neutral spirit taste, cooling rate.

[Vodka_Master]

For the guys running LM reflux stills, how netral of a spirit do you get out of it? Compared to unexpencive vodka (smirnoff, for example) does it have around the same taste? Better taste/ more neutral? On my first run, what I got wasnt all too good tasting, but i expect it was just because 1. I ran it too high temp and 2. i should increase reflux rate at the end, to get purer stuff out and try to keep temp as constant as possible. And for those that use a closed system for cooling, what do you use? Like what pump (GPH), how big of a water container? Thanks in advance.

[rad14701]

Depending on your equipment you can either make pure neutral spirits easily or you may need to work at it... Even with my small scale apartment rig I can run pure ~95% ethanol or I can vary the percentage and, thus, the amount of flavor component...

There is a bit of a difference between shooting for "Vodka" or "neutral spirits"... Some "Vodka" has a flavor to it whereas "neutral spirits" generally won't have any flavor if distilled properly... If you were to use both a thermometer and a parrots beak and alcometer you can attain pure neutral spirits by locking in the temperature at 172F/78C with spirits at 95% ABV/190 proof... Without the alcometer you can effectively keep the spirits at temperature even if the proof is falling if you start still-jockeying... This will lead to spirits that have either a harsh flavor or off smells because you could potentially end up pulling early tails into the product...

I guess the short answer is "it's complicated"... You won't get it right on the first or second try, unless by dumb luck... Invest in a good thermometer, that reads in 1/10 degrees, and use a parrots beak and alcometer... The combination will yield the purest neutral spirits and from there you can add some of the "vodka" hints back into your spirits through blending...

[Vodka_Master]

I have a 5 ft column 1.5 inch in diameter, filled with stainless scrubbers. I also use a digital thermometer that reads up to 0.1 Celcius, and i also have an alcometer, but haven't had the time or the spare parts to build myself a parrot yet. I was hoping to go on without it, just reading the % from the bottles at the end to see how much to dilute (got 94% on the first run, but messed up because the temp was at 86 when i went to check on it)

About the cooling, what kind of pump should i use? I'm using a 50 GHP pump, but have a bit of vapor escaping from time to time. I know its not my coil ( made out of 15 ft of 3/8th) and i got it hooked up to a radiator too so the flow rate gets affected because of all the friction. Im going to invest in a new pump, got 2 choices, either 200 GHP of 320 GPH, so i was wondering what people use. Some feedback would be nice.

[Nightforce]

If the digital thermo is capable of being calibrated, I'd do so with distilled water. That way it should give you a better reading at around the 78C mark.

As far as the pump goes, I'm assuming that you're re-circulating the water, so I'd go for the larger pump. You could always build a small PWM controller to be able to vary the speed of the pump if it's 12V. If it's 120, a cheap router controller should work fine for that.

Pulling tails into your neutral can certainly ruin it. I usually make 500ml collections, that way if I forget or am not watching the output closely, I only trash the last 500ml; it also give me the flexibility to blend or keep only the best cuts.

[mfradman]

I have a 5 ft column 1.5 inch in diameter, filled with stainless scrubbers. I also use a digital thermometer that reads up to 0.1 Celcius, and i also have an alcometer, but haven't had the time or the spare parts to build myself a parrot yet. I was hoping to go on without it, just reading the % from the bottles at the end to see how much to dilute (got 94% on the first run, but messed up because the temp was at 86 when i went to check on it)

About the cooling, what kind of pump should i use? I'm using a 50 GHP pump, but have a bit of vapor escaping from time to time. I know its not my coil ( made out of 15 ft of 3/8th) and i got it hooked up to a radiator too so the flow rate gets affected because of all the friction. Im going to invest in a new pump, got 2 choices, either 200 GHP of 320 GPH, so i was wondering what people use. Some feedback would be nice.

Hi all I started with a potstill, I first cooled it with 10 feet of 1/4' tubing that was in a 5 gallon pail that had water running through it. Kind of messy. So I picked up another 10 feet of 1/4 tubing, connected that to what I had and mounted it all on a 20" fan, the kind we all have to move a little air when its hot. The still could run a stream and put out no vapor. If you don't mind the fan running on high for hours it does work well.
Hope this helps
Radman

[rad14701]

Hi all I started with a potstill, I first cooled it with 10 feet of 1/4' tubing that was in a 5 gallon pail that had water running through it. Kind of messy. So I picked up another 10 feet of 1/4 tubing, connected that to what I had and mounted it all on a 20" fan, the kind we all have to move a little air when its hot. The still could run a stream and put out no vapor. If you don't mind the fan running on high for hours it does work well.
Hope this helps
Radman

Your 10' of 1/4" wasn't enough worm and 1/4" isn't really large enough to not have flooding/surging... About 20' of 3/8" is about the smallest worm for an efficient cooling, whether using air or water...

How is your tubing attached to the box fan...??? Do you have a picture...???

[mfradman]

Hey Rad, like I said that was my first setup, when I built my reflux I took the tubing off the fan, I built a Parrot today I have it socking in some baking soda over night. I guess I'll try it in the morning, I have a run to make.
Radman

[pomiataa]

... Even with my small scale apartment rig I can run pure ~95% ethanol...

Hi Rad,
The mini-bok I built, according to Bokabob, makes 95%ABV. It has 18 inch ss packing.
In another post you said your reflux extension is 18 inch and with a little tuning you make 95%ABV.
I never made something above 92%.
If it is not a secret, could you share with us what kind of tuning is required?
Your time spending to answer our questions is really appreciated.

[cemik1]

Check (calibrate) your alcometer.
Do not stick to this 78ºC. The head temperature changes (e.g. with atmospheric preasure). My guide:
1. Write down temperature after satbilisation and head collection.
2. Set RR about 4.
3. Collect heart.
4. Stop collect heart when tepmerature rise is 0.1ºC above the written one.
5. Stabilise head temperature again and decrease product ratio (increase reflux) to 1/3 previous one.
6. Colect product up to 0.1ºC temperature rise.
7. Stop collect (it is better to block product pipe than change valve setting).
8. Wait for head temperature decrease and go to point 6.
You can repaet seps 6,7,8 up to 99.9ºC in the boiler or to loose your patience. In the second loop I ussually increase heating up to 150% previous value.
Alcohol from the third step is used for the second rectification, from sixth is added to the next first mash run. Sometimes I add baking soda before second rectification. Always make carbon filtering after the second. Some high premium sort vodka requires third rectification. In my case the temperature margins for second run is 0.05ºC but it is hard (expensive) to get meter with 0.01ºC resolution. Distilled or deionised water must be used at least for the last dillution.
I can guarantee you will never buy commercial vodka (even the most expensive) when you follow above procedure.

[rad14701]

pomiataa, not secret tuning, just minor adjustments to heat input and reflux ratio... Because my boiler is relatively small at 8 quarts it requires more fine tuning than would a larger boiler... The percentage of alcohol in your wash is a given... Therefore, the only variables are heat input, coolant flow, and reflux ratio... Some stills can produce 95%, but only at a 1 drip per second (or slower) take off rate... It's up to you, as the driver, to determine how fast or slow you are willing to go... For me, anything much under 2 drips per second is too slow for the added benefit of purity and I'll hasten the take off rate and re-distill for purity...

cemik1 has given a good overview of the process... You can vary the steps to suit your equipment as needed...

[pomiataa]

Thanks Semik and Rad. I'll experiment next time.
I distilled at 1 drop/sec, but when I used glass beads and it was always 92%.
I hope the S.S. I am using now will help.

[rad14701]

Scrubbers have 3x the HETP value of 1/2" marbles so they should help increase purity... Every last little bit of purity gets harder and harder to attain...

[Vodka_Master]

I bought a new pump today, 320 GHP pond pump. I put it a 80L container filled with mostly very cold water, and topped off with snow. Now my cooling water goes from container, to coil, then through a cooper radiator (clean rad newly bought meant to be used in computer water cooling) and back to container.It's pretty intense now, my vapor temp went down at the beginning, to 78.5 but went back up to 78.9 after heads collection, not like first run where it stayed constant at 78.9 all the time. Plus there is no vapor escaping now, the top of the coil is cold to the touch, water from coil to radiator is 40-50 ish and what goes back is room temp (20's). Everything is perfect now, dont need to change the water or anything, its all being recycled. It's been 3 hours and still half of the snow left. I just hope this time im gonna get some pure neutral stuff. When my temp will go up by .1 C i will change bottles and try playing around with the valve, if i screw up or bad comes out i still have my good bottle, and the rest can always go for next distillation.