high abv vrs. low abv

[big worm]

wino made a comment about low abv washes and smoother drink. that got me thinking.....using distiller yeast i push past the 12% into 15-16% or higher washes. sence i've been monkeying around with grain mashes no sugar added, the ferments seem to work faster due to much lower abv's and settle cleaner and quicker....not running any of this yet makes me wonder if when i do start stripping and running if the lower % washes will be easyer to cut because of less heads and tails in the wash to start with. or will it be about the same? i know low% washes make less final product but, they seem to work off better in the fermenter and that has to lead to a higher quality final product.... right?

[minime]

wino made a comment about low abv washes and smoother drink. that got me thinking.....using distiller yeast i push past the 12% into 15-16% or higher washes. sence i've been monkeying around with grain mashes no sugar added, the ferments seem to work faster due to much lower abv's and settle cleaner and quicker....not running any of this yet makes me wonder if when i do start stripping and running if the lower % washes will be easyer to cut because of less heads and tails in the wash to start with. or will it be about the same? i know low% washes make less final product but, they seem to work off better in the fermenter and that has to lead to a higher quality final product.... right?

My opinion is it's a compromise between quality and energy. WPOSW makes amazingly neutral spirits but takes extra energy to distill the amount of alcohol I get from 14% washes. I've tried higher than 14% washes and was not happy with the product but would never presume to tell somebody that ferments to 18% they've got it all wrong. I'm happy with my 14%, Hookline's happy with 12%, Wineo's happy with 10% or less and some guys are running with all grain mashes at 6%. Whatever floats your boat. If you are happy with your product that's all that matters. For some it's all about quality........for others not so much.......... I try to never sit in judgment unless they offer me a drink and ask my opinion.

[Tater]

I find with fruits more so then with grains.Grains for me anyway have higher proof mash/washes then I get with fruits.So with fruits I run three times with grain usually only once or twice.I find that cuts on either have less of a grace period.Till your use to them Id pay closer attention to run then one I was use to doing.

[rad14701]

I only use bakers yeast and have been quite satisfied with washes finishing in the 14% range... I never try using more sugar than needed for this range and concentrate my efforts more towards refining a recipe that ferments in less than two weeks... If I can end up with a recipe that yields a consistent 14% ferment in one week or less I'll be more than happy... Considering how I'm shooting for neutral spirits the added ingredients are just for nutrients that promote rapid fermentation rather than flavor... That doesn't mean that I don't enjoy the flavor of a wash distilled in pot still mode, however... My ultimate goal is ferments that complete without becoming stuck, distill clean, and don't need filtering... But that's just me...

[big worm]

yea i planed on slow small collections. i'm figuring that its not gonna be a standard ujssm run so i don't really know what to expect. i guess a few runs on my new grain bill will learn me fast enuff. it all good. its just not the same as a wash with inverted sugars added. i can't describe it...im not good that way...it was just diff. fast and clean

[RumBull]

I have experimented alot with my Rum. You get plenty of good advice here on the forum, but honestly very few of us have tasted each others hooch to know if we should be listening to them or not. I take the advice that makes sense to me and then test it for myself. So do the same with mine!
I have tried (some times by accident) high alc.%, low %, fast ferment, slow, warm, cold, and quite a few yeast strains.
IMHO, If you are after smooth clean spirit, a quick ferment is better (not turbo). If you can get 12+% in a couple of days, great. If it takes a couple of weeks to get 12+%, you are going to have more flavors, good and bad, to deal with. An 8% wash that can ferment, clear and distill in a few days is worth the extra fuel and lower yield than a 14% that takes a few weeks. Play around with your yeast. If you are lucky you can find one that gives a good flavor, nice alc. yield and ferments in a couple of days.

[big worm]

as far as the yeast go's i got a 22# block of distillers. i'm gonna be using that for a while and then some

[Hack]

as far as the yeast go's i got a 22# block of distillers. i'm gonna be using that for a while and then some

I bought a pound of distillers yeast a year ago and still have most of it left. For the last few monthes I've just been recycling yeast from the last batch.

[Thirsty Bob]

I bought a pound of distillers yeast a year ago and still have most of it left. For the last few monthes I've just been recycling yeast from the last batch.

Hmmm, I thought the yeast died, when all the sugars were converted or when the %ABV got too high.

How do you put some aside for the next ferment? Do you keep some of it cool to stop the ferment?

[eternalfrost]

I bought a pound of distillers yeast a year ago and still have most of it left. For the last few monthes I've just been recycling yeast from the last batch.

Hmmm, I thought the yeast died, when all the sugars were converted or when the %ABV got too high.

How do you put some aside for the next ferment? Do you keep some of it cool to stop the ferment?

check out UJSM in the recipe section.
basically you leave a portion of the wash in the fermenter then top it back off with fresh wash and/or backset

i am just starting to experiment with it but i can tell you the same method works for rum and sugar washes for at least 3-4 generations (thats as far as i am so far, still working fine)

i believe you can save live yeast for weeks/months by putting a jar in the fridge

[rad14701]

Thirsty Bob, the yeast won't die in a sugar wash if the sugars have all been converted as long as the ABV hasn't been pushed beyond the yeasts limits, which would usually leave some unconverted sugars... If you run a lower ABV wash than the yeast can handle, and have some nutrients left over, then the yeast should survive to fight another day... I don't do this with sugar washes but some members do and it is common practice with grain mashes...

[big worm]

I find with fruits more so then with grains.Grains for me anyway have higher proof mash/washes then I get with fruits.So with fruits I run three times with grain usually only once or twice.I find that cuts on either have less of a grace period.Till your use to them Id pay closer attention to run then one I was use to doing.

by less of a grace period on the fruit and grains,do you mean less total product so less room for error on cuts? or the dividing line is dif.? i remember on the plum brandy i cut into the heads a bit. even after airing out they were still there,so i redistilled and got them out. i guess some folks can stand small amount of heads but, i just can't hack em.

[Tater]

The dividing line between cuts.Seems to me they are farther apart on single runs.And get closer in mutable runs.I usually will make forshot and little head cut on stripping runs. But only do a good tails cut on final run.

[Thirsty Bob]

Rad, Eternal:

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought adding backset to the next ferment was for nutrients (dead yeast) and I guess it would be if one fermented to the high teens. I didn't think about active yeast carryover, and wherever I read it, it wasn't clear. I am also still fighting my old concept that sugar is food for yeast which is misleading at best.

At first, I doubt I will always have beer on the go, so I'll probably spend the money on more yeast, just not a 5 lb block.

Little by little......

Cheers,

Bob

[rad14701]

At first, I doubt I will always have beer on the go, so I'll probably spend the money on more yeast, just not a 5 lb block.

Here in the US you can check Sam's Club... I just purchased 2lbs of Fleischmann's, in 2 - 1lb blocks, for $4.16... I haven't put a dent in the first pound yet...

[Thirsty Bob]

Here in the US you can check Sam's Club... I just purchased 2lbs of Fleischmann's, in 2 - 1lb blocks, for $4.16... I haven't put a dent in the first pound yet...

I'm a Costco guy, but never looked. I'll be checking out sugar, yeast, molasses etc. in a whole different light.

Considering how cheap it is really, would pitching a little more yeast along with the backset speed up the ferment? (Assuming all other things equal, i.e. temp,sugar, nutrients etc.)

[Hack]

I thought adding backset to the next ferment was for nutrients (dead yeast) and I guess it would be if one fermented to the high teens. I didn't think about active yeast carryover, and wherever I read it,

I may be the one with the vocabulary problem here, but my understanding is that backset is what's left in the boiler after a run and you add a bit of it back into the fermenter for the next batch. This provides a sour mash flavor and is used also to help adjust the pH. The yeast in backset would be dead from being boiled during distillation. Where you get your live yeast from is transferring a bit of the sludge left in the bottom of the fermenter into your next ferment, and I think thats called dunder. If you are doing something like UJSM you are just putting more sugar water and backset on top of the grains and sludge in your fermenter for the next ferment. The live yeast is already there.

[Thirsty Bob]

I may be the one with the vocabulary problem here, but my understanding is that backset is what's left in the boiler

No, not at all Hack, 'tis I.

This is one of the toughest things for a newbie. Technical terms can easily be Googled, but the more arcane stuff (and outright slang) makes it a tough slog.

Some have subtle differences, some mean the same thing.

What I was talking about was the dregs in the fermenter, not the dregs in the boiler and I was being lazy. The Wiki glossary could do with a tune-up. I would be willing to help, if anyone is interested.

Bob

[Hack]

The Wiki is open for anyone willing to take the time to work on it. All you have to do is make yourself a user account. Go for it. The more of us that get into it, the better it will get.

[Thirsty Bob]

The Wiki is open for anyone willing to take the time to work on it. All you have to do is make yourself a user account. Go for it. The more of us that get into it, the better it will get.

Um, 'k.... thanks Hack, I think....

I'll stumble around and see what I can do but I don't want to stuff anything up. I think I will submit my definitions here first so we can have a right old barney.

[Hack]

The cool thing about the wiki is if you do stuff it up someone else can either undo it or fix it. There's not much to worry on. THere's several people talking about how the parent site could use some reworking. The wiki is the perfect place for us to do that. Just start dragging bits and pieces over and reworking them. The home site is large enough that if we are going to rework it it's going to take several people working at it.

[big worm]

12# corn
10gal water
enzymes
9 gal wash stripped out wide open ,tossed 200ml collected down to 23% ended up with 4 liters of 32% @59F

10# wheat
6 gal water
enzymes
stripped out 6 gal wash tossed 200ml collected down to 20% ended up with 2.4 liters of 35% @ 68F

that seem about right to yall? on a all grain conversion.

[Dnderhead]

Sound about right to me.

[big worm]

i thought so....now i understand the term "precious few liters"..punkin said that i think, the wheat tasted exactly how you said dunder...very mild and creamy. it would be pretty good alone, but maby better mixed with another grain. i have not yet tryed rye grain its next on the list. same as oats...i figure i need to taste each on its own then try to mix a good grain bill to suit my taste.
thanks

[Dnderhead]

Went to calc. Wheat came out to this--- SG 1.o48, FG 1.012= 4.8 abv,,6gal =100oz alcohol.total at35% of course the 1oo% of it including heads tales
and what you can git back

[big worm]

the wheat quit fermenting and was almost touching the black on hydromoter. do you think it converted out fairly well? or should it have been better?
edit.. maybe better to ask 10# wheat converted out would equal about 7# cane sugar...am i thinking right?

[Dnderhead]

Wanted to say some time wanted to make Wheat, rye , Barley ,corn or whatever elch I could come up with all separate, then experiment with blinding.
no sounds good

[big worm]

blending would be hard for me i think. i just want to figure out a ferment of grains that suits my taste. then get good at running it...lol i've run so much ujsm i kinda know what to expect there. i want to distill using water grain and heat only..ok yeast too. times may get hard and enzymes and sugar could get pricy...i'll always have water grain and heat.