Sterling Silver

[pHneutral]

Just curious if anyone knows about this..

Silver has s similar property to copper as to knocking off sulfur compounds. Would there be a problem using sterling as a bowl top for a pot still?

I ask because its an alloy of silver and copper, and I don't know its properties in this sort of application. Also because there are a lot of sterling punch bowls out there that are pretty much guaranteed to be sans lead, or anything else that might be in an old piece of copper.

[evilpsych]

let us know when you get it pulled togheter.. i don't see anything inherently wrong with this (other than the cost!!! ) I'd go to estate sales.. soldering it should be pretty darn easy too

[Dnderhead]

aren't most just plated?

[evilpsych]

aren't most just plated?

The cheap ones are.. but there are some solid sterling/coin silver stuff out there

[Ayay]

Yes a solid silver bowl would be great if you are lucky enough to find one. Silver turns black in the presence of sulphur - dunno whether the black would build up and flake off or just stay there. You could try suspending a small stirling silver thing inside the air space of the boiler and see what happens after a few runs. Might try that myself because stirling silver being the best heat conductor could be used in a small efficient condenser.

I would keep clear of silver plated 'silverware' because it is most often nickel silver underneath (marked EPNS) and nickel silver is really brass with some nickel in it. I know an antiques dealer who can tell solid silver from plated nickel silver by sniffing it; says nickel silver has a stinky smell. Also most silver plated stuff is lead soldered together and many have pewter handles, spouts or fancy borders around the rim etc all lead soldered on... everything is hidden by the silver plating.

[Husker]

Silver should patina, like copper. The patina is hard, and should keep it from dissolving (just like copper). It should not flake off, unless some acid is used, which dissolves the metal underneath.

Btw, yes, you 'can' smell plated material (some of it at least).

I buy scrap gold jewelry, and frequently people ask me to buy "silver". 98% is junk plated crap, and no way in hell, should you use that crap as a boiler lid. I really dislike buying sterling, there simply is very little 'value' in silver, and I only get 90% spot price from my refiner (get 98% spot for scrap karat gold). However, it would be nice to get some 3/8" od sterling tubing to build a condenser coil out of. Silver DOES transfer heat like no other material (quite a bit better than copper).

I would be a little concerned, as silver chloride and silver nitrate are created from being in an acidic environment (sulphuric acid, or nitric acid). I am not sure if it would be a problem at all, due to the same type environment will also dissolve copper (but not quite as fast, but also dissolves and creates chlorides and nitrates). Thus, if copper is usable then silver should be usable in the same environment. But note, silver chloride, silver nitrate are poisonous (but so are copper chloride and copper nitrate, so again, if copper works, silver probably also would).

Funny talking about using sterling, since everyone here has been bitchin so much the last couple years about the price of copper I figure, use stainless for the larger bulk parts, and copper for the important vapor path. Copper bottom would also be 'nice' if using external heat, such as flame, due to better heat transfer, but stainless does work pretty good, and does not use 'too' much more power. If the element is internal, then stainless would actually use LESS power, as the stainless would radiate less of the heat than an all copper boiler would.

H.

[rad14701]

I quite often have Modern Marvels chatting away on the TV while meandering here in the forums and it was in one of the recent episodes that I heard mention that silver, like copper, has natural antibacterial properties... Just how well ti would work in a still remains to be seen, I guess... I have been curious, however, to know whether it would work or not...

[snuffy]

* looks around for The Chemist *

I've also wondered about nickel. It's what makes stainless steel stainless. Nickel plated copper might be one way to avoid copper compounds forming in the condenser -- if nickel would be safe, that is.... Nickel plates directly onto copper, so it would be relatively inexpensive as plating goes.

FWIW, copper, silver and gold are all in the same column of the periodic table. All three can be hammered out into leaf only a few molecules thick. If you stack up copper, silver and gold leaf in alternating layers and then hammer them together, the molecules will interpenetrate and form an alloy at room temperature because the atoms are all about the same size and form the same type of crystal lattices.

A gold plated condenser wouldn't tarnish. If you wanted to spend the money on it. A fairly conspicuous form of consumption.

The sulfur-binding reaction takes place in the liquid phase, so the most effective place is inside the boiler.

[Ayay]

Husker you says it like it is!

Snuffy, I think chrome is what makes stainless stainless. Nickel is not in the same league as copper or silver and many people are allergig to it. Nickel plating was used in the old days before chrome was invented and is still used as an alloy to give yellow metals like brass and gold a white color. There is nickel steel for armor plating but that is another story.

Rad I've heard the same; google 'colloidal silver' for 1000's of hits on the wonderful antibiotic properties of silver. I read an article where if copper doorknobs were used in hospitals then those superbugs would die out instead of being carried from hand to hand. (Won't happen because hospitals can't afford to keep all that copper nice and shiny ).

[HookLine]

I ask because its an alloy of silver and copper

Alloys don't necessarily have the same properties as the separate components.

Silver/copper alloy is the basic component of silver brazes we use.

I would think it is pretty unlikely you will have any problems with that bowl, if it is just copper-silver.

[The Chemist]

* looks around for The Chemist *

Here I is...here I is...LOL

The sulfur-binding reaction takes place in the liquid phase, so the most effective place is inside the boiler.

Not necessarily...simple "binding" reactions, yes, but many sulfer compounds of the size we're dealing with, thiols, sulfides, horribly stinky mercaptans (b-mercaptoethanol is what they put in natural gas to make it revoltingly stinky...you buy a bottle of the stuff and it's labelled "STENCH"...and that's saying something, in chemistry circles...) are appreciably volatile, and volatility most always increases reactivity. It's that "adding energy" thing...

Copper, silver and gold; their 'neighbors to the left' nickel, palladium and platinum; and their 'neighbor to the right' zinc are, as a group, the most widely used catalytic metals. (Gold, in particular, is not as "inert" as people imagine...it doesn't easily oxidize, but that ain't all that can happen...)

So, I see no problem with a silver still...exept if it is lead-soldered, I'd stay away.

Jeez...what's next...carved sapphire bottle-stoppers???

[pHneutral]

Ha! Carved sapphire indeed. Then again, i can get synthetic pretty cheap....

I have access to wholesale silver products, so I think I'm gonna have to price out that condenser tube..hehehe.

Seriously though, thanks to all for the information here. I had thought that sterling would work ok, and fine silver even better (though it is much more rare to find second hand). I have testing gear for silver, and can tell the difference between alloys, so I should be all set as far as knowing if the thing really is silver or not, plated or not, lead or not.

See I have a silver bowl that will never get used for anything, and it's sitting gathering dust. I might consider using it as a bowl top for a pot still. I'll have to look around a bit more, but this is certainly a nifty idea. It's not as if I can't just send the stuff back to the refiner and get value out of it, so its not a locked in material.

Chemist, I thought they used thiophane too for smelliness in methane?

[zymos]

The sulfur-binding reaction takes place in the liquid phase, so the most effective place is inside the boiler.

Not necessarily...simple "binding" reactions, yes, but many sulfer compounds of the size we're dealing with, thiols, sulfides, horribly stinky mercaptans (b-mercaptoethanol is what they put in natural gas to make it revoltingly stinky...you buy a bottle of the stuff and it's labelled "STENCH"...and that's saying something, in chemistry circles...) are appreciably volatile, and volatility most always increases reactivity. It's that "adding energy" thing...

Maybe "most effective place" is debatable, but all these compounds definitely react with copper in liquid. It is used in wine making frequently, where there in only a liquid phase.

[snuffy]

When Alexander Plank was giving the distilling training I attended, the discussion was on materials the Christian Carl stills were built of. He favored copper over stainless for the boilers, but the main reason was the reaction with sulfur compounds. He wasn't always clear in his English and wasn't very responsive to questions.

I think he may have been meaning that the boiler was the largest surface area for copper (and thus neutralizing the sulfur before it got into the column). He was pretty adamant about copper for the liquid (boiling / rectifying) side and stainless for the condenser (because of copper salts forming in the condenser.) The type of copper used in the Christian Carl boilers was chosen because of its affinity for sulfur. He called it "red weldable copper."

He emphasized that the reaction took place in the liquid phase. I'm assuming the copper/sulfur compounds end up in the stillage.

I read somewhere that some whisky distillers put copper scrap in their boilers to trap the sulfur. This only makes sense if their boiler surface doesn't do the job.

[The Chemist]

Chemist, I thought they used thiophane too for smelliness in methane?

Actually, I think that may be the preferred odorant nowadays...I'm just 'old'...

[pHneutral]

*snip*

He emphasized that the reaction took place in the liquid phase. I'm assuming the copper/sulfur compounds end up in the stillage.

I read somewhere that some whisky distillers put copper scrap in their boilers to trap the sulfur. This only makes sense if their boiler surface doesn't do the job.

Ah.. so it lends more credence to putting in copper scrubbies in the boiler.. both as "stones" and to help in this.

Nice! I'll add it to my checklist

[cob]

colloidal silver is made from sterling silver through electrolysis it, is a suspension of silver particles, excess colloidal silver in the human body will turn your entire body blue permanantly. if you use an immersion heater proceed with extreem caution. you could spend the rest of your life as a smerf. cob

[Dnderhead]

That is great idea you could tell who the distillers are and who is bluffing.


(just look for the smerfs)

[kiwistiller]

haha I really thought cob was joking there, and then I wiki'ed it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[rad14701]

That is great idea you could tell who the distillers are and who is bluffing.


(just look for the smerfs)

Like THIS GUY, Dndrhead...???

[Husker]

Well,

I think it is time to shut the door on the use of silver. I knew of the great thermal properties, but also knew that silver had a habit of 'nitrating', and silver nitrate is not a substance to handle without special equipment and knowledge. Turning into a smurf really shuts the door on this material as being useful for any form of use in the distillation process (so it seems).

H.

[cob]

the circumstances that would lead to silver becoming a suspension in an electric still are pretty far fetched, low voltage leak, chemical electrolysis, etc. i ain't blue now and you don't see my hand up. and contrary to the reassurances of olddog on another thread i still think twice about silver solder (my personal concern) so i'll be using propane and i'm working on taper joints. so i'll buck a few centuries of tradition take away my birthday(or turn me blue) cob

[contrahead]

Following up: 10 yrs later.

This is what Papa Smurf and angyria or argyrosis look like. But he ate a steady diet of colloidal silver in the form of dietary supplements. There is also a rare blood disorder called methemoglobinemia that can also discolor the skin.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/internet- ... d=20368758

<blue people search on Google Images - 2019>