Weavils in my corn! the Horror

[Fester]

from wikipedia... A weevil is any beetle from the Curculionoidea superfamily. They are usually small, less than 6 millimetres (0.24 in), and herbivorous...

whether you spell them weevils or weavils, who cares... they invaded my corn and my barley last year. in fact, they spread into the pantry and contaminated other foodstuffs - even into bags of cereal and rice that i thought were tightly sealed. I tossed the lot out. was i wrong to do this? could i have safely fermented it anyway? ( thinking, cover with water and skim the critters off the top?) how can this malady be prevented?

I've heard that cloves or bay leaves sprinkled over the top of grain goods will deter weavils but i don't know. and i really don't like the flavor of cloves.

Any suggestions or experience? freezing everything is not an option for me and i would rather buy in bulk sometimes instead of making many small trips for grain. we all know that 10 pounds of corn from the store costs about the same as 50 pounds from the feed store. Frugal Fester is finally frowning.

Anyone out there have the cure for Fester's festering foodstocks? please be forthcoming and fix this so Fester can be more festive.

FromTightFisted Fester

[Husker]

I had a weevil infestation a couple years back (same as you, they got in my pantry, and even into many sealed products, yuck)

I think they can come in the actual corn batch, as eggs, and then simply hatch and take over from there.

Well, since you store in a large plastic barrel (from another post), I wonder if you can fill the barrel with your corn, and then fill it with pure CO2 (from fermenters). CO2 in concentration should be deadly for the eggs or weevils. CO2 is heavier than air, so it should stay in the barrel if you have a lid for it, and do not store it in a windy place. You would likely have to replenish the CO2 every once in a while, and try to not open the main barrel 'too' often. I think this can be done with pure nitrogen also (how long term storage foods are often packed). Biggest thing is to keep the O2 out of there.

I will also be looking for a 'safe' way to store. I plan on getting 10 bu or so of Corn, and a few bu of wheat and some rye, to work on the rest of the summer/fall. I do not want to experience the pain and anguish of having to deal with a very pissed off Mrs Husker due to bug infestation again. That is a very quick way to lose brownie points, no matter how many honey-do points I have built up..

H.

[Fester]

Wow, Husker. A very big slap on the front of my head. I own a large welding shop and fitting a CO2 cylinder to the corn storage bin under very low continous pressure is a no brainer for me. I just never thought of it. No oxygen = no bugs?.... crap, why didn't i think of that? or the speed wrench? or the ipod?
stop the oxygen = stop the bugs? I can do that. and i can do it a helava lot cheaper than freezing everything. just a CO2 cylinder with a regulator set to deliver an ounce an hour should do it for a bushel or so in a 50 gallon plastic trash can. a 20 pound CO2 cylinder should last, well, almost forever. Or harvest the CO2 from the fermenter? So Al Gore, gotta love it! But it is more work. Just ask Mrs. Gore.

Unique concept, I like it. Starve them from oxygen and they will remain dormant. Cool.

Yu Da Man, Husker

LearningSomethingAllTheTime,

CO2 Fester

[Fester]

corn lost = $20 at leat
Barley lost = $42 at least
cereals and rice lost = $60 at least
cost of CO2 = $10 at most (since i own everything and really the CO2 is much less than that)

its a no brainer.

solution acheived.

**** if you don't own a welding shop, you will need a CO2 cylinder full of CO2 and a regulator. It is up to you as far as costs because I have paid both money and nothing to set this up. I regulary get both free or at low costs. Last year I found 2 full 65 pound CO2 cylinders and a regulator next to my dumpster. Of course I snagged them! now if they will just dump some 2" copper pipe....

Fester

[rednose]

To prevent in a home brewers place, cheapest and easiest would be to connect a fermenter for the CO2 to the store vessel.

Here it's quiete common that you have some of this little buggers in a 50 kg sack but they don't like water and swimm on top so you can just filter 'em off with a spagetty screen in the fermenter, it won't hurt the wash.

Joe

[Husker]

I think plumbing the gas-off from the fermenter into the grain storage is the no brainer. Easy and free. When you get the grain, that is usually when you start kicking off the fermentation 'cycles', thus your supply of free gas starts. When you run out of grain, your fermentation stops, but of course you do not have grain stored, since it was used. Pretty much a self regulation and self survival of your product. I never saw the problem when I got propane dried corn. The problem started when I started getting 'fresh dried' corn, to use for malting, etc. That is why I am pretty sure the grain actually brought in the eggs, and when the conditions were right, they hatched.

I am looking at something like this, this time. 10 bu (probably 15 if the other grains are put into it) is a shit load (for me), and the wife will SHOOT me, if all of that gets buggy again. However, if I can plumb up from fermenter(s) into the storage vats, then I should be able to assure the 'boss' that there will be no bugs possible, until the grain is gone, and then simply sterilize the containers, and move them out to the storage unit.

No mess, no loss, and no bugs.

H.

[Fester]

it won't hurt the wash.

Joe

but i usually do the UJSSM thing and kinda worry about the bugs contaminating the wash. i guess it is not a concern when i think about it because i have so much yeast built up its got to overwhelm the nasties from the bugs, right?
I haven't had a batch fail yet and I've done dozens of batches of it.



Goodness Husker, you are right on the money! As long as I have grain I will be fermenting and producing CO2. A true win/win. Another slap on my head. Just pipe the fermenter to the grain storage to keep the critters in check. A bit of a closed loop cycle that the smart guys always talk about? Damned nice. Simple and free. Just like Fester.

[Usge]

I've had a bugger of a time with the little buggers. Once you see them....your gonna have them a while. EVEN if you repackage everything you have in separate ziplock airtight bags. The eggs will hatch inside the bags. Co2 just slow them down. Even if you vacum sealed it, it would only put them in stasis. Once you bring it out to use? ...if you dont' use it within a couple weeks...you'll have bugs again. Funny thing is, I had 2 50lb sacks prior never had a problem (no bugs)..even keeping them a long time. But, once I got one that "did" have it....doesn't matter where I buy the corn...within a few weeks..it's gonna have them. I've cleaned, scrubbed, vacumed, done everything I can. They are damn near impossible to get rid of once you get them.

That said...I just grind the corn...and pour boiling water on it.....to make my mash....hundreds of them float up that I skim off. Then as I stir..more will come up. I get as many as I can. and don't worry about the rest. It's annoying..and I hate bugs, but it won't hurt your mash. They WILL eat your corn/grain though. Nothing but silt in the bottom of the bag.

[rubber duck]

Plastic bucket + dry ice = no bugs.

[Fester]

Usage, your reply is very much like my experience, hense the call for help.

The CO2 seems like the logical remedy, but it is untested by me. Sure hope it works because a weavil infestation is a bit like a sexual disease, i recon. It suc%s and you are fuc%ed.

Fester

[airhill]

I tried ozone and co2 it slows them down. On the upside and because I'm cheap I still use it for ferments of UJSM and the "extra nutrients" and finer corn seem to assist fermentation.

[HookLine]

If you are not going to malt the grain then it can be heated to maybe 45-50 ºC for a few hours, that will kill any bugs without affecting the grain.

[Fastill]

Weevil guts = yeast nutrients.
If we worried about every little bug, larvea or bug eggs in our food there would be NOTHING left for us to eat!!
Rinsing the corn and skimming the bugs off the top is the easiest way to deal with already infested corn. CO2 sounds like a good way to keep them dormant but the eggs are still in the corn we use everyday. I think the best way is to only buy enough corn that you can use it up and not let it sit around for long.
I don't let them bother me but I know that they are there in the corn, hiding, waiting to strike......

[Fester]

fermenting and distilling "on the weavil" would not bother me. but the infestation spread so quickly to other foodstocks I may have over reacted. its a very good chance that everything that i tossed could have been mashed and fermented.

I really like the idea of piping some CO2 into the grain storage bin.

[Husker]

If you are not going to malt the grain then it can be heated to maybe 45-50 ºC for a few hours, that will kill any bugs without affecting the grain.

This is why I did not have this problem for years, but got some 'natural' dried (i.e. was not put in grain bins, and dried with 10hp blower fans and propane burners). The propane dried corn (which I also got in cracked form), never had a bug problem. Most of that gets dried in 25k bu to 100k bu bins, with a stirring system, gas fires, and blowers, over a several week period. Pretty much gonna be bug free.

But then I got a hair, wanted to malt my own, so got some 'natural dried' whole kernel, and boom, vermin appeared. The corn I got, I got at harvest (Nov), and was going to malt about 1/4 of it over the winter, and then in the spring start the mashing. Well, about early March, we started seeing a few bugs, and then before I really started any fermenting, they were everywhere (late April). I tossed all I had (cept the malt, which was still good). I bought some dried cracked corn, and still did my stillin, but a large portion of that original corn (and LOTS of foodstocks) were tossed.

I used quite a bit of bleach, cleaning up, and we have not seen them since (fortunately). Mrs Husker was NOT happy about that round of problems.

H.

[Ayay]

A wiff of foreshots or early heads may send the bugs off. Never tried it but here's a thought; place a jar containing high-proof topped with a perforated lid inside the grain container. Just have to remember it's there before tipping the container over for some reason.

[anuran]

We've had weevils and moths over the years. Evil things.

The Extension Service can be very helpful. I called them and got a really useful pamphlet.

First off, get the right container. Metal, glass or thick food plastic with a good lid is the way to go. Sometimes putting the grain in the freezer for a few days will do the trick. A lot of species can't survive freezing. But some can. That's when dry ice is your friend. Put an inch or two of grain or flour into its container. Put a little dry ice on top of that. Fill most of the rest of the way with grain. Add a thin layer of dry ice. When it sublimes it will suffocate the insects and their eggs. Afterwards seal the container.

[Fester]

yeah, dry ice = CO2.

it seems to be the consensus here that CO2 in any form is the preventive measure for this scourge.

And since we get free CO2 from our fermenters, and because I am a very cheap bastard, that seems like the way to go.

By repurposing the waste gas (a tube from the fermenter's bubbler to the grain storage bin)...
that would normally vent into the atmosphere that Al Gore invented...
to keep the wee-evils dormant...
I should earn a few carbon credits?

How many carbon credits do i need to exchange them for a new hydrometer?

Frugal Fester

[Fester]

A wiff of foreshots or early heads may send the bugs off.

Ayay, it really could be that simple. As the fores outgassed from the container the critters should stay dormant. The whole idea is oxygen deprivation. And everyone here has plenty of that "ant killer" laying around.

If it worked, and I don't see why not, it would be a very simple solution. Even if it spilled, almost no harm done... right?

[Dnderhead]

MR Fester,,,
just like tax ,when you reach the point you earn millions so you no longer need credits/deductions. then you can claim the credits/deductions.
we do this with all clients, thus we keep the little guy in his place.
thank you I.R.S.

[Fester]

so no free hydrometer?
crap.
Fester has to pony up real money?

Geez, its like borrowing money from the bank. They will only let you borrow your own money now. After commissions of course.

[Usge]

If you already have a hydrometer, and enough money to purchase another one, we can give you a loan to buy one.

signed: The Bank

[HereComesTrouble]

Zombie thread.

This wasn't mentioned in this thread, but may have been somewhere else. Try a Google search on diatomacious earth and weevils. Seems almost too easy, but i'm going to try it for cheap insurance.

[Usge]

That looks good for treating areas, floors, walls, etc. But, how would you use it in a bag of corn? It's a dust that the bugs eat.

[cob]

That looks good for treating areas, floors, walls, etc. But, how would you use it in a bag of corn? It's a dust that the bugs eat.

food grade DE is available. it is deadly to a wide variety of insects including internal parasites. DE works because it is a razor sharp micro crystaline structure that slices the soft joint parts of an exoskeleton or the skin of soft insects and they dehydrate. accidental ingestion by insects is incedental, it works external or internal. a little go's a long way. use caution with DE inhalation by humans will cut the alvioli in your lungs, and while not normally deadly it causes harm. good research is mandatory for safety. i use food grade DE for insect and parasite control. do not use pool filter DE in place of food grade. cob

[HereComesTrouble]

Thanks Cob, of course you are correct on every count.

[Usge]

So you toss this in your bag of corn...then grind it up, ferment it, and distill it along with your corn??????

[cob]

So you toss this in your bag of corn...then grind it up, ferment it, and distill it along with your corn??????

usge in the corn only to kill weavils. its mostly silica, fosselized diatoms. it should not add or detract from a wash, just kill bugs, it shouldn't change the ph. cob
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[rad14701]

I seem to recall Diatomaceous Earth being used for clearing washes as well... You sprinkle it in and as it settles to the bottom it pulls any solids down with it...

[pigroaster]

Why not microwave corn with a glass of water present? The water will the the bulk of the energy from microwaves and if any eggs present or weavils are present, the eggs will burst and the weavils will die.