hello all ive got a question iam planing on ferementing 6.5 gal. of wash i came across a 20gal. drum that had automotive soap in the container ive cleaned it out real good will it still work if i only ferement 6.5 gal. in a 20gal drum i do have a air look for it to plus i found a 3gal. pressure cooker for my pot still is ther a way to seal the copper tub to the top lid with out having to solder it like a silicone of some kind that i could use
thanks all
goatroper57
fermenting vessel info needed
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goatroper57
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Re: fermenting vessel info needed
If the original contents were toxic in any way you should NEVER use it with any potable liquids... Wash it as many times as you like, you may still end up with toxins in your wash. While that may not be of concern to you, it sure may be to those you may share your spirits with... It's one thing to poison yourself but potentially poisoning others is simply not an option... Use your head an be safe...
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
I'm getting ready to use an 8 gallon turkey fryer for my stil boiler.
I have a stainess steel mixing bowl that is the perfect diameter to go over the top. I have not yet had a two inch diameter hole drilled into the bottom of the bowl to accomodate my reflux head. I want to find someone with a nice plasma cutter to cut a neat 2 inch hole.
So, in the meantime, I plan to just use a thin sheet sheet of galvanized steel. I won't care about cutting neatly here. Just going punch the hole with a chisel. then drill holes to accomodate bolts that will keep the stillhead in place.
I plan to use flour and water paste method to seal everything including the connection between the top of the turkey fryer pot and the sheet metal "lid".
I'm anticipating the gentle boiling pressures of distilling will escape through the stillhead to my condensor, but in case it needs a better hold - I will weigh it down with sandbags or cans of beans or whatever. Might even make use of the residual heat and cook a small pot of soup or oatmeal on it! Imagine that... oatmeal or soup as part of the reflux!
Flour and water paste! See the thread.
I have a stainess steel mixing bowl that is the perfect diameter to go over the top. I have not yet had a two inch diameter hole drilled into the bottom of the bowl to accomodate my reflux head. I want to find someone with a nice plasma cutter to cut a neat 2 inch hole.
So, in the meantime, I plan to just use a thin sheet sheet of galvanized steel. I won't care about cutting neatly here. Just going punch the hole with a chisel. then drill holes to accomodate bolts that will keep the stillhead in place.
I plan to use flour and water paste method to seal everything including the connection between the top of the turkey fryer pot and the sheet metal "lid".
I'm anticipating the gentle boiling pressures of distilling will escape through the stillhead to my condensor, but in case it needs a better hold - I will weigh it down with sandbags or cans of beans or whatever. Might even make use of the residual heat and cook a small pot of soup or oatmeal on it! Imagine that... oatmeal or soup as part of the reflux!
Flour and water paste! See the thread.
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
I would check the ingredients in the soap.
Basic soap has residual lye, oils, glycerin, etc. Nothing that would really kill you in small amount. Might give you the sh$ts.
However, they might put solvents in it to clean tough road tar. Solvents can do serious damage to you insides.
Might even have addatives designed to stick to the car to help prevent stuff from sticking to the paint too. Teflon is kinda toxic.
I wouldn't chance it unless you just plan to use the alcohol a fuel.
Basic soap has residual lye, oils, glycerin, etc. Nothing that would really kill you in small amount. Might give you the sh$ts.
However, they might put solvents in it to clean tough road tar. Solvents can do serious damage to you insides.
Might even have addatives designed to stick to the car to help prevent stuff from sticking to the paint too. Teflon is kinda toxic.
I wouldn't chance it unless you just plan to use the alcohol a fuel.
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
Bill, you not worried about chemicals from the large surface of galvanized steel in your still but you're worried about a little soap or solvent residue in a fermenter? Not busting your chops or anything but it sounds like 6 in one and a half dozen in the other to me. Maybe I'm just a little too safety concious though, you know even if you take no risks things get f^cked up.
15 gallon pot still, 2"x18" column with liebeg condensor on propane.
Modified Charles 803 w/ 50gal boiler, never ran so far.
Modified Charles 803 w/ 50gal boiler, never ran so far.
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
As a matter of fact, YES.
Toxic chemicals worry me.
Galvanized steel does not.
What is galvanized steel? It's steel that has been bonded with zinc. Zinc acetate has anti-viral properties. Perhaps I will have stumbled on a new cure for the common cold! Doc Hoo's Magic elixir. Revitalize and energize when you swig a bottle of this male enhancing cold remedy. Women will look prettier, you will be smarter and stronger AND resist this years flu!!!
Below are descriptions of how galvanized steel is made via WiseGeek.com. and the healthful benefits of zinc on the male reproductive system by Wkipedia.com
Here's what WiseGeek.com has to say about galvanized steel:
Galvanized steel has gone through a chemical process to keep it from corroding. The steel gets coated in layers of zinc because rust won't attack this protective metal. For countless outdoor, marine, or industrial applications, galvanized steel is an essential fabrication component.
The principal method of making steel resist corrosion is by alloying it with another metal, zinc. When steel is submerged in melted zinc, the chemical reaction permanently bonds the zinc to the steel through galvanizing. Therefore, the zinc isn't exactly a sealer, like paint, because it doesn't just coat the steel; it actually permanently becomes a part of it.
The zinc goes through a reaction with the iron molecules within the steel to form galvanized steel. The most external layer is all zinc, but successive layers are a mixture of zinc and iron, with an interior of pure steel. These multiple layers are responsible for the amazing property of the metal to withstand corrosion-inducing circumstances, such as saltwater or moisture.
Zinc also protects the steel by acting as a "sacrificial layer." If, for some reason, rust does take hold on the surface of galvanized steel, the zinc will get corroded first. This allows the zinc that is spread over the breach or scratch to prevent rust from reaching the steel.
Wiki on biological enhancements through zinc:
Zinc is an essential mineral, necessary for sustaining all life. It is a key factor in prostate gland function and reproductive organ growth. It is estimated that 3,000 of the hundreds of thousands of proteins in the human body contain zinc prosthetic groups, one type of which is the so-called zinc finger. In addition, there are over a dozen types of cells in the human body that secrete zinc ions, and the roles of these secreted zinc signals in medicine and health are now being actively studied. Zinc ions are now considered to be neurotransmitters. Cells in the salivary gland, prostate, immune system and intestine use zinc signalling.[11]
Zinc is also involved in olfaction: the olfactory receptors contain zinc binding sites and a deficiency in zinc causes anosmia.
Zinc is an activator of certain enzymes, such as carbonic anhydrase. Carbonic anhydrase is important in the transport of carbon dioxide in vertebrate blood. It is also required in plants for leaf formation, the synthesis of indole acetic acid (auxin) and anaerobic respiration (alcoholic fermentation).[12]
Zinc is a good lewis acid, making it a useful catalytic agent in hydroxylation and other enzymatic reactions. Also Zinc has a flexible coordination geometry, allowing enzymes using Zinc to rapidly shift conformations and perform biological reactions [13].
Zinc is found in Oysters.
Toxic chemicals worry me.
Galvanized steel does not.
What is galvanized steel? It's steel that has been bonded with zinc. Zinc acetate has anti-viral properties. Perhaps I will have stumbled on a new cure for the common cold! Doc Hoo's Magic elixir. Revitalize and energize when you swig a bottle of this male enhancing cold remedy. Women will look prettier, you will be smarter and stronger AND resist this years flu!!!
Below are descriptions of how galvanized steel is made via WiseGeek.com. and the healthful benefits of zinc on the male reproductive system by Wkipedia.com
Here's what WiseGeek.com has to say about galvanized steel:
Galvanized steel has gone through a chemical process to keep it from corroding. The steel gets coated in layers of zinc because rust won't attack this protective metal. For countless outdoor, marine, or industrial applications, galvanized steel is an essential fabrication component.
The principal method of making steel resist corrosion is by alloying it with another metal, zinc. When steel is submerged in melted zinc, the chemical reaction permanently bonds the zinc to the steel through galvanizing. Therefore, the zinc isn't exactly a sealer, like paint, because it doesn't just coat the steel; it actually permanently becomes a part of it.
The zinc goes through a reaction with the iron molecules within the steel to form galvanized steel. The most external layer is all zinc, but successive layers are a mixture of zinc and iron, with an interior of pure steel. These multiple layers are responsible for the amazing property of the metal to withstand corrosion-inducing circumstances, such as saltwater or moisture.
Zinc also protects the steel by acting as a "sacrificial layer." If, for some reason, rust does take hold on the surface of galvanized steel, the zinc will get corroded first. This allows the zinc that is spread over the breach or scratch to prevent rust from reaching the steel.
Wiki on biological enhancements through zinc:
Zinc is an essential mineral, necessary for sustaining all life. It is a key factor in prostate gland function and reproductive organ growth. It is estimated that 3,000 of the hundreds of thousands of proteins in the human body contain zinc prosthetic groups, one type of which is the so-called zinc finger. In addition, there are over a dozen types of cells in the human body that secrete zinc ions, and the roles of these secreted zinc signals in medicine and health are now being actively studied. Zinc ions are now considered to be neurotransmitters. Cells in the salivary gland, prostate, immune system and intestine use zinc signalling.[11]
Zinc is also involved in olfaction: the olfactory receptors contain zinc binding sites and a deficiency in zinc causes anosmia.
Zinc is an activator of certain enzymes, such as carbonic anhydrase. Carbonic anhydrase is important in the transport of carbon dioxide in vertebrate blood. It is also required in plants for leaf formation, the synthesis of indole acetic acid (auxin) and anaerobic respiration (alcoholic fermentation).[12]
Zinc is a good lewis acid, making it a useful catalytic agent in hydroxylation and other enzymatic reactions. Also Zinc has a flexible coordination geometry, allowing enzymes using Zinc to rapidly shift conformations and perform biological reactions [13].
Zinc is found in Oysters.
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
OK. I can admit where I am wrong. Thanks trthskr4 for alerting me to the potential of zinc toxicity. That's the beauty of this knowledge sharing in this forum.
I did some further research (my mouse twitched and scrolled down the wiki further)
so, in fact, you know all the great stuff people are saying about ANTI-oxidents? Well these zinc concentrations can provide the big bad OXIDANTS that everyone is afraid of!! The zinc ions zip through cells like bullets causing damage to your DNA if you take them the wrong way! Maybe I can balance it out by mixing the zinc shine with green tea? ha!
here's what I found in the Wiki on zinc toxicity and the dangers of US pennies minted after 1982:
Zinc toxicity
Even though zinc is an essential requirement for a healthy body, excess zinc can be harmful. Excessive absorption of zinc can also suppress copper and iron absorption. The free zinc ion in solution is highly toxic to plants, invertebrates, and even vertebrate fish. The Free Ion Activity Model (FIAM) is well-established in the literature, and shows that just micromolar amounts of the free ion kills some organisms. A recent example showed 6 micromolar killing 93% of all Daphnia in water.[17]
The free zinc ion is also a powerful Lewis acid up to the point of being corrosive. Stomach acid contains hydrochloric acid, in which metallic zinc dissolves readily to give corrosive zinc chloride. Swallowing a post 1982 American one cent piece (97.5% zinc) can cause damage to the stomach lining due to the high solubility of the zinc ion in the acidic stomach.[18] Zinc toxicity, mostly in the form of the ingestion of US pennies minted after 1982, is commonly fatal in dogs where it causes a severe hemolytic anemia.[19] In pet parrots zinc is highly toxic and poisoning can often be fatal[20].
There is evidence of induced copper deficiency at low intakes of 100–300 mg Zn/d. The USDA RDA is 15 mg Zn/d. Even lower levels, closer to the RDA, may interfere with the utilization of copper and iron or to adversely affect cholesterol.[21].
There is also a condition called the zinc shakes or "zinc chills" that can be induced by the inhalation of freshly formed zinc oxide formed during the welding of galvanized materials.
I did some further research (my mouse twitched and scrolled down the wiki further)
so, in fact, you know all the great stuff people are saying about ANTI-oxidents? Well these zinc concentrations can provide the big bad OXIDANTS that everyone is afraid of!! The zinc ions zip through cells like bullets causing damage to your DNA if you take them the wrong way! Maybe I can balance it out by mixing the zinc shine with green tea? ha!
here's what I found in the Wiki on zinc toxicity and the dangers of US pennies minted after 1982:
Zinc toxicity
Even though zinc is an essential requirement for a healthy body, excess zinc can be harmful. Excessive absorption of zinc can also suppress copper and iron absorption. The free zinc ion in solution is highly toxic to plants, invertebrates, and even vertebrate fish. The Free Ion Activity Model (FIAM) is well-established in the literature, and shows that just micromolar amounts of the free ion kills some organisms. A recent example showed 6 micromolar killing 93% of all Daphnia in water.[17]
The free zinc ion is also a powerful Lewis acid up to the point of being corrosive. Stomach acid contains hydrochloric acid, in which metallic zinc dissolves readily to give corrosive zinc chloride. Swallowing a post 1982 American one cent piece (97.5% zinc) can cause damage to the stomach lining due to the high solubility of the zinc ion in the acidic stomach.[18] Zinc toxicity, mostly in the form of the ingestion of US pennies minted after 1982, is commonly fatal in dogs where it causes a severe hemolytic anemia.[19] In pet parrots zinc is highly toxic and poisoning can often be fatal[20].
There is evidence of induced copper deficiency at low intakes of 100–300 mg Zn/d. The USDA RDA is 15 mg Zn/d. Even lower levels, closer to the RDA, may interfere with the utilization of copper and iron or to adversely affect cholesterol.[21].
There is also a condition called the zinc shakes or "zinc chills" that can be induced by the inhalation of freshly formed zinc oxide formed during the welding of galvanized materials.
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
Back to finding someone with a plasma cutter to cut a hole into my stainless steel mixing bowl for my boiler top.
Maybe I can get away with cutting it with a map gas welding torch. I have one of those.
Maybe I can get away with cutting it with a map gas welding torch. I have one of those.
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
Glad you did your research Bill, didn't want you to get hurt or worse. That's part of the reason we're all here, to help each other and look out for each other. 
A small piece of a still made from galvanized or brass when treated for lead is ok but a piece of it very big could be bad, real bad.
A small piece of a still made from galvanized or brass when treated for lead is ok but a piece of it very big could be bad, real bad.15 gallon pot still, 2"x18" column with liebeg condensor on propane.
Modified Charles 803 w/ 50gal boiler, never ran so far.
Modified Charles 803 w/ 50gal boiler, never ran so far.
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goatroper57
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- Location: annapolis mo.
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
hello all thanks for the feedback on the container i was askin about i found a number on the container to call and thay said that it had chemicals in it that would not be good for the human body so ill have to find somthing different to use this site is the best ther is on the net for info. on destilling booze i thank yall very much the drum was from zep it had (zep xt-1398 ) in it so if ANY ONE FINDS THIS 20GAL. ZEP DRUM DONT USE IT its a shame it would have made a real good drum for fermenting again thank all
goatroper57
goatroper57
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
look in back of restaurants and fast food joints, mine had apple juice in them.
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GringoAlto
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Re: fermenting vessel info needed
I am just starting making my own still. The information I have received in this forum is very helpful. However the discussion above about the dangers of zinc is disturbing.
My boiler is a stainless stockpot closed with a RTV seal and spring clamps. The fractionating column is galvanized steel, 2 inch pipe, one meter in length. It is stuffed with s.s. scrub pads. The dual head consists of stainless pots, copper tubing, brass tubing fittings, and black iron pipe fittings.
My theory is that the zinc is on the outside of the column - so no problem there. I am a little worried about the brass fittings for the copper tubing.
Please comment!!
Theoretically, theory and practice are the same. Practically they are different.
My boiler is a stainless stockpot closed with a RTV seal and spring clamps. The fractionating column is galvanized steel, 2 inch pipe, one meter in length. It is stuffed with s.s. scrub pads. The dual head consists of stainless pots, copper tubing, brass tubing fittings, and black iron pipe fittings.
My theory is that the zinc is on the outside of the column - so no problem there. I am a little worried about the brass fittings for the copper tubing.
Please comment!!
Theoretically, theory and practice are the same. Practically they are different.
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
@GringoAlto
Scrap the RTV sealer... Scrap the galvanized pipe... Read... Read... Read... The parent site is considered mandatory reading... The life you save may be your own...
Scrap the RTV sealer... Scrap the galvanized pipe... Read... Read... Read... The parent site is considered mandatory reading... The life you save may be your own...
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
GringoAlto, what rad14701 said, and You don't want the black iron, you need to pickle your brass. This is very important safety advice! Read! Read! Read!
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punkin
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 2711
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:36 pm
- Location: Northern NSW Oz Trail Ya
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
Along with the above cleaning questions, i have one of my own.
I have aquired three 220l (58 gall) food grade drums (for $20 each
) and they were used to import Olives. There is still some of the residue in the drums which i've hosed out OK, but the drums are very oily inside.
Just wondering who's got an idea about what to use to cut through the oil that won't leave residues that upset my yeast.
I've always avoided detergents in 25 years of brewing as i believed that contact with detergents would kill my yeast.
Bourbon girl suggests bleach, but i'm unsure of that too.
I have aquired three 220l (58 gall) food grade drums (for $20 each
) and they were used to import Olives. There is still some of the residue in the drums which i've hosed out OK, but the drums are very oily inside.Just wondering who's got an idea about what to use to cut through the oil that won't leave residues that upset my yeast.
I've always avoided detergents in 25 years of brewing as i believed that contact with detergents would kill my yeast.
Bourbon girl suggests bleach, but i'm unsure of that too.
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
Bleach is ok if it cuts the oil. after washing and rinse, let air out chlorine will evaporate . something I us a lot is sodium hydroxide . makes a good
cleaner and it does not hurt the wash (raises PH) but you do have to be careful. (also helps remove burnt on stuff)
cleaner and it does not hurt the wash (raises PH) but you do have to be careful. (also helps remove burnt on stuff)
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
Hey, punkin, wouldn't a combination of foreshots, heads, and tails work... Wouldn't kill yeast and would put them to good use... The results of a test batch or a failed batch would also work...
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goatroper57
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- Location: annapolis mo.
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
hello all i came across three 5-6 gal. buckets with lids thay had donut glaze in them but the place that iam getting them from had put old cooking grease in them if i clean them out with hot water and dish soap and rinse real good can i use them to ferment my sugar wash in with out messing the fermenting proccess up plus i have a super yeast called (liquor quik superyeast X-press) iam wanting to know if it can be used it to make wine too i know wine yeast would be best but i thought ied try makin wine again after about 10 yrs since ive made it this wine would be for the x-mass holiday so ied let it age till then atleast anyway maybe hahaha
thanks all
goatroper57
thanks all
goatroper57
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
The buckets should be fine as long as they are cleaned real good.
That yeast is a Turbo yeast. Don't try to push for more than 12% and use 1/2 a packet for your washes. (There are way too many nutrients in there that add off tastes) They would probably make some pretty skanky wine.
That yeast is a Turbo yeast. Don't try to push for more than 12% and use 1/2 a packet for your washes. (There are way too many nutrients in there that add off tastes) They would probably make some pretty skanky wine.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
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goatroper57
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- Location: annapolis mo.
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
ok thank for the info hawke about the wine ill for get that till i get wine yeast and your sayin only use half the packeage of yeast for my wash as iam only goin to use water sugar and yeast on the the package it says to use 17.5 lbs of sugar so should i lower the sugar amount to since you say only use half the pkge of yeast or use the full 17.5 lbs ill be useing the 5gal. bucket so in other words how much sugar and yeast should i use with 5gl. of water i would be happy with about 90 to 110 proof after it finihed iam not lookin for much more then that as i dont want to drink one shot and be chit faced ya know what i mean
thanks
goatroper57
thanks
goatroper57
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
I would go no more than 2lb per gallon on the sugar. That will still make it in the 12 to 14% range. Use 1/2 to 3/4 of the yeast. It may take it a little longer to ferment, but it will utilize more of the nuetrients.
The final proof all depends on your still and technique.
The final proof all depends on your still and technique.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
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punkin
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 2711
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:36 pm
- Location: Northern NSW Oz Trail Ya
Re: fermenting vessel info needed
rad14701 wrote:Hey, punkin, wouldn't a combination of foreshots, heads, and tails work... Wouldn't kill yeast and would put them to good use... The results of a test batch or a failed batch would also work...
Beautiful idea Rad, thank you, i'll do it today.
TooStupidToOccurToMePunkin