Who wants to see my wonderful coil...

[ZAXBYC]

Ok so here is my first ever coiling attempt / mess



I know so that is bad , so I try again....



hmmm better but the damn thing kept kinking... this technique worked well, through the pipe still deformed!
So filling wilt salth was awesome for making it.... those that do it without salt, congrats, becuase its sooo difficult! Hats off to you guys!

Word of warning keep salt away from other stuff.... kinda made my fathers workshop rusty



Ok so got the hang of that....lets fill a lot with salt and wind!



Woohoo it worked..... but this was an absolute f#'!er to get off!...inner coil time...



Not bad, but took the brute force of 2 people to get that to coil well!


So in the end what did I end up with......

1 Condenser that I hope can knock down 3.2kw

Not quite as neat as some i've seen but should do the job!
PS it's now finished but dont have a photo of it yet .... in fact my still is almost complete will take photos tomorrow



Me

[rad14701]

Yes, condenser coil winding is a learning experience... Thanks for sharing your learning curve as I'm sure it will be reassurance to others... I, for one, am looking forward to seeing the finished results... Good luck...

[Godstilla]

Hey that looks pretty damn good. I keep my first coil for laughs!

[decoy]

hey you tried it screwd up but in the end you ended up with a very nice coil, i would put it up with the top ten coils..
you should be proud of your achivemnet..

cheers..

[jdonly1]

Looks pretty good to me mate

[eternalfrost]

lookin good!

one thing though, by the looks of pic 2 and 3 it seems like you were getting fair ammount of flattening out going on. were you using salt on those tries?

im asking because the first coil i made turned out like that and it was because i didnt have it 100% filled so it kept it from collapsing completely but still got deformed

on my newest coil i literally went to a little bridge across a creek next door to my house and hung all 25 feet of my copper off the side and filled it up with the salt slowly with LOTS of tapping (tapping is important! ) and tape off the end before starting to roll it.

it turned out PERFECTLY . the tube is 100% of its original width over the entire piece. zero flattening or kinking, even a slight bit

kind of over kill i know but it taught me that you really gotta work to get that salt truly in without any bubble gaps. especially on the tiny 1/4 OD tubing

[The Tippler]

Could one of you experienced coil winders advise ,do you use heat while winding onto the former?. Is the salt filler sufficient to hold the profile? Thanks....................Tippler.

[eternalfrost]

Could one of you experienced coil winders advise ,do you use heat while winding onto the former?. Is the salt filler sufficient to hold the profile? Thanks....................Tippler.

salt only, no heat. make sure it is TOTALLY filled as the pipe will collapse around any little air pockets left

[The Tippler]

May I pose another Q. My inline under construction comprises 1M 2" copper,reducer from 2" to 4". So I have 12" of 4" sitting on the column. Suggestions as to how to fill this with condenser coil............Cheers Tippler.

[ZAXBYC]

Thanks for your comments guys, getting excited and proud of my build! Cheers for your support and advice

Everything is ready to go now... just to attach hoses, fit and seal bits together and start the cleaning and testing runs!

Btw for anyone looking at this, I didnt do it in a weekend it's taken a few weekends to get to the final coil!

by eternalfrost on Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:15 am
lookin good!

one thing though, by the looks of pic 2 and 3 it seems like you were getting fair ammount of flattening out going on. were you using salt on those tries?

2 no I didn't, want to prove myself... and learnt my lesson and then got one of those knowing looks from the missus....told her to bug off back inside!

3, kind of....think the salt caked so didnt settle very well. the main coil it was properly packed in, took about a hour to pack a few metres properly....through it still flattened slightly...as long as the ends don't flatten its not too much of an issue anyway

Note for any newbies keep your copper sealed and in a dry environment until you want to use it another wise you going to have LOTS of fun honest

[eternalfrost]

one thing i forgot to add..

it really helps if you bake your copper in the oven for like 20 min at 200-300 or so to make sure its nice and dry inside before trying to fill it with salt. it only take a couple grains to stick inside that tiny tube to really mess everything up

[jdonly1]

one thing i forgot to add..

it really helps if you bake your copper in the oven for like 20 min at 200-300 or so to make sure its nice and dry inside before trying to fill it with salt. it only take a couple grains to stick inside that tiny tube to really mess everything up

Woild a blow torch do the trick

[jdonly1]

one thing i forgot to add..

it really helps if you bake your copper in the oven for like 20 min at 200-300 or so to make sure its nice and dry inside before trying to fill it with salt. it only take a couple grains to stick inside that tiny tube to really mess everything up

Would a blow torch do the trick

[dixiedrifter]

Probably wouldn't hurt... in fact it would probably melt the salt.

[eternalfrost]

Probably wouldn't hurt... in fact it would probably melt the salt.

the whole point is that you dry it out in the oven (or blowtorch as you say i suppose...) BEFORE you add salt so it dosent clump or clog and create air pockets

[jdonly1]

Probably wouldn't hurt... in fact it would probably melt the salt.

the whole point is that you dry it out in the oven (or blowtorch as you say i suppose...) BEFORE you add salt so it dosent clump or clog and create air pockets

Yer before the salt I meant

[ZAXBYC]

Hes a photo of it completed and in action!.... kinda got carried away and wanted to try it rather than photo it made!

It knocks down steam after the coloumn, need to test it Just attached to the boiler next!



YAY

[BW Redneck]

The blowtorch would also anneal it somewhat and make it easier to wind if you got it hot enough.

[ZAXBYC]

Here's the finished article!

Can knock down 3.2kW of steam with just a tickle of cooling water.... comes out a little warm tho

[new_moonshiner]

wont have any problems knocking down alch. vapors then....nice job btw

[jimmy_janga]

I've done sand bending with SS tubing that is of smaller diameter than the copper being wrapped here. Use dry sand (beadblast media, beach sand or even sandbox sand (from Home Depot or similar)) and ensure it's completely dry. Crimp the end of the tube and pack the column full of sand and pound it in tight, put a piece of paper in the end and pound it in tight (to prevent any loose sand from falling out). Then proceed to roll, if it's too difficult then the aid of a blowtorch on the outside of the tubing will make things go by easier. I'm assuming it's far easier to wrap copper than it is to wrap stainless steel tubing.

Just a suggestion.

[cemik1]

I can recomend this tube:

No winding problems. Even with SS, like above, it is possible without any tools and salt or sand. Effective coil surface is also increased. SS DN12 x 2.5m is enough for 4kW.

[HookLine]

Ooh, now that is nice.

[Aces High]

Yea, i wonder if we can get some of that stuff in australia

[HookLine]

Though there is a major trade-off with stainless having a much higher thermal resistance than copper, approx. 15-25 times higher, depending on the grade of stainless. My 7" copper coil condenser, using smooth 1/4" tube, easily knocks down 2400 w of water vapour, with plenty of room to spare, which in principle equals about 6350 w of ethanol vapour.

[Aces High]

Good point... i knew it couldn't be that easy

[HookLine]

No such thing as a free lunch.

Still nice condenser porn though.

[snuffy]

The corrugated stainless is used for gas line. I haven't found a source for it by the foot, but 1/2" OD x 48" connector lines are standard for gas appliances. They run $55.00 US list. There are 3/8" OD ones, but they are 36" max length. The nice thing about corrugated is that the bending radius is a tube diameter -- so you could bend a 1/2" tube around a 1" mandrel and get a 2" OD coil (if everything goes perfect.)

The stainless is much stronger than copper, so it's thinner. I don't know what the wall thickness is on the gas connectors, but the larger stainless is .005" thick. In 6", it's strong enough to stand on without flattening. That thin, conductivity becomes much less of an issue than it might appear.

There is a type of flex gas line that is stainless coated with a plastic so it can be pulled inside walls. It's called CSST (corrugated stainless steel tubing. It comes as small as 3/8 OD in 50 foot lengths. Retails for $4.10/ft in 3/8. The major brand is Gastite. So there must be a source for it without the coating, but I can't find one so far. Our local distributor does stock the connectors in the 1/2 x 48 size at the price noted above.

The big issue in condensers is keeping the random-walk distance of the vapor as short as possible. Since gas is a good insulator, channels can provide "heat highways" for vapor to get through without being cooled. This is the major inefficiency in coiled condensers and can be corrected by filling the center of the coil with a coldfinger or mesh. Loose mesh suffices, because it works by deflecting the vapor and causing turbulence, not by conduction.

[cemik1]

5m of DN12 or DN8 (1/2 or 3/8) costs about 40USD. I know it is not copper but as I said 2.5m is enough for 4kW condenser. Corrugated stainless is very flexible and sometimes core is required: