Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

birdwatcher · Post by **birdwatcher** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:50 am

ahiaruhe wrote:I'm on my third 25l Birdwatchers and I'm finding that a steady 30C does the job best for me. I've got a heating pad under a plastic fermenter. I just started my 4th today in a 20l bucket while the 3rd finishes - got bang on the 1.09 SG to start and it's got a lovely thick heaving layer of something over the top of it already. The one that's finishing is just dipping below 1.000 tonight and still bubbling nicely, and the wash is tasting drier than I've had in the first two I tried. Getting the hang of it!

Cool, sounds perfect.

I use a 106 liter opaque white Rubbermaid plastic storage container with a lid. With an 80 liter wash and a hole in the lid to accommodate an aquarium heater, I can maintain a constant temperature. I've never tried a heating pad; it would probably work nicely also.

The larger container would save you some time.

Good luck and keep us posted.

G

plumber77 · Post by **plumber77** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:16 am

gday guys! Man...... i have my first batch brewing 1x 25litre(5 gallon) and 1x 50 litre(10 gallon)This brew is going off!! It has been bubbling away like a man possessed! Just using this recipe .Im using rain water, as i live on 244 acres and i have a 28,800 gallon tank! i used a hydrometer at the start of this batch and it read 1090 exactly( i had no idea how to use a hydrometer, but persisted!)Its been 24 hours and both carbouys (with airlocks) are goin nuts! Im so excited, i cant wait to see what the hell happens. I havent taken pictures but man i think this "leggo's" tomato paste is rockin. I was a little taken back when i read tomato paste is a good nutrient base...but WOW! Cant wait to take pics and to give a run down on temps and levels and such! Ill keep you posted

birdwatcher · Post by **birdwatcher** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:42 am

Sounds good.

Good luck.

G

plumber77 · Post by **plumber77** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:09 am

Gday guys, its now day 4 and my 10 gallon batch has slowed right up and the hydrometer reads 980! I tasted it and it tastes dry , and isnt sweet....i assume this is now ready to run! The smaller carbouy is still active and im about to test it with a hydrometer........ok results are in.. 1150, still fizzin away!

got me puzzeled why the big batch has worked faster..

Post by **olddog** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:16 am

You ain;t going to get better than 980, time to run it, the other one will be ready for your next run.

plumber77 · Post by **plumber77** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:32 am

i must of misread the hydrometer ..it reads 960..... is that good or bad lmao?

Nightforce · Post by **Nightforce** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:28 pm

Ketchup was covered in an earlier post but how about tomato soup? Would that be an acceptable substitute for the tomato paste?

Ingredients:
Tomato puree (water and tomato paste)
High fructose corn syrup (more sugar)
Wheat flour
salt
spice extract (not sure what this could be)
vitamin C
citric acid

From the ingredients is seems to have all that's needed/wanted from other recipes I've read

Post by **rad14701** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:58 am

Tomato Paste works best... Other tomato products may have oils, spices, salt, preservatives, etc in them... You could try them but their performance is questionable...

Ingredients: Tomatoes

Nightforce · Post by **Nightforce** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:41 pm

I'd written down both Birdwatchers and Winoes' recipes and accidentally crossed them thinking I'd scaled down Birdwatchers to 23L. Well, I gotta say one thing...it certainly kicked off quick! I mixed it all up to 1.090 and aerated with an aquarium pump and stone for ~2h, then removed it and proceeded to do some computer work for some clients and checked them just now and WOW!!!, it's fermented better than both my other washes.

Nutrients are definitely the key as well as pitching a large amount of yeast. Despite having some Red Star Champagne on hand, I pitched Fliechmans bakers yeast instead, and now I have a a nice solid ferment going.

birdwatcher · Post by **birdwatcher** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:25 am

Follow either my recipe or wineo's and you won' t have a problem. The aeration as described is an interesting idea which I've thought of trying.

I didn't because the wash is so active anyway, there's no need.

Don't mess with it now, just let it finish. Good luck and keep us posted.

Cheers,

G

Nightforce · Post by **Nightforce** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:17 am

The air stone works great. Had an extra pump ($8) from some hydroponics stuff I was trying (no, not what you think, wanted tomatoes in December, got them, but wasn't worth the effort) and a 6" air stone strip that I thought I'd try and it seems to work quite well.

Went grocery shopping today and checked ingredients on some Hunts and Great Value tomato paste. Hunt's paste is similar to the tomato soup with the exception of wheat flour, salt, and HFC syrup; it still contains some spices. Great Value tomato paste listed only tomato puree, so I got 4 6oz. cans of that. Any body know what 0.8625 cups of tomato paste equals in 6oz. cans? :J I think I worked it out to be 1.21 cans so I only used a can.

So far the ferment looks like it's ahead of a normal "pitch on top" wine kit ferment by at least 48 hours. It didn't kick off as fast as a turbo, but not to far behind it and it smells a LOT better; just yeast with a hint tomatoes.

As an aside, has anyone tried this wash with say a Red Star Premier Cuvee or Champagne yeast?

plumber77 · Post by **plumber77** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:52 pm

this recipe is the bomb! i ran my first lot last night! 700mls of 95% abv,fantastic tasting,smelling result

i still have 50 litres of wash to run(pardon the pun)

birdwatcher · Post by **birdwatcher** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:07 am

Enjoy and seasons greetings.

G

drifter · Post by **drifter** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:49 pm

I've got my first 25 litre batch fermenting nicely and it's now the 6th day. I divided the ingredients down (used 75g of active dried yeast & 130g of tomato paste) and decided to use a total of 5.5kg of sugar, but noted an earlier post on this and decided to put 2/3 of the amount (3.7kg) in on the first day, which brought the starting SG to 1.060. The following day I added the remainder (1.8kg) but as the stuff was foaming so much I couldn't check the SG that day so I assumed it was close to 1.090.

I've stirred & checked the SG daily and it is now starting to slow down, but I don't think it will reach .990 at the rate it is going. The temperature has been kept at a constant 24 degrees right through. If it doesn't go past about 1.020 or 1.015 is that indicating that there is too much unconverted sugar left in there and that next time I should put less? Or does it mean I didn't add enough yeast? I estimate it's got about 8% ABV now so I guess it should have longer to go yet.

My daily readings are:
Start 1.060
1st day 1.090 ?
2nd day 1.070
3rd day 1.054
4th day 1.044
5th day 1.036
6th day 1.030

Seasons Greetings

bstinga · Post by **bstinga** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:06 pm

Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe
by Nightforce » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:17 am

The air stone works great. Had an extra pump ($8) from some hydroponics stuff I was trying (no, not what you think, wanted tomatoes in December, got them, but wasn't worth the effort) and a 6" air stone strip that I thought I'd try and it seems to work quite well.

Just a caution on future use of the airstone, make sure you disinfect it well and rinse out between use as these are very porous and could potentially introduce unwanted organism infections to your next wash. Some people even fo as far as making a little filter in the airline with cotton and ethanol to prevent infections from the air being pumped in - I am sure there is a detailed post on here or one of the other main forums about it.

Thanks for the updates on how things are going though!

birdwatcher · Post by **birdwatcher** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:00 am

drifter wrote:I've got my first 25 litre batch fermenting nicely and it's now the 6th day. I divided the ingredients down (used 75g of active dried yeast & 130g of tomato paste) and decided to use a total of 5.5kg of sugar, but noted an earlier post on this and decided to put 2/3 of the amount (3.7kg) in on the first day, which brought the starting SG to 1.060. The following day I added the remainder (1.8kg) but as the stuff was foaming so much I couldn't check the SG that day so I assumed it was close to 1.090.

I've stirred & checked the SG daily and it is now starting to slow down, but I don't think it will reach .990 at the rate it is going. The temperature has been kept at a constant 24 degrees right through. If it doesn't go past about 1.020 or 1.015 is that indicating that there is too much unconverted sugar left in there and that next time I should put less? Or does it mean I didn't add enough yeast? I estimate it's got about 8% ABV now so I guess it should have longer to go yet.

My daily readings are:
Start 1.060
1st day 1.090 ?
2nd day 1.070
3rd day 1.054
4th day 1.044
5th day 1.036
6th day 1.030

Seasons Greetings

It might not reach .990. John Stone suggests starting at 1.06 in his book Making Gin and Vodka. I usually start around 1.07. Makes no difference to the end product. Cheers. G

coppercreature · Post by **coppercreature** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:17 pm

Just started a 40l batch tonight.
Cleaned and sanitized 55l Polypropylene storage bin with tight fitting lid. I liked the polypro because of the smooth sides with fewer places for nasties to hide vs. the LDPE of the Rubbermaid buckets. Wish I could find a 15 gallon HDPE container with a tight lid for $4, but that ain't gonna happen.
Gravity started at 1.080 (used a bit more water to top up and didn't measure too carefully - should finish completely, though.) Mistake I made was to try a starter with 125g of rehydrated yeast - topped over the bowl in a matter of minutes.

Tossed that starter due to the huge mess and contamination risk (Fleishmans is cheap) and then did the 'sprinkle over' method. Also used an air stone to aerate - I use my son's nebulizer which has a medical grade HEPA filter on the intake, and I boil the airstone for 10 minutes before it goes in the wash. Also helps to use the strerile tubing that comes with most air masks (being a firefighter comes in handy sometimes.... free medical stuff.) Looking forward to a nice, clean, fast batch!

birdwatcher · Post by **birdwatcher** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:14 am

Sounds good. The airstone is interesting and I will try it, but I really don't think it accomplishes anything. Remove it and you will see your wash churning away, just on its own. Watch your temperature and keep us posted.

Good luck and Seasons Greetings to your family and yourself.

G

myerfire · Post by **myerfire** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:39 am

I use an airstone with every new batch. It is supposed to help with yeast propagation.
myerfire

Bobbydog · Post by **Bobbydog** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:16 pm

Hi everyone, I'm curious if anyone has tried using a submersible pond pump just running away on the bottom of the fermenting tank? I've seen a few references to Mr. Stone's "Making Gin and Vodka" book and in that book he recommends using a pond pump. I've started my very first batch a week ago, and I've got a pond pump running in there. Being new I have no idea if this is a good idea or not. Any info would be appreciated..

Bob

myerfire · Post by **myerfire** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:30 pm

I think I read that if you use a pond pump, you should run the air through a filter and a stainless steel stone and it takes an hour or two to put enough oxygen in your wash, as our atmosphere only has 20% oxygen. Using pure oxygen through a stone and filter, it only takes 60 seconds.
Here are a couple of links.
myerfire
http://morebeer.com/view_product/16607//Aeration_System" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://morebeer.com/view_product/18252/ ... ygen_Stone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Post by **Dnderhead** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:09 pm

that is sort of tuchey, o2 in the begining is good it helps the yeast to maltaply, but after it starts to make alcohol
it can turn it into vinegar.

Post by **rad14701** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:16 pm

Dnderhead wrote:that is sort of tuchey, o2 in the begining is good it helps the yeast to maltaply, but after it starts to make alcohol
it can turn it into vinegar.

+1

birdwatcher · Post by **birdwatcher** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:28 am

On the subject of adding air, i.e. air stones or pond pumps; with the BW wash recipe, I really don't believe this step is necessary nor does it improve the process.

The activity of the wash alone, after the yeast is added, creates enough circulation. I sometimes give the wash a stir, say daily, just to keep things moving, but this probably isn't necessary.

However, adding the airstone won't hurt anything either, if you feel more comfortable doing so. But a pond pump, Jeez.

Have a good day all.

G

coppercreature · Post by **coppercreature** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:01 pm

Just a follow up on my 40l batch, used the airstone and I *think* it finished in about 4 days. Thought it got stuck at 1.012, but then after a few more days, realized that the hydrometer just bottomed out in the container I was using. Duh!

It was actually at .995. I'll probably keep using the airstone, cause it didn't hurt and young yeast like O2, but I'd agree with BW - you probably don't need to go out of your way to impregnate your wash with air to get the ferment going. Took off like a bat outta hell.

birdwatcher · Post by **birdwatcher** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:02 am

coppercreature wrote:Just a follow up on my 40l batch, used the airstone and I *think* it finished in about 4 days. Thought it got stuck at 1.012, but then after a few more days, realized that the hydrometer just bottomed out in the container I was using. Duh! It was actually at .995. I'll probably keep using the airstone, cause it didn't hurt and young yeast like O2, but I'd agree with BW - you probably don't need to go out of your way to impregnate your wash with air to get the ferment going. Took off like a bat outta hell.

Sounds great.

I rest my case.

Have a good day all and happy distilling.

G

Bobbydog · Post by **Bobbydog** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:49 am

I'm sorry I think everyone missunderstood me. A pond pump sits at the bottom of the tank just circulating the fluid, it doesnt add any air at all. The reason for the pond pump is to keep the yeast from settling on the bottom and to prevent a "hot spot" when using fish tank heater as I'm using. I guess I should have been more descriptive.. My worry is that the pond pump will "grind" up the yeast as it goes through the impellor. However, I just checked my wash and its going off like crazy! So I guess all the yeast cant be ground up yet lol.. Thanks so much for all the responses though, forums are such a fantastic way to share information. I hope that I can return the favor some day

Currently I have two 70 litre batches going, both of them are identical except for the yeast used. For one I used regular bakers yeast and for the other I used Lalvin champagne yeast. I wanted to see which one would finish with a higher % for the dollar spent. The 230g bakers yeast cost me 8.00 Cdn and I used 8.00 dollars worth of Lalvin which is 8 small packets or 40g of yeast. I'm sure one of you have already tested this but I'm a hands on "learn the hard way" kinda guy

I'll be sure to post my findings next week. For anyone that is interested heres what I used in the wash..

16 kg white sugar
1 small can tomatoe paste
3 tablespoons of Spagnols yeast nutrient ( DAP, Yeast hulls, Vitamin B complex, Magnesium Sulphate )
16 tablespoons of Realemon concentrated lemon juice to bring the PH to 6.0

The SG at the start was 1.07
I pitched the yeast directly on top at 33 degrees celcius.
I have a fish tank heater in the tank holding the temp at 30 celcius
I've got a tiny pond pump running on the bottom of each tank
My starting PH was 7.0 so I kept adding lemon juice untill it was 6.0

I'll let you guys know how it turns out.. Thanks again for all the help, I appreciate it.

Bob

myerfire · Post by **myerfire** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:24 pm

Realemon lemon juice has a preservative in it and is not the best thing to use. Real lemons would be better, or pick up some citric acid, I think it cost less to use citric acid than real lemons. I can't comment on your pond pump, as I am still a novice, but just off the top of my head, I would say that it isn't necessary.
myerfire

Post by **rad14701** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:46 pm

Bobbydog, you pond pump theory was just as I had interpreted it... While circulation paddles and pumps are used by some larger distillers and brewers it is uncertain whether there is benefit with smaller washes... Due to the fact that no additional oxygen is being introduced it is doubtful that the procedure would hurt... Essentially, what you are doing is keeping more of the solids and yeast suspended for a greater amount of the fermentation time... I'm sure we'd all be interested in any statistical data you can compile with like washes fermented both with and without wash circulation as it would most likely have the same effects on any wash, not just the Birdwatchers recipe...

<<< Pats Bobbydog on the head and sends him off to the mad lab. >>>

Bobbydog · Post by **Bobbydog** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:45 pm

Damn.. never thought about the preservitives.. Real lemons werent an option though, I live out in the boonies and I was lucky to find Realemon at the little gas station we have. I'll have to pick up some citric acid next time I'm in the city.. I hope that my wash doesnt suffer too much because of my error.. Thanks for the heads up

Bob