflowing jars.

SleepyKiwi