??Winding a coil??

[Husker]

Agreed, and cheap wood dowel will not work well. A good metal pipe does the trick (black iron, or even copper). Also thick walled PVC works nice, as does an oak dowel. Cheapo pine dowels do not make good winding rods (as it sounds like you found out, as did I).

H.

[minime]

Success! I had given up hope of ever accomplishing this on my own but Alex Bakakob decided to go on vacation at just the right time. I had requested a couple of coils from him and when I didn’t get a reply after a couple of weeks I thought he wasn’t interested. After re-reading all the posts in this thread I could see where I’d made several errors. I have also learned a little from my mistakes and decided to give this one last go. So, using a ¾ copper mandrel and a jig similar to QdanT’s I wound an inside coil with relatively equal spacing. On previous attempts I found the underlying coil to be a bit of a problem causing the outer coil to have poor spacing so I wrapped the inner coil with corrugated cardboard and taped it fairly tight before starting the outer coil. It worked beautifully! My intention was to use a propane torch to burn out the cardboard but I didn’t want to char the beautiful shine on my perfect coil (before the photo shoot) so I soaked it in hot water and it came out in many little pieces. It actually took more time to remove the cardboard than winding the coil.

Things I’ve learned along the way.

1) Don’t let anybody tell you being stubborn doesn’t pay.
2) You fellow distillers are awesome. Thanks for all the great advice!
3) You fellow distillers are awesome.
4) You fellow distillers are awesome.

[HookLine]

Well done. Good idea with the cardboard to give some space between the two coils. One problem with some other coils made on that kind of winder is that the outer coil sits right on the inner coil with no space between them. Your cardboard trick that solves problem.

1) Don’t let anybody tell you being stubborn doesn’t pay.

Stubborn = persistent = result.

One small suggestion. The spacing between the turns on each coil should be no more than the diameter of the tubing. The coil will still work fine if it is greater, it is just wasting space if they are too far apart.

[Bug Man]

You can go to a plumbing supply house or Home Depot and get a copper bending coil. They are fairly cheap and come in sizes 1/4 inch and 3/8 inch. Just slip in over the copper and bend to appropriate radius.

[manu de hanoi]

the spacer seems a bit of over engineering, when donem just manually twist the outer coil so that the loops become bigger and there is your spacing.

[cracksbacks]

You can go to a plumbing supply house or Home Depot and get a copper bending coil. They are fairly cheap and come in sizes 1/4 inch and 3/8 inch. Just slip in over the copper and bend to appropriate radius.

i tried that with massive failure...kinks all over the place, impossible to accurately shape the coil and in the end a wasted 10' of copper. i will be making a winding rig as described in this thread thi seek or so.

[Oaty]

I was hoping that you'd continue Minime. Awesome job......!!! Nice pics!!!

[snuffy]

Anybody ever made a coil wrench? Simple and you can bend right down to minimum diameter.



You can sort of see two coils of 1/2" tube that were wound around that 4" tank. The hole in the plywood is the same size as the tank. The wheel is the cutout from the hole. There is a groove in the edge of the wheel and it is mounted with two fender washers and a nylock nut so it turns and just clears the tube. The band clamp on the tank is used to secure the end of the tube.

Optimally, you match the curvature of the tube with the groove and mount two slightly larger discs so they contact the form - preventing getting it cocked. Quick and dirty dirty like this works fine, you just have to pay a little more attention as you spin the coil.

It automatically winds even spaced coils. The idea came from here:

http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/pipe/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[minime]

Anybody ever made a coil wrench? Simple and you can bend right down to minimum diameter.
You can sort of see two coils of 1/2" tube that were wound around that 4" tank. The hole in the plywood is the same size as the tank. The wheel is the cutout from the hole. There is a groove in the edge of the wheel and it is mounted with two fender washers and a nylock nut so it turns and just clears the tube. The band clamp on the tank is used to secure the end of the tube.

Optimally, you match the curvature of the tube with the groove and mount two slightly larger discs so they contact the form - preventing getting it cocked. Quick and dirty dirty like this works fine, you just have to pay a little more attention as you spin the coil.
It automatically winds even spaced coils. The idea came from here:

http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/pipe/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Looks simple but could you wind a double coil with it?

[snuffy]

I haven't done it, but it should be easy: 1) wind first coil; 2) slip thinwall tube over coil to get larger former; 3): drill new axle hole for wheel to move out to new bending radius; 4) bend second layer of coil. If the first coil was perfectly spaced, you might not need the thinwall tube.

I tend to avoid procedures with the word "perfect" in it.

[Haus479]

I tried packing the tubing with salt, worked great. I ended up with a great coil, however it was packed full of salt. I was able to shake out the salt from the first few inches, but unable to get it all out. I have tried hooking it up to a hose to flush it out but I fear that it has created a salt dam. It has been soaking for 3 days now and I believe it is a lost cause. The coil was wrapped around a ¾ inch pipe which allows the coil to fit perfectly inside a 1½ pipe. I am still looking for suggestions for my next attempt.

[manu de hanoi]

put the wet coil on a fire and run away

[Haus479]

put the wet coil on a fire and run away

Thanks
As this is my first still, I’m sure that once it is completed I’ll be making a trip to the scrap yard to sell all of my failed attempts. I just hope that I don’t have too many more failures, or I may have to rent t truck for the trip.

[memetic]

I filled my 1/4" tubing with water and froze it. I had absolutely no problems wrapping my coil with ice in it. I don't know if it is the best way, but it didn't fail for me. When I was done, I just left the new condenser coil out and the ice melted. My coil came out really nice.

[rad14701]

I tried packing the tubing with salt, worked great. I ended up with a great coil, however it was packed full of salt. I was able to shake out the salt from the first few inches, but unable to get it all out. I have tried hooking it up to a hose to flush it out but I fear that it has created a salt dam. It has been soaking for 3 days now and I believe it is a lost cause. The coil was wrapped around a ¾ inch pipe which allows the coil to fit perfectly inside a 1½ pipe. I am still looking for suggestions for my next attempt.

Boil the coil in a pot of water and the salt should eventually dissolve...

[Haus479]

Boil the coil in a pot of water and the salt should eventually dissolve...

Thanks I'll give it a try.
I thought Manu was just kidding.

[Mutts]

What is the best way to fill tubing with salt to make a coil???
I have found it to be difficult .
Mutts

[olddog]

Just make a funnel out of paper, stick it to the tube with some tape, and then fill the tube, tapping it to get the salt to the bottom.


OD

[Bushman]

Some folks say not to unwind the coil, I find it easier to fill with salt. I have a small funnel that is the same diameter as the coil and I tape it to the end. I then tape the other end of the tube. I start putting salt in and then like OD said tap it to the bottom, I also have a small ladder I stand on to allow gravity to help along the way.

[Bushman]

I tried packing the tubing with salt, worked great. I ended up with a great coil, however it was packed full of salt. I was able to shake out the salt from the first few inches, but unable to get it all out. I have tried hooking it up to a hose to flush it out but I fear that it has created a salt dam. It has been soaking for 3 days now and I believe it is a lost cause. The coil was wrapped around a ¾ inch pipe which allows the coil to fit perfectly inside a 1½ pipe. I am still looking for suggestions for my next attempt.

I roll it and shake as much out before I start blowing through it with my compressor. I repeat this process until I have most of it out then I soak it in warm water and that seems to dislodge the rest. Takes patients and time, that is why a lot of people don't use salt but for me I am willing to take the time as the coil does not flatten as much. Flattening shouldn't effect performance as a kink will but I just like taking pride in my finished work.

[olddog]

Some folks say not to unwind the coil, I find it easier to fill with salt

If you straighten out the coil you will loose the annealed properties and need to re-anneal it, it is better to just let the tail end drop so it forms sort of a corkscrew and tap the salt down, it will make it easier to bend into the coil without kinking.


OD

[Bushman]

Some folks say not to unwind the coil, I find it easier to fill with salt

If you straighten out the coil you will loose the annealed properties and need to re-anneal it, it is better to just let the tail end drop so it forms sort of a corkscrew and tap the salt down, it will make it easier to bend into the coil without kinking.


OD

Interesting, I will have to do some research on this, when you buy it it is in a loose coil so it takes very little to straighten. I have made over 5 coils and have never had a problem. Currently I have been using mine for over 8 months.

[olddog]

Interesting, I will have to do some research on this, when you buy it it is in a loose coil so it takes very little to straighten. I have made over 5 coils and have never had a problem.

When copper is annealed, it changes its properties and makes it soft and pliable, if you then work this copper, bending, shaping, hammering etc, the pliability goes, although you have been successful, it is easier in its annealed state. You will notice that once the coil is formed, the copper becomes a lot more rigid, due to being worked.


OD

[rad14701]

Virtually every topic on winding coils includes discussion about work hardening... I've never filled copper before winding a coil and no longer unwind it prior to winding... I go directly from coiled annealed copper to the final condenser coil... Keep the curvature of the copper in the same direction and you should be able to wind without kinking or flattening as long as the mandrel is at least 3X the diameter of the annealed copper... Coil slowly so the copper doesn't generate too much heat and allow it to cool before proceeding... Yes, the copper heats up during the winding process and that heat contributes to kinking and flattening... Be at one with the copper...

[manu de hanoi]

Virtually every topic on winding coils includes discussion about work hardening... I've never filled copper before winding a coil and no longer unwind it prior to winding... I go directly from coiled annealed copper to the final condenser coil... Keep the curvature of the copper in the same direction and you should be able to wind without kinking or flattening as long as the mandrel is at least 3X the diameter of the annealed copper... Coil slowly so the copper doesn't generate too much heat and allow it to cool before proceeding... Yes, the copper heats up during the winding process and that heat contributes to kinking and flattening... Be at one with the copper...

I'd like to see a video of you winding a 6 mm tube around a 1.8cm mandrel without filling

[rad14701]

Virtually every topic on winding coils includes discussion about work hardening... I've never filled copper before winding a coil and no longer unwind it prior to winding... I go directly from coiled annealed copper to the final condenser coil... Keep the curvature of the copper in the same direction and you should be able to wind without kinking or flattening as long as the mandrel is at least 3X the diameter of the annealed copper... Coil slowly so the copper doesn't generate too much heat and allow it to cool before proceeding... Yes, the copper heats up during the winding process and that heat contributes to kinking and flattening... Be at one with the copper...

I'd like to see a video of you winding a 6 mm tube around a 1.8cm mandrel without filling

I've done 1/4" over both 5/8" and 3/4" mandrels multiple times...

[olddog]

I must admit, I don't use salt either, but I do not unwind the coil to retain the annealing.


OD

[manu de hanoi]

I'd like to see a video of you winding a 6 mm tube around a 1.8cm mandrel without filling

I've done 1/4" over both 5/8" and 3/4" mandrels multiple times...

sure, but a video is better than a 1000 words. I can't do it myself without filling.

[rad14701]

sure, but a video is better than a 1000 words. I can't do it myself without filling.

Yeah... Haven't mastered video yet... Tried to video my wash fermenting yesterday and it was terrible... One of those newfangled things I need to get perfected at some point... I have a lot of little videos I'd like to make...

[ArchitectJS]

Water expands when it freezes. End result will be split copper tubing.

Saw this thread while doing a search and thought I'd add---

Saw the show "How its made" about trumpets. once the cone of the trumpet is made, they are filled with a water/detergent mix to maintain there shape while bending. The detergent gives the ice a more elastic quality during the bending. Don't know the ratio or much more than that. I thought someone might like to give the process a try.