im new

[southpaw]

I have decided to try distilling because it sounds like alot of fun creating your own hard liquor. I have learned a great deal of information from this forum. At the moment I am building a distiller from parts that i have either found, or purchased for a low price. The parts so far include stainless steel, brass, and copper. when its finished i will post pictures of it. i plan on using the bird watcher sugar wash as a first run.

[Fourway]

Brass generally has some lead in it.
It gets used by some folks, but it's not in the list of what you'd call "best practices" materials.

For your very first still I'd strongly advise you to leave out the brass.

[southpaw]

the brass pipe that im using was used by the county for putting in water mains. it fell off someones truck. im pretty sure that its safe. its there an easy way to test it?

[rad14701]

While the brass pipe may be safe for transport of cold water that doesn't mean it will be safe for use in a hot ethanol vapor environment where leeching can take place... You can use a lead test kit to check it...

I just posted a link to information about brass elsewhere here in the forums a few hours ago... The primary ingredients in brass are copper and zinc... Zinc isn't much better than lead...

[Dnderhead]

new brass fittings a lot lower in lead than before , was at 3% , now .20% by 2010 they are all supposed to be changed. many of the companies
have changed all ready.some are using bismuth instead of lead

[Fourway]

none of that stuff matters really. it is a grey area material and this is the novice distiller's area.
you don't start teaching the ABC's by explaining to the kids about special cases where it's grammatically correct to split infinitives and you don't tell someone brand spanking new to distilling that he ought to consider using anything that isn't copper, stainless or glass in his very first still.

in answer to his very first post.

[aussiebrewman]

hang on so pl***ics are bad bad bad, yet brass is used and allowed to be discussed, dispite relatively high amounts of toxic lead.

the rules of this forum appear to contain large amounts of hypocracy.

[HookLine]

There is a known way to remove any surface lead from brass fittings.

Two parts plain white vinegar and one part 3% hydrogen peroxide. Soak the brass fitting until it goes a nice golden yellow buttery colour, typically 2-4 minutes.

So maybe not so much 'hypocracy'.


Having said that, stainless and copper are clearly the best choices. Some members are swapping any brass fittings on their gear for stainless or copper ones.

[Dnderhead]

I just thought it was grate news that they are removing the lead. this new material will be marked with the manufacturer logo and NL

[theholymackerel]

There is a misconception about brass and lead here.

Lead has not been an alloy component of brass since ancient times.

Modern brass fittin's only have lead as surface lead, or not at all. The tiny bit of lead is only used sometimes as a mold release. Many modern manufacturers have special heatin' and coolin' of their molds to help with the release and use no lead at all. There are also modern sprays of manmade materials that are used as a mold release too.

If ya have a modern brass fittin' and yer worried about lead all ya gotta do is the soak that Hookline suggested. That will take care of the surface lead.

If yer still worried about lead and brass, then by all means use stainless or copper fittin's.

[Fourway]

hang on so pl***ics are bad bad bad, yet brass is used and allowed to be discussed, dispite relatively high amounts of toxic lead.

the rules of this forum appear to contain large amounts of hypocracy.

This is the new users section... if 8 posts in you are interested in starting a board politics flame war please take it to Off Topic where we hold ritual bloodletting.
The fact that you are following me telling the people to shut up about telling the new user that brass can be ok sometimes... with this over the top flame about what hypocrites we are is strange... I just told the nice people to STFU about brass... didn't you see that?

There is a known way to remove any surface lead from brass fittings.

Yes there is... but is it a new user approved technique that makes brass as safe as houses or is it an advanced tinkerer technique for rendering a questionable material "safer"?
I think it's the latter.

There is a misconception about brass and lead here.

Lead has not been an alloy component of brass since ancient times.

Doesn't salvaged county water line that fell off a truck count as possibly ancient?

I lead tested a hand full of old and new brass bits that I treated that way a few years ago and the results were mixed... one piece stopped turning the test strip red and started turning it black... another made the strip a little pink even after multiple treatments.

The guy said "I'm planning to use found brass" on his very first post on this board.

I do not think there should be any confusion about this.
Using antique brass is never advisable, Using any kind of brass is not a new user technique.
Don't do it.

[Puma]

Yes there is... but is it a new user approved technique that makes brass as safe as houses or is it an advanced tinkerer technique for rendering a questionable material "safer"?
I think it's the latter.

who the hell are you to tell others to withhold information? What's this "new user approved technique" BS? Why are you assuming that just because someone is posting for the first time that they are an idiot? For all you know southpaw may have a Phd in physics. Your sounding a bit too elitist for my taste.

I do not think there should be any confusion about this.
Using antique brass is never advisable, Using any kind of brass is not a new user technique.
Don't do it.

FYI you have no controle over what someone uses or doesn't use. If you think they may be doing something unsafe, all you have to do is say that. There is not reason for you to be on this "high horse."

We are all here for sharing information, and learning. Your coming across as if you have the word of god from on high, that attitude is counter to learning and sharing. If I were to make a guess, I would say you are trying to establish dominance and assert your power. If you are, that is off purpose for this site and a hinderance. I have found your posts in the thread to be disrespectful and offensive. It would be nice if you would provide information wile showing respect for other members.

And for the record, antique brass is never used for new water mains.

[Fourway]

who the hell are you to tell others to withhold information? What's this "new user approved technique" BS? Why are you assuming that just because someone is posting for the first time that they are an idiot? For all you know southpaw may have a Phd in physics.

if he's learning the basics he doesn't need a lot of people muddying the water with non basic advice.
He's not locked into the new users area, he can go get all this info anywhere on the board.
We say Copper, Stainless or Glass for a reason.
Yes other materials get used. Yes other materials can be safe.
Those three though are guaranteed to be safe. there is no question... no guessing.

The point of having a novice area is to keep stuff simple and straight forward.
When someone posts advice in the novice area they aren't just advising the person asking the question, they are advising ever person who will come along for years to come searching for the same info.
I think advanced info like for example how to safely use advanced materials, belongs in the threads on the main main area of the forum devoted to same, not in the novice section.

I'm not trying to control anyone's access to information, I'm trying to keep the novice area a novice area.
I'm also not interested in garbaging up the novice area with flamewars so if you want to fight with me do it in private messages or or if you want it to be a spectator thing call me out in off topic.

If I were to make a guess, I would say you are trying to establish dominance and assert your power.

No... not really... just as I said trying to keep the area neat. which as far as I'm aware is what moderators are expected to do.

And for the record, antique brass is never used for new water mains.

As far as I am aware... no kind of brass is used for new water mains.
I assumed this was old dug up brass from old water mains... and I realize my assumption could be wrong but I stand by the idea that brass isn't a novice material and ambiguity or no "brass that fell off someone's truck" should not be part of your very first still.

[Puma]

if he's learning the basics he doesn't need a lot of people muddying the water with non basic advice.

What constitutes basic and non-basic advice? The subject is brass (and YES brass is used in modern water mains too). Others, including another mod have added information about brass, how to deal with it, what the risks are, and what is happening in the brass industry. That is good information and shouldn't be censored, or told that they shouldn't provide that info.

If someone reads in the novice section that brass is evil, then they read in other sections about how people are dealing with brass, or the lack of lead in brass, they will wonder whats going on. "Oh, I'm sorry Sr. but brass in the novice section has a different composition than brass in the advanced section."

There is a misconception about brass and lead here.

Lead has not been an alloy component of brass since ancient times.

Modern brass fittin's only have lead as surface lead, or not at all. The tiny bit of lead is only used sometimes as a mold release. Many modern manufacturers have special heatin' and coolin' of their molds to help with the release and use no lead at all. There are also modern sprays of manmade materials that are used as a mold release too.

If ya have a modern brass fittin' and yer worried about lead all ya gotta do is the soak that Hookline suggested. That will take care of the surface lead.

If yer still worried about lead and brass, then by all means use stainless or copper fittin's.

Good response. Here are the problems with it, here is how some folks are dealing with the problems, and if you are worried about it - don't use it. Thanks holymackerel, I didn't know about the lead being used for mold release.

No... not really... just as I said trying to keep the area neat. which as far as I'm aware is what moderators are expected to do.

The thread was neat and on topic befor you posted:

none of that stuff matters really. it is a grey area material and this is the novice distiller's area.
you don't start teaching the ABC's by explaining to the kids about special cases where it's grammatically correct to split infinitives and you don't tell someone brand spanking new to distilling that he ought to consider using anything that isn't copper, stainless or glass in his very first still.

in answer to his very first post.

I have voiced my opinion of your posts in the public forum because 1. If this was my reaction to your posts then there is a good chance others may have the same reaction. and 2. It gives you the opertunity to take ownership and, there by, gain some repore with others.

I apologize for any offense I have caused you or anyone reading this.

[rad14701]

Perhaps this entire topic should be moved into a more proper area if deemed appropriate...

I think before anyone else gets going about brass they should do some research... As I stated in my earlier post, I went and did some checking up and found that very little brass has ever had lead as an ingredient... There are some 40 different compositions of brass, each with its own proportions of ingredients and purpose...

A web search for "what is brass" might help get everyone on the same page... Novice or not, everyone can benefit from knowing rather than speculating...

[Fourway]

Others, including another mod have added information about brass, how to deal with it, what the risks are, and what is happening in the brass industry. That is good information and shouldn't be censored

Mods dont always agree here... we are not in lockstep and we don't have secret meetings where we decide what information to withhold.

Saying "that info isn't novice still building advice" isn't censorship... It's good housekeeping.
Censorship is a serious word, it means denying people access to information. It means denying people's rights.
I haven't done any such thing.

I didn't know about the lead being used for mold release.

Do a search, there are several past mentions in old posts in the forums.

It gives you the opertunity to take ownership and, there by, gain some repore with others.

So now you are condescending to guide me to be a better person? Seriously?

I apologize for any offense I have caused you or anyone reading this.

Apology accepted.
Please if you want to continue this start a post in off topic.

[HookLine]

There is a known way to remove any surface lead from brass fittings.

Yes there is... but is it a new user approved technique that makes brass as safe as houses or is it an advanced tinkerer technique for rendering a questionable material "safer"?
I think it's the latter.

Anybody who can make a still should be able to do a simple soak. De-leading brass is a pretty established and easy technique. Though I certainly agree that stainless and copper are much more preferable, and I plan on switching all my brass fittings for stainless ones. I have always recommended stainless valves instead of brass ones, for a bunch of reasons, including not having to de-lead them.

Others, including another mod have added information about brass, how to deal with it, what the risks are, and what is happening in the brass industry. That is good information and shouldn't be censored

Mods dont always agree here... we are not in lockstep and we don't have secret meetings where we decide what information to withhold.

That's the truth folks.

My view is that in situations like this we should make the best info available that we can, including any disagreements about it, and let the members make their own choices. We are all adults here.

[southpaw]

thanks for all the replys everyone I didnt expect to get this much attention! I bought a lead testing kit and tested the pipe, I tested it in several places and i couldnt find any trace of lead. the pipe is a heavy 2 inch pipe and looks really nice after i cleaned it up. it would make the still look very nice. i also found a stainless steel pool filter enclosure that looks like it could hold 6 gallons. it was in a junk pile behind this pool cleaning place. I told the guy I was going to use it to build a steamer for cooking large amounts of vegtables like corn. he let me have it free.

[Hack]

I told the guy I was going to use it to build a steamer for cooking large amounts of vegtables like corn. he let me have it free.

Steaming large amounts of fermented corn and collecting the condensate.

[Fourway]

thanks for all the replys everyone I didnt expect to get this much attention! I bought a lead testing kit and tested the pipe, I tested it in several places and i couldnt find any trace of lead. the pipe is a heavy 2 inch pipe and looks really nice after i cleaned it up. it would make the still look very nice. i also found a stainless steel pool filter enclosure that looks like it could hold 6 gallons. it was in a junk pile behind this pool cleaning place. I told the guy I was going to use it to build a steamer for cooking large amounts of vegtables like corn. he let me have it free.

I actually grabbed one of those off a scrap heap a few years ago but even after repeated blastings with the pressure washer I couldn't get it to stop stinking of chlorine.

[Husker]

thanks for all the replys everyone I didnt expect to get this much attention! I bought a lead testing kit and tested the pipe, I tested it in several places and i couldnt find any trace of lead. the pipe is a heavy 2 inch pipe and looks really nice after i cleaned it up. it would make the still look very nice. i also found a stainless steel pool filter enclosure that looks like it could hold 6 gallons. it was in a junk pile behind this pool cleaning place. I told the guy I was going to use it to build a steamer for cooking large amounts of vegtables like corn. he let me have it free.

One of the safety recommendations is to do a cleaning run with ethanol to clean out flux and other things after the manufacture of a new still or still head, and NEVER consume the output from this cleaning run. It might be smart for you to do a couple runs, just in case there is any chance of chlorine contamination in this 'found' boiler. Any cheap wine, or simple sugar wash can be used in a clean-out run.

H.

[Ugly]

Hydrogen peroxide is a good neutralizer for chlorine that's bonded to metals.

[theholymackerel]

Hydrogen peroxide is a good neutralizer for chlorine that's bonded to metals.

Thanks for the tip, Ugly. This will come in handy.

I spent years castin' brass, bronze, silver and gold, and I still learn new things all the time about metals. Thanks again.

[Fourway]

Hydrogen peroxide is a good neutralizer for chlorine that's bonded to metals.

I really wish I had known that... I probably could have used the strong stuff for bleaching hair.
I also didn't know that chlorine could bond to stainless but *man* this thing stank fiercely... I try to be extremely careful about whiffing chlorine because I know it can damage your sense of smell, I did most of my scrubbing with my respirator on but the fumes overwhelmed the cartridges very quickly.

Getting near the thing, even in a breeze was instant headache material.

I finally brought it back to the scrap heap

[Ugly]

Well I shouldn'r say "bond" that's a chemical term... "impregnate" is the correct term and can happen with long term exposure.

Ugly
who cleans old pools filters with peroxide in order to sand strain the sap and syrup from his maple syrup operations....

[Master-Peter]

Ok now it's me to throw a shitload of "flaming wisdom" into the discussion.

Where I come from ... a country in Europe ... lead is strictly probibited from being used in water carrying brass elements since over 10 years. If you are living in some uneducated 3rd world country where house water is not meant to drink, or governments are not that anal of health (lets say Africa, Asia or America ) you still have chances to find lead. Check your laws (ask a plumber) and then go for the current stuff or if you are in question ... treat it as advised.

To come back to the discussion if brass is good for the Newbie section ... yes I think it is. For it is available, it can be save (depending where you come from), and it is used ... We should keep in mind, that this is a international forum and most newbies try starting the cheap, easily available way. Materials that are supposed to be unpredictable in some 3rd world countrys can be save (because of legislation) in industrial states. Would you blame somebody asking about the use of bamboo pipes in the novice section, as long as you dont know where he comes from? I've seen the use of bamboo in some backyard distillerys and the hooch was great I cannot blame them for using bamboo, even if I would not suggest the use of a possible somehow treated bamboo in western countrys food chains

Brass can be fine and bamboo can be fine ... depending on the source and legislation ... and hey ... we are tolerant, openminded and international...

This was my brainfart of wisdom

Cheers
Peter

[Hack]

This was my brainfart of wisdom

Now, off with you to change your mental undershorts.

[1fourme]

Ok now it's me to throw a shitload of "flaming wisdom" into the discussion.

Where I come from ... a country in Europe ... lead is strictly probibited from being used in water carrying brass elements since over 10 years. If you are living in some uneducated 3rd world country where house water is not meant to drink, or governments are not that anal of health (lets say Africa, Asia or America ) you still have chances to find lead. Check your laws (ask a plumber) and then go for the current stuff or if you are in question ... treat it as advised.

America... lead the way in reducing the use of lead in water systems....Lead was banned for use in said systems back in 1985-87....a full 12-14 years prior to "governments that are not that anal of health". such as europe...
Has that government of yours ripped out every piece of pipe.. in every single building in your country? I don't think so...

America also banned the use of lead in paints in the 50's or 60's...maybe earlier

While we are on the subject of lead... don't forget about all the lead that was imported to europe between 1941-1945.

*edited by mod to repair broken quote tag*

[Master-Peter]

So if we agree that lead was banned in some countries decades ago, why not opening a sticky, in what countrys NEW brass fittings can be safely used, instead of calling all brass harmful?

[goose eye]

country of origin
you can go to walmarket an buy honey with a usa lables all over it. you aint gonna find one reference to china but that honey is comein from china.


so im tole