Modular Combination Still

Simple pot still distillation and construction with or without a thumper.

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myles
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Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

I have been putting together a combination still based on my existing double boiler. The boiler takes a 22 litre wash so everything I have built is oversized, but this is a trial and I want to be able to transfer to a bigger boiler later. The starting point for every section is a peice of 2" tube, that connects with a slip coupling to the modified water seal on my boiler. This has a decent sized hole for getting your arm in for cleaning that tapers down to a 2" section.

:shock: This will raise a few shrieks but the bottom of the water channel includes a silicone gasket. :shock: However, this is covered in water, and should never come into contact with product. The ONLY reason for this is to enable enough pressure to build up to run a thumper. This is a TEMPORARY MEASURE. The final design will use a 4" or 5" triclover or flanged connector to the pot as a semi permanent connector, for attaching a taper to a 2" tri clover that will be the normal disconnection point.

The Starting Point

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This is the water seal section to the boiler. Cone shaped inner section to divert condensate away from the water seal. Mates up to 2" tube. It is a bit ugly but I was playing around with construction techniques. I have since found that you can buy copper jam funnels that are an excelent alternative if you don't want to make one. It sits on top of this inner pot.
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That in turn sits inside this outer boiler.
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This is how it is attached to the boiler. The three stainless turnbuckles were intended to hold down what ever is attached, to maintain a good seal and also to enable enough pressure to built up to run the thumper without blowing out the water seal. I don't think that will be a problem as the rig is quite heavy, BUT they have turned out to be a really easy way to get the offset pipework stabilised. REALLY EASY. I would recomend it to anyone using an off centred design that tends to lean to one side.
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I am actually planning to use a thumper but the same tapered arm and condenser shown below could be connected directly to the boiler. I have some extra bits on order to make up an extra section of tube that will let me couple the tapered lynn directly to the boiler without the extra fiddly bits. For now I am using slip couplings, but once finalised these will be replaced with tri clamps or possibly bolted flanges.

Thumper Lynn arm and what will be the thumper.
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Lynn arm and condenser to put on the thumper.
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This Liebig condenser is this design. I have not put on the external coil yet, to provide the third cold surface, as it may not be needed. The blanked off coolant tubes where it would be connected are installed just in case.
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It is essentialy a Liebig inside a shell design, with a vapour path down the centre of the inner Liebig and also around the outside to make most efficient use of all the cold surfaces. Using an outer T one size up with reducing couplings made the assembly a bit easier. It is a fiddle though.
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My thumper will be too small for 2" in and out (that was the plan), so the input side will be reduced to 1.4"
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The combination still concept.

Combine a 2" column to be used for heads and tail separation at low boiler power, over a T junction that feeds a thumper for the hearts phase. 2 separate condensers, one for feints and one for product.

This was the basic plan:
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The idea was to split off the heads and tails at low power through the column then run the hearts through the thumper.

The Reflux Head.
I know I over engineered it. :lol: In the future it may end up on a 3" column, so I built it to suit.
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Two valves in the design. I want to be able to run in either VM or CM mode. REMEMBER this is just an add on to a pot still and not at this time a reflux still in the true sense.

OK I overdid it with the 12" double coil, but if it ever ends up on a proper column it should cope OK with virtually any boiler input I will be using. I am intending to split off the heads, either through the top port in CM mode or through the larger lower port in VM mode. I won't know which works best untill I try it. Either way I will then shut both valves and build up enough pressure to run the thumper section.
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Thats the oversized head with a slip coupling (indicated) to the column. There are two 1/2" temperature probe ports. One above and one below the reflux condenser. I am stilll waiting for the USB temp probes to come from Hong Kong!! There is a slip coupling at the point indicated. I managed to fit in 42" of stainless steel scourers as packing. Less than optimum for a reflux still but should be fine for heads separation.

Stripping Head

I also built a dedicated section of column to work with my big Liebig for stripping runs
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The big Liebig has been posted before and was inspired by RumBulls post. It has one vapour path between two cooled surfaces, The outer cold surface is cooled by a coil instead of an outer jacket but that is a minor variation. There is a 90 degree bend in the vapour path, which with the compression coupling alows the condenser angle to be adjusted. It also lets me fold it up for storage, which is usefull.

Feints condenser

A basic Liebig. It should cope with the intended application of heads and tails separation at low boiler powers. If needs be there is an additional bigger condenser that can fit in between this one and the head. I am planning to electroplate the inside of the brass couplings with copper to get over the possible lead-in-brass issues.
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Everything is modular and based on slip couplings. I don't know which setup will be used in the end - it all depends how things work out.
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I am going to build the additional section of tube that will allow me to connect the tapered lynn arm and condenser directly to the boiler for a normal pot still. Am just waiting for delivery of a few bends. If the combined column/pot design turns out to be no practical advantage I will take the column off the thumper T junction and rebuild it to be used on its own on the boiler. An end cap fitted to blank off the T junction will then give me two sets pipework. One for a thumper and one for no thumper both to use the same tapered lynn arm and condenser and a separate 2" column all of which will run on the same boiler. Plus the stripping rig off course. All starting with 2" tube that can be moved to a bigger boiler later.
Just need to finish off the thumper and start on the cleaning runs :D :D
EDIT: Sorry. Is that better?
Last edited by myles on Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hawke
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by Hawke »

Please go back in and put each picture link on it's own line. The post is almost impossible to read as is.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by LWTCS »

Welp,
You got yourself some plumbing there Sir!

Your joints look very nice.
Your work space looks dern good too. I just love all them glass jugs you got.

Rumbull's triple wall condenser was part of my inspiration as well. Thanks Rumbull (and Punkin).
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by Slow & Steady »

That is one hell of a system. Very nice work... Man, what we go through just to have a nip when we get home from work. :wink:
"If it worthwhile then it is worth a little extra time and effort... all impatiens ever got me was burned fingers and charred eyebrows"
myles
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

I thought I had better retain the option of a plain, simple, old fashioned pot still. So here you are. :lol: :lol:
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Even if the other options turn out to be a waste of time I should still be able to do the odd run on this. :D :D It is still modular, breaks down into the boiler and two sections for storage. What do you think?
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by HookLine »

Love the parrot's beak. Very original. (Unlike this comment. :wink: )
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myles
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

HookLine wrote:Love the parrot's beak. Very original. (Unlike this comment. :wink: )
Thanks. I threw it together out of spare bits in a hurry, but it works. Will make a nicer one later. The coil works as you can bend and tweak it to get it level.
:)
EDIT: There is actually an inner sleve inside there, that sits about 2mm lower than the top of the cut down T junction. It overflows over the lip and down inside the T to the outlet branch. Makes it easier to read.
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by Husker »

Hawke wrote:Please go back in and put each picture link on it's own line. The post is almost impossible to read as is.
Fixed.
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Hawke
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by Hawke »

Thanks Husker, much easier on my poor ol' eyes. :shock:
Great looking pieces there. Especially love that tapered arm.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
myles
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

Made a mistake on the taper. I cut a wedge out of the tube, but put one edge down the centre line. It means the welsh seam curves around the tube where it should have been down the centre line. Will know better next time. Also used hard not soft solder. :D Could have put it directly on the boiler but wanted to use the same suspension points to take the weight.
Have increased the cup size on the parrot to 1.4"
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myles
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

Got the thumper built, based on a 15 litre stock pot. Had a bit of a problem with the rivet holes but managed to sort that out. Used what seems to be a standard plan. Cut down a bowl to use the rim as a base for another bowl to sit on.
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Used the base of the bowl I cut up to make a diffuser. My holes were a bit uneven so I made up some rings of multicore wire, one inside and one outside the pot. Flooded them with solder to seal the gaps. Untidy but it worked. Will find a better solution next time.
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The diffuser is drilled with 2mm holes. I insulated the lid as I want it to be hotter at the top to try and prevent overfilling. I think that must be a thermal balance issue. Also built a slide on insulated colar for the top half of the pot in case the ambient conditions call for more insulation.
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This is just a dry run to see if it all fits. I need to rotate one of the 2" bends a few degrees to get it to line up properly.
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Hawke
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by Hawke »

Looking good.
Love building the stills, more than running them, may have to start a new business.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
myles
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

Just a quick update. I have tried no end of different things to modify the 'Alembic type water seal' on mt boiler, so that I could generate enough pressure in the boiler to power the thumper.

Bottom line is they all failed. I have removed the outer channel of the water seal and soldered on a cap instead. This means I have lost the 5" opening and now have a permanent 2" coupling instead.

Thats not a problem. However I had an oversight when I soldered it up, and forgot about the funnel section inside the boiler that was supposed to divert condensate drips away from the water seal. :roll:

This means I couldn't completely empty the boiler through the 2" opening. Its the little things that screw it up isn't it!!! So I have fitted a 3/4" drain in the top of the boiler near the cap, so I can tip out (or pump out) any residue at the end of the run.

It is progressing slowly due to other commitments.
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by schnell »

the head pressure of a thumper was probably much much greater than the water seal.

I like your work space.
myles
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

This is the latest version of the boiler.

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I have changed my boiler too. The element burned out - it was from a standard kettle. I have removed it and fitted a 2 1/4" boss and a 14" 3kW immersion heater element.

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Also changed the wiring from my pinto-controller to include a caravan type plug and socket.

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I have invested in 25 litres of propylene glycol - I was fed up with the clouds of steam. Once the thread sealant is dry tomorow, I will put 15 litres of glycol in the double boiler and fire her up.

Oh and here is the new parrot.

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myles
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

I changed the layout of the reflux head also. Rotated it to horizontal and got rid of the CM port. It is now straight VM.

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There are two reflux centering cones. One just above the thermometer port on the head, and one half way down the column

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Because I have my vent valved and connected to my condenser, I fitted a 3 bar safety bypass valve. This is only because when I want to run the thumper I need to close off all the valves on the column to build up the neccesary pressure for the thumper.

Its not to scale but this is the layout of the vent / safety valve.

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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

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Just fits between the ceiling joists. Reflux column for heads concentration, then shut the valves and run the hearts through the thumper, then switch back to the column to sepparate out the fractions in the tails.
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by LWTCS »

Damn son,
Thats some fancy plumbing you got there!
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
myles
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

Well its an experimental rig to let me try the options. I suspect that I may end up using it as an enhanced pot still. Start with 100% reflux at low boiler power to concentrate the heads. Then run as a basic pot still, probably without the thumper, and then switch back to the column to fraactionate the tails.
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by LWTCS »

When will you run it?
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

Well I ran a cleaning cycle with the stripping head fitted to the boiler. No steam, no smell, no loud noises. 15 litres of propylene glycol in the double boiler, and 22 litres of water/vinegar in the pot.

I bottled out when the double boiler got to 120 degrees centigrade, and backed off my pintoshine controller, from setting 12 to setting 7. It stabilised at about 122 degrees. For a while I did take it up to 135 degrees but thought it was probably going against the principle of the double boiler which is to prevent burning.

Sampled the temperatures at 5 minute intervals. Measured the propylene glycol temperature inside the boiler, and the temp at the top of the strip column just below where it feeds into the big Liebig.

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That strip column is 40" high to give me clearance to get onto the work surface.

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Now bear in mind this is a water and vinegar mix and not ethanol, but it took 60 minutes till I needed to switch on the coolant, and I started collecting within 65 minutes of turning on the power.

As for collection rates.

Glycol 121 degrees, head temp 81 degrees, condensate at 28/30 ml per minute
Glycol 130 degrees, head temp 81 degrees, condensate at 40 ml per minute.

Now I don't know the temperature at which propylene glycol boils, and I don't know how fast it will produce ethanol at these settings but as striping runs go - how does that compare to other heating techniques?

I collected 1.5 litres in 40 minutes and then stopped. Will do another run later with just steam, then a longer run with cheap alcohol to season the copper.
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

I have ditched the thumper as I was having problems with sealing it. It will not be wasted as I will simply use it as a smoker instead. :)

The still now looks like this:

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The top half ot the 2" column is not fitted at this moment!!

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Yes I know there is a valve there. It will be interlocked to the valve on the column so that they can NOT be both shut at the same time. The expansion chambers go from 2" to 1.25". I am trying to put in turbulence and some natural reflux to simmulate a taller neck on the pot. Have no idea if it will have any effect in practice.

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I already had some of these joints made up and put this together so as not to waste the fitttings. It curves in all 3 directions but it shold still work OK. I did try to desolder the couplings but some just did not want to move :roll:

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Tapered arm and double Liebig. Should do the trick. :D
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by rad14701 »

Interesting still design, myles... :shock: My wallet aches just looking at it... :econfused:
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by goose eye »

im betin 8 easy when all said an done
heck of a job
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Re: Modular Combination Still

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goose eye wrote:im betin 8 easy when all said an done
How many zeros do you spell with that?
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myles
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

I have been playing and experimenting. There are more bends than I would like in the arm, but I had some of them already and didnt want to waste them.

I tell you one thing though - I am absolutely convinced that adding a copper top to a stainless boiler section is the way to go. Certainly as far as ease of manufacture.

It may not be the cheapest still about - BUT IT HAS COST ME LESS TO BUILD THAN SOME OF THE COMMERCIAL OFF THE SHELF JOBS.

Anyway I am not doing it to be cheap :lol: I want to make better than I can afford to buy, and I think I should be able to do that :D :D
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by LWTCS »

myles wrote:It may not be the cheapest still about - BUT IT HAS COST ME LESS TO BUILD THAN SOME OF THE COMMERCIAL OFF THE SHELF JOBS.

Anyway I am not doing it to be cheap I want to make better than I can afford to buy, and I think I should be able to do that
No worries, we appreciate the pics and just love looking at copper(and your work space too).

When will you run this half of the unit?
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by rad14701 »

I think myles is more addicted to soldering than distilling... :P
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by myles »

rad14701 wrote:I think myles is more addicted to soldering than distilling... :P
:lol: :P :lol:
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50 litres of rum wash fermenting, and 15 gallons of plum ( 54 lbs) soaking in just boiled water, to soften the fruit. :D

I have 4 of those 160 litre drums ( yes they are ex-coke cola syrup HDPE) all fitted with 3kW elements
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They are just a bit more convenient to move around than the 200 litre size. I try to ferment 100 litres at a time as my still takes 20-22 litres to fill, after it has been stripped it is just about right. 160 litres leaves enough head space for foam etc during fermentation. Having the elements fitted means I can boil water before adding the sugar, very convenient, :D

I do like to build my own tools, but mostly I like to drink grappa style fruit brandy. And rum, but who doesn't like rum :?: :?:
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Re: Modular Combination Still

Post by LWTCS »

Holy muther of..............

Go Myles go :shock: :D :wink:
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