clogged drain disaster

[still_in]

i posted a while ago about "quitting all-grain" due to the many hassles inherent in the process, especially in the area of spent grain disposal. i live in a small apartment in a dense city so its not easy to find a place for gallons and gallons of soggy grain.
i didn't quite quit, though, and i wish i did. instead i kept adding grain and sugar to my big fermenter in a kind of variation on the UJSSM theme. i was on the 4th or 5th generation and i had mostly just added more and more grain without taking much away. i probably had 50lbs of it.

now, a good chunk of that gloppy sludge is lodged in the main drain pipe the leads from my downstairs neighbour's sink to the apartment below his, the landlords.
just great.

i didnt mean to put all of that grain down the sink, i was just trying to pour the water bit on top off. needless to say enough grain got into the sink to cause a huge problem. it cleared my sink just fine, but my unhappy neighbour came upstairs to let me know that his sink was inexplicably filling with bizarre yellow sludge. no amount of plunging would help, it is a totally obstinate blockage.

so for now, because its late on saturday night, we are going to leave it. in the morning we will buy a sink snake/fish tool and try to dislodge the hell-block. i desperately hope that we don't have to call a plumber. i don't make my own likker because i have money to spare!!!!

ill post again if i have any news to report.

[Slow & Steady]

Ah Damn!!! I bet the fella down stairs is lovin you right about now. Try flushing it down the crapper.

S&S

[rubber duck]

UGGG, man that sucks. I'll give you a prayer tonight.

[rad14701]

This is a prime example of why I flush just about everything and nothing goes down the kitchen sink, even though I have a garbage disposal which I never use... I've unclogged, repaired, and replaced far too much plumbing to ever intentionally put solids down a drain... I only use the disposal for power purging the drain line and use a screen to catch all but the smallest solids...

Good luck, tapholov... I truly hope this incident doesn't bring on extremely burdensome consequences...

[still_in]

update, day two

hands are blistered and cut from fighting with plungers and drain snakes.

we were able to get the drain snake pretty far into the main pipe but seem to be unable to hit the actual blockage.

landlord is renting a motorised unit to try to go from below. not very fun working with this guy.

P.S THE ENTIRE BUILDING can't use their kitchen sink because they all go to this same main drain.

more to come...

[still_in]

i forgot to mention that last night the landlord called me a "big banana"
hmmmmmm

[Dnderhead]

""the landlord called me a "big banana"'

That's better than your wife/girlfriend calling you little banana

[ozone39]

If the main is clogged then I think there are other issues with the drainage system other than some used up wash doing down the pipe. Tree Roots?? or possibly a line that is back graded (settled or improperly installed)..

[still_in]

update

i've been working on it all day to no avail. the big problem now is landlord issues. i was able to get a motorized snake down from my apartment and bring up a mass of hair and black grease and sludge, and i was about to send it down again, thinking i probably hit the block. but the landlord now refuses to let me keep working on it and is calling the plumber in tonight. double time sunday night. i said i thought there was a pre-existing issue in the drain and that i shouldnt pay for all of it and he absolutely refuses that. turned into a big fight. im not the kind of guy to fight with people so its pretty awful.

he won't let me keep working on it, says theres no way it wasnt just the grain that clogged it and that we'll have to pay. now its a matter of what the plumber says is the cause, which is suspect to me since the landlord has a working relationship with this plumber and will try to skew events in his favor.

i definitely quit all grain.

[ozone39]

I would be standing over that plumbers shoulder with camera in hand when he pulls the snake back out of the clean out. If they refuse you access then I guess the landlord is willing to pay..

[still crazy]

P.S THE ENTIRE BUILDING can't use their kitchen sink because they all go to this same main drain.

more to come...

I own some rental property in the states and I have to maintain the building. Unless I can PROVE the damage was due to negligence or malice of the tenent and even then my damages are limited to security deposit without court.

I also have mucho experience with water drains and piping. If the drain is pluged at the bottom, lowest level, how can anyone ASSUME that the plugging came from the highest level. Make sure you stress you need to monitor the drain cleaning to accept any responsibility. If you can still use toilets, showers and other drains sounds like a partial clog in one drain arm.

[blind drunk]

Make sure you stress you need to monitor the drain cleaning to accept any responsibility.

Maybe even ask for a written report; if the plumber and landlord are friends, the plumber might feel a little more exposed (the written word always does that) and be compelled to tell the truth. With any luck the problemo will be on Municipal property and you'll all be scott free. Good luck, bd.

[rad14701]

With any luck the problemo will be on Municipal property and you'll all be scott free. Good luck, bd.

Around here the property owner is responsible for all utilities clear to the mains... That means all inbound water lines and all outbound waste lines... If it connects your property to the municipal services, you are responsible for any services, repairs, or replacements...

still crazy, I sure hope this doesn't end up costing you your humble abode...

[ScottishBoy]

I landlord a bit of property and I can tell you that if the clog isnt actually in your area, then it should be his responsibility. It sounds like there was a partial blockage in the area to pipe to the street already and the grain was able to plug it up the rest of the way. So the pipe was not functioning up to snuff to begin with and should have been able to handle the load. Since the grain was already wet, it should not have caused an expansion issue. I had one tenant try to flush a container of some type of gristed flour down the toilet. Well, you can imagine what happened when the water hit it.
It was in his area, so it was his fault, but if it had made it into the mains and didnt work, then it would have been my job.

Since he called you a Banana, he's alright with you staying, but the fight may have turned that around. Around here " Banana" is a term used for a tenant who is "A little goofy but means well." I can tell you from experience that landlords dont like high pressure tenants. I can also tell you that the chances of him being able to successfully kick you out in the wintertime are pretty low.

Hopefully, by the time this post is read by you, all will be well.

In the meantime, I will pray that someone flushed a small stuffed animal..

[still crazy]

still crazy, I sure hope this doesn't end up costing you your humble abode...

Its "still in" with the drain problem its getting like china here so many wings and so many wongs you just winged the wong number

[still_in]

haha stillcrazy! i was thinking of changing my name, it is a admittedly a bit generic (no offense to your name tho!)

also thanks to everyone for your encouraging words and opinions.

last night was difficult. the plumber came, did the exact same thing i was doing (going down from my apartment) with the exact same tool i was using and ended up pulling up the exact same stuff that i was getting. which is hair, steel wool, and greasy sludge. so dumb that the landlord didnt let me keep working on it.

originally the LL said that we will go with what the plumber says. the plumber a) found absolutely NO GRAIN and b) said it was an existing blockage that was exacerbated by the grain passing through. i, being a nice guy and uninterested in protracted battles, take that to mean we should pay 50-50 split, not including the $70 that the LL offered to pay due to his forcing the situation by calling a plumber on a sunday. in the case that means we pay $100 and the LL pays $170.

we have not "submitted" our offer yet but from here on in it will be totally formal in letter form as it is impossible to effectively communicate with the LL.

All the evidence is in our favour so I doubt the LL will want to take it to the rentals board (takes years). Its just a matter of "serving the documents".

Will continue to keep you posted about this little drama.

P.S

The plumber thinks its so cool that I make "beer" and when I called him today to confirm the cost he said "oh your the beer guy from last night, cool!"

[rad14701]

@stillcrazy

Sorry... Too damned many stillers around here...


@still in

You folks have it much better in Canada, by the sound of things... It doesn't take much for a landlord to oust a tenant around here and the courts are, albeit unjustly, in their favor... And forget about hiring an attorney for defense... I had to take an ex-landlords attorney, as well as my ex-attorney to court to prove they were both wrong, as well as the court judge... None of them liked the fact that I was 100% right and they were all wrong - because I knew the laws as fact and they didn't... Loose, or ignorant, interpretation of the laws was their undoing...

Good luck...

[ScottishBoy]

Wow. I dont know about you Rad, but it takes an act of God to remove a bad tenant around here. When we get winter squatters, they can can stay in the apartment until spring, usually with just a sob story or two and a visit from the police. I had a friend who had a couple do that to him. Came in September, he finally got them out in April next year. No rent at all.

I have to admit, I hate scummy landlords. Thats why I always try to be a good one. Just better kharma I guess.

Still_in, if there wasnt any grain, Im not sure how that can be construed as a an exacerbent condition. There's just no evidence there to back it up. But..if 100 bucks will make it go away, then I would consider it. Finding a decent place to live can be a real pain.

SB

[Coyote]

still_in wrote:
P.S THE ENTIRE BUILDING can't use their kitchen sink because they all go to this same main drain.

more to come...

Something "WONG" with this, plumbing trees are not built in a manner that all the kitchen sinks
go into one line and the bathroom sinks and toilet go elsewhere, at least not in the USA.

If you are pulling back hair and grease the grain didn't help but most likely only provided the final
plug not the root cause. They make a item called a DRAIN KING, screws on to your garden hose
available at every hardware store. Great product if you read the instructions first and you are not
going into old soil pipe

Good Luck
COyote

[still_in]

in this building built in early 20th century the main drain for the sinks (all stacked above each other) seems to be separate from the toilet/bathroom drain.

the block is gone now so that part is done. its just a matter of reaching an agreement with the landlord.

[still_in]

latest thing:

we have received an offer from LL to pay 70. less than their initial 85. dicks. anyway we can't decide if we should counter offer that we pay 100 (half of the cost minus 70) or simply tell them we wont pay a cent.

its likely that they wont take us to the rental tribunal but even if they do we would probably win.

however that would take months or years and in the meantime we'd have to live in a very tense apartment building with landlords who hate us.

what should we do!>!!?!

[blind drunk]

Make him an offer he can't refuse

Does he know about the stillin?

bd

[ScottishBoy]

Meet him halway and share a beer or two with him. There are few things that can replace an affectionate landlord.

[blanikdog]

Sure makes owning your own home sweet. I've only had experience with one rented property and I decided then that landlords and their agents are not very nice people.

I wonder if by offering to pay half can be construed as admitting that it's all your fault???

blanik

[rubber duck]

Guess it all depends on how long you plan on staying there. If you plan on sticking around pay it, money well spent in the long run. Whatever you do don't lose sleep over it.

[ozone39]

Gotta watch out with the garden hose, if the blockage can resist enough water head pressure you'll have a fountain coming out of the upstairs tenants sink (or the next lowest fixture on that level) or out the vent through the roof. I've actually seen sewer snakes come out of the roof vent (about 10 feet of it) and tear up some paint and roofing (this is what generally happens when plumbers do not use the right fittings in the waste and vent system).....

[Ayay]

If you pay any money out of your good heart, add a rider, "This payment in no way whatever however construed schemed or concockted is NOT an admission confession nor sbmission that I admit any liability or guilt whatsoever", or words to that effect

[Nightforce]

+1 for what Ayay said.

If you pay by check, just add "In good faith" or "No admission of guilt" in the memo area, if he cashes it, he's accepted that payment as such and can't hold you liable for more in a court.

[still_in]

interesting idea nightforce.

we gave them a letter early this week and have not heard from them since. makes us nervous.

[still_in]

so im happy to say that this issue has finally been resolved (more or less)

4 days after getting our letter the landlords agreed to split the cost. the conversation was not pleasant but it did not descend into an argument and no other animosity was generated. now i can finally breathe easy.

no big deal, i just paid $135 to dispose of a few cups of spent grains.