Easiest way to obtain neutral tasting vodka?

[notneo]

Hello,

I have been reading through the parent site, the forums and the Compleat Distiller. I'll admit I have browsed some sections and not paid 100% attention but I now have a pretty wide range of surface knowledge

My question is what is the easiest way to obtain neutral alcohol (aka vodka). I am not concerned about % but have the impression that 95% does not necessarily mean it is cleaner than 80%. I am looking for clean product above 40% to which I can dilute as needed.

By easier I mean both to construct and to use. I am flexible in that I am happy for it to be harder to build if it is much easier to use and requires less attention. Obviously I don't want to build a still that's challenging and requires me to hold its hand.



What motivated me to ask is that even at 95% or so I still read people talking about or alluding to the wash. I would have thought if you distill it that high you could use whatever wash you wanted and it wouldn't make a difference (eg Turbo or what have you), that's what's got me thining that % might not be the be all and end all after all and that if I pay attention to my wash a simplier still may work fine for my needs.

Cheers guys,

[eternalfrost]

well it is sort of a mix between the two...

if you use a reflux and get it up to 95% it wont make a huge ammount of difference what you started with. ive run some really nasty smelling stuff that went kinda funky while fermenting and it turned out just fine after being boosted to 95% and watered down.

but that said, it is deffinately worth it to start with a good wash. not so much for the final product (i WILL make a difference in the final though) but with a nicer wash you will waste less by getting smaller heads sections and sharper cuts.

it really is never worth it to use turbos. aim for a 10-12% wash and let it take its own time over a week or two with plain yeast and you will not be dissapointed.

to answer your main question, a proper reflux column is by FAR the easiest and best way for neutral.

[Dnderhead]

The 94,000$ question what is that 5% ? if it is off taste then you vodka is off, lower % wash helps but grain as wheat is better and the best
neutral so I hear is rice . running sugar wash several times cutting withe water between makes something decent.

[pintoshine]

Get a copy of Dr. Stones book. It has all the info you need. He makes about the worst wash you can make but his method makes great vodka. Stripping still and a good offset head or bokakob slant plate will give you great results with care and attention to the details.

[punkin]

I use mollasses as feedstock as per pints method and it makes a very nice neutral. I couldn't imagine being able to gag down more than a mouthfull or two of the wash though...
Gunna do an experiment soon with some WPOSW and see if i can tell the difference.
I'm guessing i will, but it won't be much.

I'd like to know your opinion on this Pint, as i'm sure you've tried both methods.

[notneo]

it really is never worth it to use turbos. aim for a 10-12% wash and let it take its own time over a week or two with plain yeast and you will not be dissapointed.

to answer your main question, a proper reflux column is by FAR the easiest and best way for neutral.

When you say proper reflux do you mean a compound / fractioning column, a reflux w/ condensor essentially? Or simply just a column that is packed with some sort of material?

[eternalfrost]

just to let you know notneo, any differences the big-gun veterans are discussing here are definitely into the realm of connoisseur

just about anything you make in reflux column will be far far above anything you can get at your local liquor shop. so while there is differences between say a sugar wash and an all-grain, it is like the difference between two fancy french wines compared to the $10 box wine

[eternalfrost]

When you say proper reflux do you mean a compound / fractioning column, a reflux w/ condensor essentially? Or simply just a column that is packed with some sort of material?

sorry you cought me in the middle of posting

i mean any of the tried-and-true models. a offset vapor management, or slant plate bokakob seem to be the favorites around here.

by 'proper reflux' i mean anything with at least 3-4 feet of packing height and some form of reflux

[notneo]

Yep I get you. Looks like there's no short cuts then I will need to go all out if I want pure product. Was thinking I could substitute a good wash and forget about the reflux by condensation (besides what the packing would do).

Cheers,

[punkin]

Yep I get you. Looks like there's no short cuts then I will need to go all out if I want pure product. Was thinking I could substitute a good wash and forget about the reflux by condensation (besides what the packing would do).

Cheers,

You can make a very fine spirit in the Vodka vein by potstilling. My Lime Vodka is extremely popular amongst my mates and their girls, but it's a long way from neutral and potstilling is also very much a learned craft, rather different in some ways to driving a reflux still.
None of it is simple or easy until you know what you're doing, and i've found that after twelve months i'm still a complete learner.
You certainly can take a good wash and potstill carefully a few times to make a good vodka, just probably not what people would define as neutral.

Both branches of the craft require a certain amount of dedication, budget and commitment though, not something you're gunna get good at by scanning stuff and winging it.






That'sWhyILoveItSoMuchPunkin

[eternalfrost]

the stuff i make on my reflux column isnt very fun to drink just straight shots as vodka... it has zero flavor and hardly any burn. it hardly seems like you are even truely drinking something that is actually 80 proof, in fact on multiple occasions ive had friends make me prove it with a alcometer lol. i use it almost exclusively for mixed drinks or cocktails and as a base for making fruit liqueurs, hard ciders and things of that sort

the best part is such purity gives you zero hangover

some of the most plesant vodka ive had straight was made with triple distill on a potstill from potatoes but it was far from a nutral flavor

[notneo]

Both branches of the craft require a certain amount of dedication, budget and commitment though, not something you're gunna get good at by scanning stuff and winging it.

I completely agree, but as with all things you need to start somewhere and that's what I'm trying to suss out, where to start otherwise it might be months and I trust you guys for prodding me and others as you have in the right direction

the stuff i make on my reflux column isnt very fun to drink just straight shots as vodka... it has zero flavor and hardly any burn.

Yep that's cool with me I never drink Vodka straight, it's as you said for cocktails, mixes and liquers Out of interest what sort of still do you have?

[big worm]

rice or winos for the cleanest neutral

[rad14701]

As others have pointed out, with a true neutral spirit you don't get much flavor carrying over... But that last 5% could be water, or heads, or tails... That's where the off-taste and hangover difference comes into play...

If you're just starting out and aren't sure how deep you want to go into the craft, you don't have to dive in and go big right at the start... If you just want to know what comes out of a still you can build as low tech as you're comfortable with and just run some cheap wine through it... Then, if the craft still has your interest, you can go bigger and more complex... The difference is in whether you are a curiosity seeker, due to what you've seen on TV, or whether you really want to crank out large quantities of fine spirits and are willing to invest the time and effort...

Good luck... Sounds like you've been doing some in-depth reading and just need a few areas polished...

[brewmaker1]

I want to throw in that no matter what you build, you will need to hold it's hand. Some are easier to control, but none are set and forget. You will need to plan on setting with the still the entire run, or bad things can happen (safety wise).

On the other note about washes and flavors. I jumped into this because I had 55 gallons of sour beer that I couldn't justify throwing out. I bought a still with a two piece 3" column, then found this site and read for about a month before I was brave enough to actually fire up the still for spirits. The kettle is only 30 liters so I had a chance to try several different ways of running the beer. First few runs were just with the head as a pot still. After a stripping run and a spirit run. The spirit still had a funky smell from the hops, but tasted good. After setting on carbon for a month and airing for another week, it turned out to be a damn fine whiskey. The next few batches were run just once through the column set up for reflux (no stripping run). It produced a nice 93% spirit that smelled and tasted very good and smooth with no carbon and only a week of airing. Friends compare it to a good vodka. I finished off the beer with stripping runs then a reflux spirit run. It hit the 95% mark all through the hearts run, and even without airing had no smell (other than alcohol), but it wasn't as smooth as the single reflux runs. After airing for a week, it smoothed out but has no flavor. It's great for a base to make liqueurs.

I still don't have the knowledge to recommend one design over another, but being able to convert from pot to reflux is a big plus. The other advantage is making proper cuts with a reflux is much easier.

[eternalfrost]

Out of interest what sort of still do you have?

2" bokakob slant plate on a beer keg

heres a thread about how i made most of it. it works great for doing striping runs if you take out all the packing in the column. you will for sure want to do multiple stripping runs then final spirit run to get a good clean product.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8410

i would also look into a vapor management setup, there have been some realy good in-depth threads about them here lately and they deffinatly have some advantages over a simple bokakob. but you wouldnt be dissapointed either way

i usually use something like wineos plain sugar wash. basically sugar, tomato paste, some epsom salt, some lemon juice, a multivitamin, and plain bakers yeast. im very happy with it since it is very fast, cheap, and easy to prepare in large quantities.