newbie questions. Soldier techniques, valve arm length?

[jody]

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to get some pointers from the experts...

1. Is there a technique to solder "butted" fittings - i.e. not a male/female type fit, but just butted together?
2. Is there a limit to the valve arm length/width that needs to be adhered to?
3. where do the folks in Canada get their valves from?



1._________technique to solder "butted" fittings
I can problaby explain this best with pictures.

I am trying to build a condenser that has four 1/4OD coming out of a 3/4 end cap. but I'm not exaclty sure how to solder this - I'm guessing very carefully, but wanted to know if you guys had any techniques.

--The two caps on the right will fit into the condenser(basically my leibig).


--they will be connected by four 1/4od soft copper lines. Here is one as an example.


--Here are the closups on what I will need to solder, and what I would like input on as to how I should do it.



I know I can just run a 1/2 right through the thing, and it will most likely be fine, but I will need to do the same joint for my coil where it joins the cold finger. Also, I think this will look pretty cool - at least until I seal it up never to be seen again...

--coil so far...


2._________limit to the valve arm length/width

--again, picture shows this...I can't find any 1-1/2 to 1/2 reducers, so I'm stuck with a really long arm before the valve.



-I have read that liquid might collect in there, so am I asking for trouble with all the reducers? Again, if I can figure out how to solder a "butted" joint, then I can probably just make one with an end cap and a reducer of any size to 1/2.

-Also, my current T is 2X2X1-1/2. Odly enough I can't find reducers, but I can get my hands on a 2X2X2 T for a pretty good price. Is it worth swapping that in?

3._________Getting valves in Canada
as per the picture above, I need a valve for this thing. I'm guessing I'm going to need to order one online.


Any way, big thanks to everyone who has posted...I'm learning lots, and to be honest, having a good time just building this thing. I think I'll be kind of sad once it's done.

Thanks,
J

[Ugly]

I don't know where in Canada you are, but Home Hardware can order any fitting you need. Stainless Valves are often available at a dairy supply or through order at hardware stores etc... I order my valves along with my other stuff like ferrules from the dairy supply, but I know I can also order from Mcmaster Carr etc.. I've also picked up three 1.5 inch SS ball valve off EBay for 100 bucks including shipping.

Soft soldering a butted set that is under stress isn't a really good way to go about it, you can get stress that will crack the solder, silver brazing can do this where soft solder can't. There's a big difference in material between soldering and brazing..

1 1/2 to 1/2 reducers are usually a 1 1/2 to 3/4 reducer with a 3/4 to 1/2 inch reducer BUSHING that goes directly inside the 3/4 inch neck on the 1 1/2 inch reducer.

[Dnderhead]

with the 1/2" threw the holes I'd clean the parts, place as you want, then "swag" with a tapered drift for a better
mechanical fit. with the 3/4 to 3/4" butt just cut a short piece of 3/4" pipe to fit between. butt joints should be
avoided if possible. if not then brazing whould be a better choice.

[jody]

thanks for the help guys - although it isn't really what I wanted to hear. I don't have a setup for silver brasing. If I try to simply solder this together is it certain to end in failure? There shouldn't be too much stress on the joints besides a small amout of water pressure.


Any way, a few more picutures of my progress...

--almost completed coil


--just need to do something with these joints...


--conderser pretty much fitted..




--and I was able to get my hands on a stainless valve..


It was threaded though...is it fine to use teflon tape?

J

[Dnderhead]

If you have a good "mechanical" fit the first joint wont come apart when you do the next.

[rad14701]

Your reflux condenser is looking good, Jody... Soldering will work fine...

Not sure if that big heavy liebig will be worth the time, effort, and weight, however... Have you considered the fully laden weight once it's full of water...??? That thing is a beast, and definitely over-engineered for its intended purpose... Costly too... You're definitely thinking outside the box...

[Puma]

It was threaded though...is it fine to use teflon tape?

Should be pipe thread and not need tape. At least that's what it looks like in the photo.

[jody]

... Soldering will work fine...

Sweet..at least I know now that it is "possible" for this to work.

Not sure if that big heavy liebig will be worth the time, effort, and weight, however... Have you considered the fully laden weight once it's full of water...??? That thing is a beast, and definitely over-engineered for its intended purpose... Costly too... You're definitely thinking outside the box...

Yea, no doubt...I had the pipe and some of the fittings left over from something else. I can't buy foot long sections, so I would have needed to buy a 12 foot length of a smaller size. Figured it would actually be cheaper to use this. True enough though, it is a beast. I'll try to keep it close to the column and brace it off of it as well, so hopefully the weight won't be a huge deal.

[jody]

Should be pipe thread and not need tape. At least that's what it looks like in the photo.

gotcha..I'll skip the tape then...

[jody]

If you have a good "mechanical" fit the first joint wont come apart when you do the next.

Yea, they stay in place pretty good on their own, just need to seal them up so they don't leak.

I'm going to flare the ends on the output consender "lines" to make sure they stay put, and do them all at once(one end at a time). I think this is what you meant in your first post..I just clued in now about what you were getting at.

[Dnderhead]

I thank you got it, a good fit counts a bunch. if it fits like your coolant line "look" just tap something tapered in the pipe ,like a punch so it expands to fit.
another thing Iv done is to drill hole smaller than the pipe, then drive something the same size as pipe threw to expand hole to right size.
this also leaves a "dimple" for solder.

[HookLine]

Good work on the reflux coil.

[eternalfrost]

2._________limit to the valve arm length/width

--again, picture shows this...I can't find any 1-1/2 to 1/2 reducers, so I'm stuck with a really long arm before the valve.

-I have read that liquid might collect in there, so am I asking for trouble with all the reducers? Again, if I can figure out how to solder a "butted" joint, then I can probably just make one with an end cap and a reducer of any size to 1/2.

-Also, my current T is 2X2X1-1/2. Odly enough I can't find reducers, but I can get my hands on a 2X2X2 T for a pretty good price. Is it worth swapping that in?

first off, you can simply use a plain liebig, just a single tube inside another for a VM. yours is pretty neat idea but overcomplicates things. since your almost done with it, use it if it works, but dont waste too much time/money on it.

the gradual reduction is actually a good thing. sharp corners and reductions are a bad thing that can screw up the vapor flow causing wierd things.

i dont know if they ship to canada. but mcmaster.com carries just about any tool or hardware you can think of at good prices. something like half a million items! i bought 100% of my things there besides my keg and hydrometer hha