Hybrid Pot Still

[PaulN]

I would have to guess that this has been covered before, but I didn't see anything, so I'll risk the embarrassment and ask anyway:

I was running my little a gallon sized pressure cooker pot still last night, and enjoying the outpot, when it occured to me that I should be able to improve on it by simply attaching a column where the worm is now, add some packing, and get a higher proof output. I'm assuming this based on what I've read about columns, packing, reflux, etc. and I may have missed seomthing impoprtant, but, this is what I'm thinking:

Attached directly to the vent tube of my pressure cooker is a 3/4 inch column that's, let's say, 24 inches tall. I pack the column with copper scrubbers, and cap the column with a 3/4 inch fitting to which I have attached my worm. Insulate the column and fire away. Although initial start up will be longer, I think it should still work just fine. Simple like a pot still, but the scrubbers and column should give enough room for some condensation and re-evaporation to occur, resulting in a product that is higher proof that what one would get from a simple pot still. I THINK it would work, but I dunno, so I'm asking here. I could probably get very similar results with a doubler, but this just seems like an interesting way to skin the same cat in a slightly different way.

Does this idea have any merit, or am I just wasting my time? Am I trying to get some of the benefits of a reflux still without building the valving, condensor coils, etc.? You bet I am. Will it work as well as a reflux still? Of course it won't, but I would bet that it would perform better than a simple pot still.

Has anyone else tried this little setup, or will I be the guinea pig?

[Dnderhead]

yes some have built "short" column stills or two piece so they can use both ways but I do not thank 3/4 "column going to do it
it will be pron to flooding. you will need at least 1.5

[rad14701]

Just my opinion but with only a gallon of wash and that small of a column diameter, you'd be wasting your time... I have a 2 gallon boiler with a 1.25" X 20" column with stainless steel scrubbers and the take off is slow regardless of whether running reflux or wide open... Marbles work better but wouldn't really be an option with 3/4"... In fact, I rarely use the column and just run as a stripper, instead... Save your money, time, and effort for a bigger unit...

[WILDBILL2873]

The other day i took my 12" of copper mesh out of my 2"x3' reflux column (which has worked far better than ceramic rings for me) expecting to get a low wine. not the case, i ended up with 100 proof. usualy i get 140 +/-. so to your question i say unless you find a way to slightly cool your 3/4' column a bit before it reaches the worm as well as a packing you will not get the reflux you are looking for. this must be the oposite problem i have. i'm trying to keep more flavor than hooch. i hope this helps.

[PaulN]

Rad and Wildbill,

Thanks for the replies. I was sure someone had tried a similar approach, whether intentional or not. The idea of running such a small column is a function of availablility (I can get the parts at any hardware store) and balancing power as I run my still at very low power input. I really liked the unintended result of Wildbill getting 100 proof out of a first pass.

I know the tried and true method is to run a thumper/doubler, so in the interest production I should just pump my output through that big pickle jar that I saved.

Thanks again for the input.

[Hack]

My vote is that it's worth a try. The concept is sound. It's just unsure how it will work on a small scale. It won't cost you much to try.

[GingerBreadMan]

Since you are not going to have a condenser at the top, I would not insulate the column. The exposed copper pipe would cool down the vapors providing condensation. Most of the time I run my hybrid still without turning on the condenser at the top.

The trick is to turn down the heat so the vapors don't just rush out of the still. Also, use a wider column if you can. That will slow down the vapor speed as it goes up the column

[trthskr4]

Maybe you could spiral wrap some 1/4" copper tubin and solder it to the outside of the column, doesn't have to be tightly wrapped. As a matter of fact I'd leave an inch or so space between wraps and have your cooling water go through your condenser if you have a liebeg then around the column and exit at the bottom of the column. That should give you a little reflux from a cooler column wall. It's just gonna stick to the column anyway. Still gonna be slow, but patience is a virtue in this craft.

[PaulN]

I think this will work, only because I run my very small still at very low power, so the risk of flooding should be minimal, and I should get some reflux. The pot itself is insulated with R-20 fiberglass batting, including the lid. I've found this really helps the efficiency, just like it should. In fact, without the insulation I don't think I would get any output at all. My still is equal parts curiousity (making my own spirits) and efficiency (getting output while minimizing wasted energy). Once the vapor escapes the still via the vent tube it would go into the column, which would not be insulated. A bit of packing would give the condensate a place to hang out while things stabilize. The ultimate goal is to develop a still that is relatively safe (low power, and no leaks) and doesn't need to be baysat while it does it's thing. With the bugs worked out and parameters set I could charge the still, set the timer, and walk away while it works.

A thumper is easier, but not as interesting as an unproved (at least to me) concept like this. I think I'll give it a whirl.

[Dnderhead]

" set the timer, and walk away while it works."
not a good idea. always attend.

[HookLine]

" set the timer, and walk away while it works."
not a good idea. always attend.

+1

[PaulN]

I KNEW I was going to get popped for that comment. Yes, I know it's pretty sutpid to not attend a still while it's running. I mean, it's only producing rocket fuel, right? What could possibly go wrong, I checked everything twice before plugging it in...KABOOM!

To take this in a slightly different direction from the original thread, I would like to know if anyone has toyed with, or actually gone with a 'remote' still. As fr myself, I use electric power to heat my boiler, the power is very low (although it could still probably start a fire under the right conditions), and I THINK I've addressed the potential issues, but you never know.

So, honestly, who has tried this, and what happened?

[myles]

I tried this a few times with different designs in 1" and 3/4" pipe. Even tried using T junctions to feed 2 columns into 1. Was running a 1 gallon pot at the time. Went up to a 36" long column but could not get it to work right. I even added in a liebig condenser at the top of the column to condense everything back to provide reflux.

What I found was that I could not get an effective temperature gradient in such a short column. And when I turned the heat way down I never ran out of heads. The heads contaminated the entire run because of the flowrate problem and I was getting no effective sepparation.

I did manage to use the 1 gallon pot by running it faster and doing a tripple distilation to get a not very good neutral, but it was not good. OK with carbon filtering but certainly not what I wanted. Part of the problem I reckon is the limitation imposed by such a small boiler.

I have kept the boiler to experiment with by putting on a big column and continually feeding in wash slowly as I take product off - BUT have not got it right yet.

[pro65]

I have a 2.5 gallon copper water heater that I added a 26" piece of 3/4 pipe to and steped the takeoff down to 1/4 inch tubing x 20' for a worm. I was running it on the stove as a small pot still with out put around 50%.

I decided to pack the column with SS scrubers and see what would happen. I know I was not getting much reflux but the distilet changed from 50% to around 62% output.

It was very very slow in working. I think some of it was the 1/4" worm maybe I should have made it 3/8