sour corn

[squeezins]

well it finally happened. In over 2 years of malitng corn I had my first batch go bad. I had 25lbs comming along nicely until 2 days ago when I was away from home and couldnt stir it for about 20 hours. I guess it was just long enough for the corn on bottom to start to sour. I turned it all over every couple of hours but it was too late.. My house smells horrible!!

[punkin]

Sounds excellent. Ferment it, run it and drink it.











MaltingInTheHouseObviouslyNotMarriedPunkin

[junkyard dawg]

yeah, cook it and get some yeast in there...

course that depends on what you have growing in there...

[squeezins]

I threw it out. I dont think it would have ever cleaned up and it still had 3 or 4 days to go. The weather has been cold here so it was taking a little longer than usual and I couldnt stand the smell any longer.

[Hack]

Try this. I got it from dnderhead. It works great on barley, but I haven't tried it on corn yet. Take a five gallon bucket, drill five 1/8" holes in the bottom. Put ten pounds of corn in. Fill the bucket to the top with water and cover with a towel. The water will drain slowly and the corn will absorb some. I do this in the laundry sink on the back porch. Fill the bucket twice a day and while its full stir things around. Doing this, I get malted barley ready to dry in three to four days. The best part is since the water drains out you don't have to worry about things going sour so much. I've missed a day in the water and stir routine with no ill effects.

[Dnderhead]

Maybe for those that are short on water, use rain water ,whatever, it mite help to boil to kill bacteria, I thank that way it could be used over.
mite help keep grain form molding .and save some water .but I never tried it.

[Usge]

From my experience thus far, you can't soak corn in water for more than a day, even changing the water, without it starting the souring/fermenting process on you. And leaving it wet, it's gonna sour in 2 to 3 days. That's how you make sour corn starter in the first place (ie., fill corn over top with water and by day 2 or 3 you got bubbles, foam on the top and it smells sour). In my experience, even changing the water 2x or more a day doesn't really stop this process from happening.

First time, I tried one 24 hour soak, then put it under a wet towel. It sprouted. But, by the 3rd or 4th day started to turn. 2nd time, I soaked it longer. Same thing. 3rd time, I soaked, then just rinsed and aired it 2x a day. It sprouted more, but went sour after day 3 and by day 4 my wife threw it out. This last time, I used 5lbs to make it more manageable, and did daily soak, air, rinse—it was suggested to do this for 3 days. It's starting on day 3 and beginning to bubble/foam and sour right on cue, but no sprouts. It smells like sour milk. The corn won't sprout unless it gets soaked enough though. And soaking too long will begin the process of souring. Unless you can complete your germination process within 3 days, you are going to have stank-ass corn.

I'm getting quite good at making sour corn starter But, I haven't had much luck malting corn. I'm thinking maybe buying a large grain bag, and putting it in the tub with running water over it. I know from old timers...they used to malt their corn in the creek. That's about the only way I can think to simulate it.

[lawdog]

ive had good luck with 20 lbs in a burlap bag. i leave it sit in the shade and spray it with a hose, then flip it over, a couple times a day. i tried starting it in sand a couple times. 20 lbs mixed in a wheelbarrow full of wet sand mixed up. 4 or 5 days later, i washed the sand thru a screen. messy, but it worked alright.

did the old timers work all the roots/sprouts off, or did they just leave em? is there really a difference?

[Usge]

Don't know lawdog. Never got that far. I believe there were other threads on it, and posts scattered around, that suggested that the bigger difference in flavor was whether it was used wet/green or dried. I believe it was said that the green malt was "spicier". Or, that it was grassy tasting. Just a different taste than the dried. Not bad or good, just depends on what you like. I believe the enzyme potential of the fresh green malt would be slightly higher as well, but it doesn't last as long. That's what I recall anyway.

I guess in the end learning to malt corn is like anything else....just have to have the experience to know how wet is too wet, or how dry is too dry, or how long is too long. Its just a matter of all the little nuances that make it work out right. I can tell you for sure from experience, if you pour water over corn and leave it for a few days...EVEN if you change the water regularly, it's going to go sour on you and start foaming after about 2-3 days. That, I've tested thoroughly.

[Dnderhead]

I thank most of the problem with malting is the climate. to high of temperature and the grain is apt to mold etc.
that is why you read that some "old timers" barred grain in the ground or keep it in the branch/creek. others used more open
methods . fresh malt is "spicier" than dried/aged (so is unmalted), malt that you buy is aged .and never let light touch it .that will give
give the "grassy" taste.(even when drying in the sun ,keep covered)light starts the clorphil proses.

[lawdog]

makes sense. i suppose its much more like gardening than any part of distilling. in the garden, if it stays soaked and the seed gets no air, they will rot in the ground. they need to be in warm enuf soil to keep from rotting/damping off. if they are too deep, they cant get to the light, and they are yellow/white since the chlorophyll hast started to work. so we need to reproduce a warm, well drained, deep garden bed. i have a pilot light stove, and my next batch will be started in there in a burlap bag that gets wetted down a couple times a day. maybe just dunked in water, then put back in with a tray below it to keep the runoff.

[squeezins]

Ive never had a problem malting corn until this time. Soak it , drain it , soak it , drain it and spread it out evenly on a table about 1 inch deep and cover it . I use several wool blankets so it will stay in the dark but can breathe . Stir it every 4 or 5 hours and recover. Usually have sprouts in 2 or 3 days. 5 to 7 days and they are done. I think that not being able to stir it for such a long time caused the corn on the bottom to stay more damp thus causing the spoilage. It usually goes from a very sweet to a little off smelling around the 5th day but if you have ever smelled very sour corn you know what my whole house smelled like. Now that it is warmer I have moved my malting table back outside. On a sweeter note... 1 more month and the blueberries will be ripe.. time for some brandy!!!

[Usge]

Yep...it does stank for sure.

[Hillbilly Rebel]

I put a couple of gallons of corn in a pillow case, wet it thoroughly with warm tap water, then place it in a plastic storage box. I let the water drain off for 15 to 30 minutes then pour the water out. I then put the pillow case with the damp corn back in the box with the lid attached and put the whole thing in my garage. Once a day I open the box, pull out the pillow case and check it to see if it is still moist. If not, I will sprinkle enough water on it to get all the corn damp. Then I shift it back and forth in the pillow case to air and stir the corn inside. I then put it back in the box upside down from the way it was the day before and shut it back up. Usually in three days I have sprouts. I take it out and start drying it on the fifth day when the sprouts are about one and a half inch long. Oh yeah, my first time it soured on me (I didn't drain the excess water out the first time), but grew sprouts anyway. I dried it, used it in the mash and distilled it. The final product was just fine.

[Usge]

It's been 5 days...not one sprout and it's stinkin real good. I think it's pretty much done for trying to make malt from it. Got the corn as bird food. (shelled, whole-kernel, mixed white and yellow corn). Last stuff I had (organic corn) did sprout...even though it stank too from too much watering. I've got a 24inch x 24 grain bag coming. I'm gonna take a small amount of the corn that's left and try doing what you said. But, I think I may need to wait till I get some more organic corn. I dont' think this batch of corn is gonna sprout for anything.

[rad14701]

Usge, I think some companies process corn intended for birds just enough so it won't sprout in the feeder or on the ground... Not sure if they dry it down or just heat it enough to make it not viable... Might be part of your problem...

[Usge]

Sounds about right rad. It sure stinks the same though

[squeezins]

I have used plain old yellow corn from the feedstore before and it worked just fine. Just soak it in hot water for half hour or so and drain. Do it again 12 hours later and spread it out and cover it . Sprouts should be comming through in 3 days or so. Just dont forget to turn it over every couple of hours.!!!!!!!

[blind drunk]

This might be dumb and obvious but it sounds like corn has an affinity to the souring bacteria. All grains do but from what's been said, corn is the worse. Would it help to boil it first to make sure the that surface bacteria is dead and then start the malting with fresh water? Curious. I just started some wheat malting for fun and this thought came up. BD.

[muckanic]

I guess in the end learning to malt corn is like anything else....just have to have the experience to know how wet is too wet, or how dry is too dry, or how long is too long. Its just a matter of all the little nuances that make it work out right. I can tell you for sure from experience, if you pour water over corn and leave it for a few days...EVEN if you change the water regularly, it's going to go sour on you and start foaming after about 2-3 days. That, I've tested thoroughly.

Treatment with metabisulphite would most likely knock out the lactic bacteria that live on the surface of the corn. One problem is, met chews up oxygen. So it would be a choice between a quick initial treatment of the dry kernels (say 1/2 hr or so), or a slightly longer soak on day 2+. Peroxide would be another possibility without the antioxidant issues.

PS: brewers don't like the roots because they impart a herbaceous taste. Whether this carries over in the distillate, I don't know.

[squeezins]

I dont know if boiling it would kill the seed. Ive never tried it myself. As long as you keep it turned over every few hours or so it will be fine. I used to sour corn in buckets for catfish bait.. Leave it in a bucket of water for about a week and its ready to go and the fish come a runnin but the smell is horrible.

[Usge]

Perioxide eh? You mean plain old Hydrogen-Peroxide? That would be easy enough. Dilute it with water? And thanks for all the suggestions (from everybody).

I think I've just been oversaturating the corn with water all the way around—ie too much steeping up front, and keeping it too wet going foward. I stopped watering the corn, and let it drain out good until it just feels damp, it has now begun to sprout. It smells pretty bad at first. But once I turn it, flip it around some, it doesn't smell quite as bad. So, I'm hoping to salvage some of this. I'm mostly glad that this source for corn turns out to be ok, even if slow to germinate (it was cheap and convenient for me). I think the organic stuff I had sprouted more readily, but I still had the same problem with lactic souring becuase I was keeping it too wet (both soaking too long upfront, and keeping it too wet for germination). I also think I was not turning it enough as well, from the sounds of it. Live and learn

[lawdog]

clean dry corn should cost you about 4 dollars a bushel. (56 lbs but some places sell it 50lb/bag)

my corn always smells a little bad when its ready, but i put it in a pot with water to cover it, and lightly boil it for about 3 hours, adding water as it needs it. after about 10 minutes, the starches start to convert and the skunky smell goes away and it smalls more like sweet corn cookin. i doubt im doing the correct way, but it works for me so i just keep doing it.

[squeezins]

lawdog I dont think there is a right way and a wrong way... just a different way. There can be countless was to solve a problem,as long as you get where you want to go...misson accomplished..