If you could choose

[Butch50]

That is some damn fine advice from Usge. Everything he said is spot on.

I recently read a report that a study of shootings by NYC Police revealed that the NYC Police missed 53% of the time at 6 feet, and hit only 7% of the time at 75 feet - in police shootings, not on the range. That 6 foot miss rate seems incredible and impossible when you stand 6 feet from someone and try to figure out how to miss, but the source is Thomas Sowell so I believe it to be accurate, and it shows what adrenaline does to you.

In an adrenalin situation you lose a lot of your fine motor control and a lot of your ability to think. Training is a partial solution to that, but the NYC cops are well trained, so you gotta wonder what the best answer is if it isn't training. All the stopping power in the world is useless if you don't hit the target.

This started out as a request for the best .45 acp, and that was how I answered. However if we move away from that narrow question then for close combat a short barrelled 12 gauge shotgun loaded with buck shot has to be the absolute top - it should give you a much better chance to out shoot the NYC cops. Each time you pull the trigger you send out 9 each .32 caliber round balls, if I remember correctly.

I peronally keep a an 870 in my bedroom loaded with alternating buck shot and slugs - it has a short slug barrel and a pistol grip stock. It also has an extended tube that holds 10 rounds. If I ever had to enter and clear a room or other short range area, that would be the first thing I would grab. My 1911 would be for backup. My rifle would be for medium and long range situations.

If I had to go into an urban combat situation I would prefer to be armed with grenades, shotgun, 1911, and the best selective fire 7.62 I could get, and I could figure out a way to carry them all. Oh, and as much ammo for each as I could carry - leave the rations at base camp.

If you went with a revolver, then a 45 Long Colt will give you even slightly better stopping power than a .45 acp. The only problem is reloading, reloading with pre-loaded clips takes a bit less fine motor skills than reloading with half moon clips or speed loaders. But for absolute 100% of the time reliablity, the revolver has to be given the nod over a semi-auto.

Edited to add this link: http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell121107.php3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[goose eye]

drop give me 20 then shoot . get your presure up. run a 1/2 mile then shoot.
leave the rings be try botle caps an string
so im tole

call spooky/puff

[OldManP]

I couldn't agree more with the last several posts. I love shotguns and I would much rather carry one into combat than a pistol, but i don't know my future scenario. Definitely in a CQ situation (close quarters). I figured I would buy or issued a fairly accurate and high rate of fire small carbine/rifle and just looking for a backup handgun. I would prefer a semi auto, but also entertain the idea of a revolver after seeing a video of some highly trained individuals use them with grace and speed. I of course will practice as much as possible b/c there is no substitution for practice and repetition. You all have great advice and I hope i can use it all in not only the purchasing but the practice/use in my future occupation. Thank you again. If any more advice is available feel free to post, I love knowledge and opinions of others, no matter how strange! I can only hope my future employers give me my choice (and money) to purchase the firearm I'm comfortable with. Thanks everyone!

[cannon.co.tn]

well, assuming we are assuming what we are assuming is accurate about your destination and duty.

1) Shotguns are much more useful in the Jungle where visibility is limited and CQ combat has a different meaning. A carbine is more appropriate in the desert. Unlike VietNam you usually have a much better situational awareness of CQ situations in Iraq/Afghanistan right now.

2) As for handguns, start with a 9mm that you are comfortable with. Truth is that in most situations your goal is more likely to get the bad guy to duck rather that kill him. The 9 mm is more than adequate for that. There's also a lot to be said for having 14 to 16 rounds on hand rather than 8-10.

3) If the shit really hits the fan and you're hunkered down with friends you'll most likely find 9mm rounds more readily available than .45 or .40 (my favorite)

[Usge]

Shotgun...is for close quarters and urban. It has less penetration than a rifle as well. If you need to reach out and touch somebody, or shoot behind walls, etc., etc., you need a rifle..or an assault rifle. Personally, in that regard...I'd carry an AK. I'm sure there will be plenty of those around too—whereever you are going.

[19Kilo]

When I got out of the ARMY, my first McJob was with a private security firm. We had K-Frame .38s, model64 if I remember. Heavy, Heavy, Heavy! and the round would go thruough a person, and the one behind them if we ever had to use them...thank God, didn't have too.

We switched over to the Model4006 .40, the trigger pull took some getting used to... Felt like squezzing a ton after the K-frame. But out of the box, the grouping was great, and they said it had 2x the stopping power of the .38.

For the Home protection, I have a Taurus +P 9 milli.... tiny little monster, but I would not want it for a duty weapon... just a bedside keepsafe.

[wineo]

My bedside gun is a model 29 S+W 4 inch barrel.Theres just nothing like a 44 magnum.

[Tater]

My bedside gun is a model 29 S+W 4 inch barrel.Theres just nothing like a 44 magnum.

mines a 6 shot detective sp colt revolver 38 cal hand loaded hollow point loaded hot. My Carrie is a 9 mm glock 26 and/or the smith & Wesson version of same with a baretta 22 auto for the pocket or boot.

[wineo]

I have quite a few 38s.I also have 2 reloading presses and lots of dies and brass.I havent reloaded anything for a while but dont need to because I have lots of stuff already loaded.I do my rifle loads also,but dont have one for shotgun shells.Its one of my other hobbys.I have quite a few.

[CoopsOz]

It must be easy to knock off weapons in the States if you all keep them in the bedside drawer!

[Dutchmancreek]

It must be easy to knock off weapons in the States if you all keep them in the bedside drawer!

But it's the getting to the bedside drawer with out getting shot that's the trick.

[Dutchmancreek]

I'm a big fan of the 1911A1 and of revolvers. I've never seen the big advantage of the double stack nines. They just add weight and bulk. The handgun is a defensive weapon and the 6 or 7 shots in the .45 or revolver should be plenty until you get to your rifle. The real advantage of a handgun is that you don't have to go fetch it....it can always be with you. If you are really expecting trouble, your rifle (or shotgun) should be close.

[Old_Blue]

1911A1
Old War Horse

[Usge]

I'm with goose...call the spooky/puff. In that regard...all you need is a radio (and somebody on the other end to listen).

Best wire your shit up tite though if you calling it in close

[HookLine]

spooky/puff

[Usge]

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-air ... y-puff.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[HookLine]

Thanks for that, Usge.

[Dutchmancreek]

I'm with goose...call the spooky/puff. In that regard...all you need is a radio (and somebody on the other end to listen).

Best wire your shit up tite though if you calling it in close

Wow... bring up memories of the old, bold, smokey days when we were young.

"Don't call me an old fool...you don't get old bein' a fool, but there's a lot of smart ass young men who got deader than hell."

[wineo]

The newer version is much more wicked but puffs a legend for sure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_AC-130" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[punkin]

Found this on the AA-12.

Figure i'd want this if i was in that type of job.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[blanikdog]

It must be easy to knock off weapons in the States if you all keep them in the bedside drawer!

Fascinating reading isn't it Coops. What would you go for if you could? I think I'm sold on the buckshot and 12 gauge

blanik

[CoopsOz]

Dunno Blanik....I just thank christ that we have the laws we do and I really don't have to think about it! (I know mods, this one is bordering....remove the post if you see fit.)

[Uncle Jesse]

see the deal is that something like 51 million U.S. households are gun owners so busting into a house when people are there isn't always wise. and many folks have gun safes where guns are kept safe from kids. I do know people who sleep with a loaded gun within 2 feet of their bed though, including family members. Like they say if a gun isn't loaded it's about as good for self-defense as a rock.

http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/4.2 ... Screen.pdf

Interesting reading no matter if you like guns or not.

[wineo]

Im one of those people!

[CoopsOz]

With compliments from your local NRA rep!

[Uncle Jesse]

my single shot falling block:

[belialNZ]

one pistol to save your life, which one would it be?

Well, I know very little about pistols, but after watching lots of zombie movies... I would go for the one that holds the most bullets

However, on a personal (And not really political note, as thats against the rules), I'd stay in a country where having zombies attack is the main reason you'd even think about owning a pistol to save your life.

Don't home owned guns get used significantly more often for suicides than self-defense globally anyhow?

Actually, really DO want an automatic (semi?) shotgun after seeing a video of them on the web, the possums would be F***ed then.

[blanikdog]

Nice grouping, UJ.

[rad14701]

Don't home owned guns get used significantly more often for suicides than self-defense globally anyhow?

I'd be inclined ot believe that personal weapons are used for murder, suicide, accidentally shooting family members mistaken for intruders, and thwarting intrusion, in that order... And thwarting intrusion by use of a gun virtually never happens... But it's still nice to know that, at least here in the US, we have the right to bear arms... Most crimes aren't committed by legal gun owners anyway...

[blanikdog]

When firearm ownership was made virtually illegal in Australia suicide by shooting dropped around 80%.

During the same period suicide by hanging increased by around 80%.

blanik