Using baking soda to accelerate fermentation

[diesel4ever]

I don't know if this is a fluke but when I was having problems with my washes stalling I experimented with quart sized batches and different "reciepes" and found out that Ebay bought Fermax nutrient , Distillers yeast and 1/4 tsp. of baking soda per litre/quart accelerates the fermentation process (at least with my water with a pH of 7.2). Adding the baking soda before pitching the yeast more than doubled the speed of fermentation. As soon as it completes I will post the results.

[Dnderhead]

that I cant git a handel on that one,as yeast does not like sodium. if you have to rase PH your be better off with potassium bicarboate.
but yeast will work in a wide range of PH from 3.5--8. most brewers lower ph to 5.5-6 . not for the yeast but for enzymes and keep out infections.

[diesel4ever]

Don't know why it's working either. According to everyone here it should not work but I added 1 Tbsp. to a 5 gallon wash that had been stuck at 1.048 SG for at least a week and in 48 hours (so far) it dropped to 1.020 SG

[olddog]

Your PH was probably wrong, and the addition probably adjusted it in the right direction.

[diesel4ever]

Update on the baking soda experiment. My stuck wash finished today at .992 from 1.048 in 6 days and my quart jar went from 1.096 to 1.012 in 6 days which means it will probably take 7-8 days from start to finish which is the fastest ferment I've ever had to date with very simple and inexpensive ingredients.

[Hack]

I've been using baking soda to raise the pH on my UJSM because with my water if I add any backset it drops the pH too low. They seem to ferment and distill just fine.

Dnderhead, I'll look for some potassium bicarbonate and see how that works.

[kazanas]

And about the making of ammonia, in your striping run??

[Dnderhead]

calcium carbonate will also work ,mite be easer to fiend. you can/should fiend at brew shop. just I thank you should stay away from sodum if you can.
and yeast can use both calcium and potassium.

[diesel4ever]

Hey Kazanas what does ammonia (NH3) have to do with adding baking soda?

[Dnderhead]

nitrates (nutrient)+alkaline (rises PH)= ammonia=blue distillerant.
whatch the PH and do not make a alkaline wash keep it on the acid side.4.5-5.5 is good.

[diesel4ever]

Okay. Got it. I'm sure that my finished wash is probably quite acidic so I should be fine.

[Dnderhead]

glad to help, thats what Im doing here. Well plus the pay

[Hack]

And about the making of ammonia, in your striping run??

I've read that as long as the wash is still acidic, pH less than seven, there should be no problems with producing ammonia. I've been using it to bring the pH up to around 4.5 - 5 and then fermenting which would drop it again. So far no problems.

After Dnderhead's comment on yeast not liking baking soda I did a little poking around. I found beer and winemakers use it to lower pH also so it should work for distilling, this was on John Palmer's how to brew site. It did warn to avoid using too much as it can cause an off (bitter?) taste in your beer or wine. I'm not sure if that's as much of a concern for distilling though.

[Dnderhead]

I'm not saying it wont work. I'm saying there are better alternatives. like calcium carbonate witch is also cheep and yeast like it.

[Hack]

I'm not saying it wont work. I'm saying there are better alternatives. like calcium carbonate witch is also cheep and yeast like it.

For me it's that I've been using baking soda because it's what I had and I was just wondering if I was going to be causing myself trouble by doing so. Ideally my goal is to avoid using anything like that to adjust pH.

[Dnderhead]

it could have a accumulating effect over time, as sodium does not git used by the yeast nor vaporised when distilled.
so each time you reuse the backset your adding more sodium. I do all grain mash and do not use "backsets" at all,
it was a water saving tekneek (and energy) as it was used to cook the next mash with while it was still hot.
but it also can inhibit enzymes (if doing a mash) some say it adds flavor Iv never found that to be true. I thank with sugar
wash like UJSM you have more flavor the more generations you do is because more corn/maze is being dissolved.The Effect of Distillery Backset on Hydrolytic Enzymes in Mashes"

Clara Cooper, Prof. Graham Stewart, and Dr James Bryce


In grain distilling, backset (stillage) from the bottom of the boiling column can be added to the mash, in place of water, as both a water and an energy saving measure. However, due to its acidity and other parameters, backset may cause conversion losses. The purpose of our preliminary investigations was to determine the effect of backset in all-malt mashes on a -amylase activity. This enzyme was assayed using a modified Megazyme kit. The effect on a -amylase of the addition of calcium ions to the mash was also investigated. Backset was added to account for 5% up to 25% of the mash liquid and a -amylase was determined over one hour of mashing. The addition of backset caused a significant loss in a -amylase activity. The greater the amount of backset added, the greater the loss of activity. The relationship between backset addition, length of mashing and loss of α-amylase activity is crucial in achieving fermentable extract.

[Hack]

...it could have a accumulating effect over time, as sodium does not git used by the yeast nor vaporised when distilled...

The cumulative effect is something I've been concerned about as well.

... some say it adds flavor Iv never found that to be true...

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed that.

[HookLine]

I would avoid using anything with sodium in it to adjust pH if you are recycling the backset/dunder. Stick to potassium bicarb, or especially calcium carbonate (my choice).

Dunder, interesting what that study says about the effect of using backset on conversion in all grain, and also what you say about it not improving flavour either.

glad to help, thats what Im doing here. Well plus the pay

Your check is in the mail, sir. No, really. Would I lie to you?

[Dnderhead]

If it is such a good flavor enhancer, no use going on , just fill up your glass and take a big swig
I have see the brake down on "backset" and for the most part it's acids and proteins ,the stuff that cant ferment.
most all the "goodies" are gone,(or should be if you had good ferment) some other "backset" I cant speak for like molasses. as I don't work with them that much.
Most all the web sites are confusing, Iv seen many that say " when doing a sour mash ,start the next ferment with "back set" instead of yeast"
if back set" has been threw the boiler how is the yeast to survive? do they have some supper yeast I don't know about?
I believe over time the meaning of "back set" has changed.

[rad14701]

“backset”, which is recycled water from the end of the ethanol distillation process.

Definition hasn't changed... But I think it gets confused with trub and undistilled wash/mash at times...