Reflux heads

[quantum]

Rad

what do you think? will it work? The plates aren't drawn correctly in the reflux control. The bottom one comes up about an inch above the opening so it can hold fluid above the inlet as not to let gas in. the reason for running the coolant through the feed tube at the top of condenser is to get the extra cooling of the vapor before it reaches the divert plates at the reflux valve.

[rad14701]

Not a good design, quantum, because you can never establish 100% reflux and you're being overly optimistic that you'll attain adequate reflux as designed...

Please, please, please, take the time to learn the theories...

[snuffy]

quickstart on reflux theory.... (yes there are things left out)

Reflux packed column stills need to get 100% reflux. When the still goes into 100% reflux, it is as if the length of the column becomes huge. This allows the low-boiling stuff to become concentrated at the top of the column. When the column becomes stable in reflux, small amounts of product can be drawn off the top without upsetting the thermal equilibrium. The rate at which this will keep equilibrium determines the production rate. For 95% abv, the holy grail is 2 liters per hour with a 2". Riku recently hit this mark with a fine-tuned automatic Vapor Management still.

If you takeoff 10%, the still is running at 90% reflux, for example. There are four ways to manage reflux and they can be used in combination:
Power Management (PM) - you control the power to the boiler. This is the oldest method and dates back to the discovery of distilling.
Liquid Management (LM) - The Nixon/Stone still introduced this form of LM to the world in their book, The Compleat Distiller. Ian Smiley wrote Making Pure Corn Whiskey, which as step by step instructions and photos of a Nixon/Stone still. The mothership abounds with examples. The most popular design currently is the Bokabob inline head.
Vapor Management (VM) - also pioneered by Mike Nixon and refined by Riku in his book, Designing and Building Automatic Stills. VM is popular with people making neutral spirit, rum, vodka. There is currently some experimentation with whiskey.
Cooling Management (CM) - this design is less used. It's not particularly hard to build, but is harder to tune. Used with Power Management, it works quite well.

All of them do the same thing: divert some product off the top of the column. They do it in different ways. The important thing is all the condensate forms at the top and runs down the entire length of the column.

The stills that have cooling tubes low in the column can't match the output rates of putting all the reflux condensation at the top. This is why the stills with cross tubes for cooling inside the column are regarded as obsolete and inefficient designs.

This is a CM still. Just to torment Hook, it doesn't use any coil condensers.



Hook makes really nice coiled condensers.

[quantum]

now i just completely don't get it.

why will my last drawing not work?
What will cause it not to work?
If i close the reflux return valve and set my coolant to only fast enogh to start condensation at the top of the condenser, where is the rest of the vapor going?


if i take out the reflux drain back valve, can i at least drink what comes out?

[HookLine]

This is a CM still. Just to torment Hook, it doesn't use any coil condensers.

Blasphemer!

Hook makes really nice coiled condensers.

Ah, little grasshopper, you have received the light of wisdom and truth into your soul. You shall go far.

Selah

[Aces High]

Look Quantum, Just build it, it'll do something, it probably wont be efficient or get high ABV, but it'll do something.

You seem like the kind of person that needs to work things out hands on. Distilling and the building of stills is addictive, so this wont be the last one you build I gaurantee that.

[quantum]

thanks guys.

After all this I think I'm going to build a simple pot still with a thumper.

[HookLine]

I would suggest you just start with a simple pot still, and get to know that.

[quantum]

The more reading i do the more the pot still fits what i want to do.

I remember drinking a white shine that an old black man had at an old back country bar. This stuff had the most unique flavor, but that is all i remember.

I do know he said it was corn liquor.

[rad14701]

Build a simple pot still, based on designs here in the forums, then think about adding a thumper to it once you've got some experience under your belt... A stock pot or beer keg with a liebig condenser is the easiest route to take... A worm in a bucket will also do the job...

[quantum]

All right guys, Here is my latest contraption.
Other than the cap for the top ( plumbing store had to order) she is done other than seaming it up and putting my water out in my condenser.
Before I solder it up, I wanted to see what you guys think. (any changes?)

2" column 11" tall
2" condenser about 22" long
1-1/4 (lyne arm?) with just enough tilt so not to run back in the column before it clears a 1/2" reducer at the end of the condenser.

[quantum]

I'm also going to go over to pot stills and see what some of those guy think.
I want it to be "THE GOOD STUFF" or I'm not going to build it.

[rad14701]

We're the same guys in all the forums...

You don't need a large a water jacket for the liebig as it just adds weight... Liebig design is the same regardless of still type...

[quantum]

My reasoning for using that long of an arm is so my water consumption could be minimal. I will make a little stand to fit my table.
I also tried to use materials I had with minimal cutting, All else fails I can cut it up and use it for something else later.
My thinking also was with the long condenser that i could use it for a larger still later.
Whats your opinion?

[Ayay]

Here is a re-design with the same materials that i have on hand.
Give me your opinion.

Your design looks like an efficient pot column with some reflux ability. It must be classed as a pot column because it will not produce 95%ABV in a single run. What is missing is the ability to get 100% reflux. In your design if the liquid reflux valve is wide open to get the max reflux, vapors will continue to flow past the slant plates and be condensed further down and come out as product. You may be able to turn down the heat so that all vapors are condensed before they reach the slant plates, then it will get 100% reflux (and won't utilizing all that extra condenser below the plates). Then it becomes heat management which is possible but there are far better ways to manage the reflux.

If you are stillin for flavor then your design will do that very well I'm sure. If you are expecting pure vodka then you may be struggling to make it deliver.

[Hawke]

I see your potstill is using a union to connect the 'lyne arm' liebig condenser. (Good)
If you add a 'turbulator', it should work fine. To make the turbulator, split a short piece of 1" copper pipe and flatten. Cut a strip 1.5"x6" and twist at least 180 degrees, press this twisted ribbon into the upper end of the condenser. This will break up any laminar flow long enough to condence your vapor.

What is the 3rd tube I see coming out of the bottom of your condencer?

[quantum]

What is the 3rd tube I see coming out of the bottom of your condencer?

the tubes you are seeing are just there for for it ti sit on and hold in place for me to take a picture. they are not part of it.

[quantum]

I see your potstill is using a union to connect the 'lyne arm' liebig condenser. (Good)

I am going to put a 90 on the condenser where the union is then i can control the angel of the condenser. is this practical?

[quantum]

If you add a 'turbulator', it should work fine. To make the turbulator, split a short piece of 1" copper pipe and flatten. Cut a strip 1.5"x6" and twist at least 180 degrees, press this twisted ribbon into the upper end of the condenser. This will break up any laminar flow long enough to condence your vapor.

I came up with this for a turbulator.
I cant do anything simple.
is this kind of on the same as what you are talking about.
5/8 OD tube with 3/16 copper ground wire wrapped around it. It all slips in the 1-1/4" tube so that gas is forced to flow around it. With it like this it leaves 1/4" gap between the wire and 1-1/4 ID tube at the top with it just laying in it. I am assuming this is fine.
I figured I would pop a couple of caps on it and tack weld the wire to it so that its all one piece, and can be removed and cleaned.
would i need to drill a couple op small holes in the pipe for air expansion or will it be ok sealed

[Hack]

I just read this thread for the first time.

I'm glad you've switched to a pot still design, because if good corn whiskey is what you're after, that's the tool for the job.

If you cap both ends of that 5/8" for your turbulator you are creating a potential explosion. The air trapped inside will expand with the heat of the incoming vapor causing pressure. Also this will reduce the collection rate because you have restricted the flow area.

[quantum]

I just read this thread for the first time.

I'm glad you've switched to a pot still design, because if good corn whiskey is what you're after, that's the tool for the job.


If you cap both ends of that 5/8" for your turbulator you are creating a potential explosion. The air trapped inside will expand with the heat of the incoming
vapor causing pressure.

I was thinking this, thanks for the verification.


I'm going to run the t-air inside like you see it but strait through from the bottom of the tee, and all the way out the other end. I'm going to run it through a threaded boss at the bottom of the tee, and run water through the center of the 1/2" ID pipe (maybe). it will be removable and i don't have to run water through it . it can just be open. Ive got the drain at the end worked out so fluid doesn't drain down the water line, I will just have to show you that.

I'm thinking with the union on the condenser, it can be turned strait up, and let fluid drain back down into the bottom of the tee, or back into a column extension that can be added later. or down as a pot still.

I also put a 3/8 spiral in the water jacket .

Also this will reduce the collection rate because you have restricted the flow area.

Rough numbers using 3.14

1.25" ID tube = 1.2 sq in. at opening

5/8 OD pipe = .30664 sq in.
3/16" wire = .0754 sq in.

opening would be .82 at opening. will this all work

[Hawke]

If the math is right in the above post, you would have no problems.
That is approximately a 7/8" opening. I can strip a 30 litre wash in 2.5 hours, from lighting to dousing the fire, with a 3/4" opening.
Cap the upper end and leave the bottom open on your overkill turbulator.

[quantum]

OK, i built this just after my last post. I was cleaning up the shed and found it in a box, cleaned it up a bit, and posted pics. I added a tabulator. its a 1/2" tube with a 1/4 inch wire wrapped around it, and its ground down to fit the 3/4" pipe.