My Set up

[dellae]

Decided to purchase an off the shelf unit as I saw this and it looked simple.
Its a SS T500.
Makes 92-93% hooch when I run it slow.
I've run 150kg sugar so far with out any dramas.
25 L wash takes about 4 hours when I run through first on a cleaning run 88%.
Then I do a final run of 6 hours with 50% watered to get 92-93%.

IMG_2539.jpg

[Ayay]

Looks like you are doing it right in a beautiful and enhanced pot still, and a nice corner with plenty of headroom too. Slow and careful will deliver as you describe in ABV, but the cuts are the other half. Collect in small containers and take care with the cuts.

[Samohon]

+1 Ayay.

Nice compact SS Still. When I started to cut my hooch, especially neutrals, I would collect into 250ml jars, smelling and tasting all the time. Later, I was able to identify when the cuts were about to take place. But all wash's are different and produce cuts in different quantities. Taking the distillate off at a slow rate helps to aquire the precise spot to swap in/out the hearts collection jar.

My current rig (Boka above a VM), enables me to take the Foreshots, heads and tails with the LM and the hearts only with the VM. This really ensures that my neutrals are taste and smelless and have recorded the data for various recipes. It ensures that the cuts are, within a small margin of error, anticipated at the right time. Even with this method, I still taste and smell, observe the abv from the parrot and monitor the heat/collant sources.

Every still is different and produces a different result on the output for all stillers. You just have to find your own Sweet Spot with the rig that you have. I think that you are well on your way to learning all there is about your particular still. I feel sure that this setup is very capable of giving you the azeotope (96%) time and time again.... Good Luck man and keep us posted...

Oh Yeah, and Welcome to HD, youve came to the right place...

[kiwistiller]

I think that those are a bit of a step up in terms of brew shop stills. Over the essencia type ones anyway. Had a good look at one and a chat to Mike at brewers coop the other day. Would be nice to see them start making LMs, but oh well. Welcome along. Feel free to come around and try some not-essences, I'm in Remuera, although my stilling gear is with another member at the moment. Oh just a heads up, a 40% charge is a lot safer than a 50% charge

[marc83]

Good to see a brewshop still gettin a lil bit of praise
I use an essencia still(thanks kiwi ) detuning it for pot still mode when need be.I get a good neutral from it so im good,in the middle of doing a tried and true recipe with it,a BW at the mo.
Have seen these stills down at the LHBS and must say they look good.Thought they produced 90+% every time from what i have read about them.turbo washes i guess...

[dellae]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the comments.
This is a reflux still - from what I have seen on this site it is a CM type.
Cooling coil is mounted in the top of the head, It is packed with ceramic & copper saddles, copper & SS mesh, bits of copper water pipe.
I take out 50 - 80mils heads on each run just to be sure.
There are no tails to speak of, the last 400 - 500 mils I cut off, it is usually around 80% and has a slight odour to it, that goes in to the next cleaning run.
The rest 3-5 Ltr depending on the wash goes in the drum to age.

Hi Kiwi, I am in Ptoe, I visit Mike on a reasonably frequent basis (~~2 weeks) for supplys, a good bloke. Would like to catch up some time.

I have tried various Turbos and was not keen on the odour they produce, feeding them my fertiliser & Marmite reduces it considerably, and improves/reduces taste.
My standard wash is bakers yeast fed with Marmite, B-Vits, & my own designed Hydroponic fertiliser, Fiji Raw Sugar. (thank you Homedistiller.org for the ideas)
I have managed fairly consistent runs, not had any die so far.
Made the mistake on the 2nd wash of jumping the gun and running it before it had dropped below 1.0 and got the dreaded burn on the bottom of the urn(concealed element).

Now I leave it till its ~0.995 - 0.990 and let it sit for a week.
I do a quick first run in reflux with outlet temp at 65 - 68 C, which gives ~80%abv.
Then reduce with water to ~40%abv (1/2 water), add baking soda and do a slow run at 55 - 57 C outlet temperature.
Next batch I am going to try salt in the final run.

I do my washes in a 70 Ltr rubbish bin (60Ltr batches) (left corner of the photo) no airlock, just the lid clipped on.

I'd have more room in my shed if I had convinced the boy to take his car with him when he left home - after 25 yrs.

Cheers guys and happy brewing.

[kiwistiller]

I think I keep pissing off Mike by asking annoying questions about yeasts But yes a very good bloke and the smartest LHBS owner I've ever met.

Anyway, I wanted to ask, where are you picking up your sugar, and how much is it costing you? Been struggling to find cheap sugar lately.

[dellae]

Sugar - Find yourself a dairy run by someone from Fiji.
I pay $30 - $35 for a 25kg sack, depending on how much they think they can wring out of me.
For Chelsea, the lowest I ever paid was $36/25kg, again from a local dairy.
I am fortunate here in that there are a lot to choose from that sell it.
I negotiate bulk purchase of 50 - 75kg a time.

For yeasts - I had the best taste/aroma from starting with supermarket bread yeast and 1/2 sugar, then fed with 1/4 sugar until SG became static for a day then pitched EC1118
and sugar until balance used.
For these I limit max to 1.07 overall SG.

I have tried a number of different ones from Mike (Turbos/non Turbo) and they are more or less as most people report (smelly).
Pitching sugar at rate of 1/2, 1/4, 1/4 reduced smell of all turbos as opposed to all sugar at once.
I have also strung turbo packs out to 10kg by adding water to limit total SG to 1.09, sugar rate at 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/8 with reasonable results.
I even strung a Alcotec 48 out to 1.15 over 3 weeks as a test and result was passable.

These days I just stick to the bread yeast/EC1118 max SG 1.07.
I do 65 L at a time so it is not an issue waiting a week for it to clear.

[kiwistiller]

if you ever want to double your purchasing power, let me know

[dellae]

I think we have missed the end of the season now so prices are on there way up.
I bought a bit of stock a month ago to keep me going.
But I will check on prices for say 100 - 150 kg and see what they say next time I am down the shops.

I got a quote from Chelsea 5 months ago for 1000kg lots of Industrial grade - $32/25kg - so I use that as a guide for what I pay.

[gavin]

Hi there dellae (and everyone else). Exceptionally helpful and friendly forum!

I'm very much a novice distiller and was interesting to find your thread re the turbo500, I also just purchased one after assessing them as being the best of the shelf unit available atm for someone with no time to build.

As yet I have only put thru one turbo "classic" 6kg sugar wash which was cleared using turbo clear (impatient!).
It only went thru once as per owners manual/instructions and I discarded the 1st 100ml to be safe. The water outlet temp was maintained at 55-57deg and the spirit came out at 93-94% but with what I am assuming is a typical homebrew type smell (quite strong but pleasant/sweet to my nose).
After being watered down to 40% and then put thru the essencia filter (sold with the still as part of the package) it comes thru noticeably smoother to drink than the bottle of $40 per litre vodka we used for a benchmark, and almost as odorless (but not quite).

I was wondering about the merits of doing "cleaning" runs first in order to improve quality but wasn't sure about the best way to go about it with this design of still - or if it was even worth the hassle seeing as the spirit is already 94% from a single run and the filter sorts this out pretty good anyway?

After reading what others (and yourself) have written about the turbo yeasts it seems that with the turbo500 a more significant improvement in quality (in relation to time/effort) might be made by just switching to a wash like birdwatchers rather than bothering with cleaning runs? (would also value others opinions here)

I would like to ask if you have ever compared two finished products where one was made exactly as the t500 owners manual suggests, and the other made exactly the same except for the additional cleaning run as per your method ?

Also, did you unpack your column for the cleaning run?

How did you decide on what outlet temp to use for your cleaning run?

What was the merit of adding baking soda? and how much?


Some other info that may be of interest for others wanting to familiarize themselves with the T500 mode of operation:

The owners manual says discard the first 50ml, and then as long as you maintain the water outlet temp in the recommended range (55-60deg) the rest of the output (right until spirit stops coming out) will be "very high quality spirit with no noticeable tales".
However because I started reading about heads tails etc in these forums a little prior to my first run, I decided to do some very simple monitoring and caught the run in two main parts, and a third smaller part consisting of about the last 200mls before the spirit flow ceased altogether.

This is what I noticed:

A. The first main part of the run had much more of the sweet smell than the second and third parts - which smelt much cleaner.

B. The first and second part had the same 93-94% ABV whereas the third part had dropped a few percent to around 90%

My next run will be ready to go in a few days and although its only another turbo wash, for interests sake I'll be collecting in much smaller fractions to see if there if there is a clean heart in there somewhere that does not require filtering.

cheers and regards to all

gavin

[dellae]

Hi gavin,
Your reports on the output quality are consistent with what I have seen in various trials.
I did a comparison run first up of SS classic turbo as a guide with 6kg sugar, I did a single run at 55 - 57 C outlet and got very much like you describe.
From various reading the first cut can contain various esters with differing sweet smells, I got banana .

Since then I have done trials with Alcotec 48 (which I rate better than SS Classic), Code 6 Hyper Yeast (which I rate better again), Instant Yeast from the supermarket which I rate the best all round for smell during ferment and minimal after taste.

I have done with & without clearing agents and can't tell any difference in after taste (other than when I got impatient and didn't let it finish fermenting, dohh).

I did the cleaning run packed.
I have replaced some of the ceramic saddles with extra copper mesh to ensure removal of sulphides, I assume it works as the copper mesh only lasts about 6 - 8 runs before it is chewed out. I have copper saddles at the top of the column & SS pot scrubbers at the bottom to stop the saddles falling out the gaps.

Outlet temperature:
50 - 55C produces good quality (no odour) but takes approx 61/2 hrs for a 25L charge.
55 - 57C seems to leave a bit of odour if a turbo style was used.
55 - 57C run on Instant (bread) yeast seems ok with virtually no odour.
Above 60C on all yeast types leaves odour and off flavours.
55 - 57C for cleaning runs seems to be a good compromise for quality and speed.

I tend to chuck (burn) the first 100ml to be on the safe side.

Stripping runs then cleaning runs are definitely the way to go for full neutral.
I now strip at approx 70C, I run at 50C discarding the first 100mL, then crank up to 70C for the main run. (Boy does that stuff stink).
70C seemed to be the top end tradeoff between speed and quality.
I have a 20L plastic (type 2) drum I then put it in with approx 1/4 cup baking soda until it is full enough for a 50/50 charge with water to do a final run.
I have tried varying amounts of baking soda and settled on that as an amount that seems to offer improved smell.
Because it is so cheap I have not bothered testing any further.
I have read on the main site that some people use salt(non Iodised), I have been given 50kg of industrial grade so plan to try it on the next run to see if there is any difference.
Putting baking soda in the unstripped wash produces an ammonia taste in the final spirit which is hard to get rid of, so now I only put it in the stripped product to soak.

After the 2nd run I put the cleaned spirit in a plastic (type 2) container to air for a week or 2.
I used to put it straight into glass jars but found it did not age even after a month or more.
Even after a week on plastic it just seems to smell cleaner/smother.
I then cut it to 40% with boiled water and leave it sitting on plastic (PETE 1) until I am ready to use it.

From my trials of methods of fermentation: ( I only make neutral spirit for flavouring)
Bakers (Instant) yeast is best by far - don't exceed SG of 1.07
Feed the sugar in 2 - 3 stages, I have found 1/2, 1/4, 1/4 on subsequent days to work well, even when using turbos the taste & less smell are noticeable.
Slow is best - learn't that from years of beer brewing. 20 - 25C seems to produce the cleanest with reasonable speed. (15 - 18C @17 days is too slow)

I have tried rads All Bran and that definitely is a good one.
I have tested Marmite and it is ok but does have some carryover unless double distilled or run at 50 - 55C.
I am about to try my standard sugar+hydroponic fertiliser + Multi vitamins brew with Natural Bran (Homebrand, no additives) and see what that comes out like.
I have tried 1L strong black Dilmah tea (with and without leaves) on a number of ferments and that seems to keep the stink down but can't say I have noticed a difference in the final product.

I have modified the water circuit so I can have full flow thru the condenser and control bypass on the reflux coil, this makes it much easier to control the temperature.

[rad14701]

Greetings, gavin...

Please remove that unbroken dashed line in your post so we don't have to use horizontal scroll in order to read the post... It makes for very difficult reading...

As for running your rig, be sure to make proper cuts of foreshots, heads, hearts, and tails... It sounds like you're removing the foreshots but not making the other cuts... That nail polish remover smell is the heads... The wet cardboard smell at the end, where the %ABV drops, is the tails... Get a handle on those and you'll be left with some nice hearts to age and/or drink, and some heads and tails to save for a feints run...

If you haven't already done so, check out the New distiller reading Lounge for more great information...

Good luck...

[gavin]

Cheers dellae, thats brilliant. Lots of helpfull info there, thanks for that.

Forgot to mention I'm a NZer also!

I think for interests sakes I'll put this next turbo wash thru in one run but at the lower 50-50deg water outlet temp you tried and try to make cuts as Rad suggest. Then do my next few lots with stripping runs first also as you have done. (Not having to unpack the colum is a definate bonus considering the turbo500s fiddly packing proceedure).
After that I'll swap to a bakers yeast wash and repeat the same.

Can I just ask you to clarify re the baking soda - have I got it right that this is added to the 40% dilited spirit just prior to the cleaning run?


Also was interested to see what you have also written about the turbo yeasts stinking out the house. I had a ton of smell with my first turbo wash also and thought this must be normal. But the two I have on the go atm (one is now just finished) were/are almost odorless. The only difference was the first one (6kg) got to higher temps (28deg) for a few days because I underestimated the heat the yeast itself generated and put it on a gentle bottom heat before needing to do so.
The two second (8kg) ones after being pitched at the same 30deg maintained their own heat at 20-22deg for about 3 days and then were put on a gentle heat source (greenhouse insulated boiler unit) to maintain a 18-20deg for the next 3 days and then removed when airlock had almost stopped bubbling, to slowly wind down into the 16-14deg temp over the next two days. The one that has just finished gives a sg of .985 at 14deg temp and smells like a nice pleasant clean wine.

I'm wondering if some of the bad rap turbos are getting are due to them being rushed and kept a bit warm? If its a combination of heat and alcohol that kills yeast it seems to make sense to me to avoid higher temps and also let the temp gently tail off as the alcohol increases?



Thanks for the welcome Rad. Have removed the lines, sorry about that.

[kiwistiller]

Where are you at Gavin? There's always a whisky at my place for fellow distillers if you're around auckland somewhere.

[gavin]

Where are you at Gavin? There's always a whisky at my place for fellow distillers if you're around auckland somewhere.

Hi kiwi, many thanks for that. I'm down in PN though unfortunatly, but I would love the opportunity to have a natter (and sample!) at some stage.

[dellae]

Gavin
Baking Soda - I put it in the stripped spirit (after first run) (~80%) I strip with reflux, (many others strip in/with pot still), and leave it soaking until I do the final run.

Fermenting temperatures - yes I found that higher temps produced greater smell, I never heat unless the temp drops below 20C.
During the height of summer it is a bit of a problem keeping it cool even in the shed under the house.
Bakers yeast always has that fresh breadish smell and I haven't found much difference in temp range making too much difference.


Kiwistiller
- re sugar, FIJI Sugar are reporting issues with harvesting so I expect prices will remain high for some time. They have only been harvesting for a few weeks I think.
I checked during the week - 25kg = $39.

[kiwistiller]

That's a shame. my local supermarket has 5kg for 7.50 at the moment, best I've seen in a while.

[gavin]

Hi again guys,

Have been doing a lot of reading in order to get a handle on the best way to acheive a clean spirit without asking lots of questions about stuff that has already be covered in the main site and forums.

It would seem that Ethyl acetate is most likely the main thing I have battling against to date. So I have been trying to get an understanding of this. It would seem from reading the "distilling the wash" page that the is best way to deal with this is:

A, to avoid turbo yeasts and other high power ferments (because these tend to produce more acetic acid/fatty acids that then react with ethonol to create Ethyl acetate etc),

B, do a stripping run first

B, add baking soda after a stripping run to netralise ethyl acetate that comes thru with the first run.

It seems fairly accepted/agreed that its benificial (or at least in no way detrimental) to add the baking soda to the stripped spirit at least a week or so before putting it thru the still again for a cleaning run.

However one thing I'm still not clear about (because I don't have a good understanding of the exact chemistry) is whether it is better to dilute the stripped spirit back to 40% first before adding the baking soda or not?

As yet I havn't used baking soda at all ,and have only put thru 3 turbo washes (as single runs only) thru my turbo500. The spirit comes out at 94%, and by dividing a run into quite a few fractions it is possible to get an almost neutral smelling spirit in some of the later fractions while the preceeding fractions all have the strong fruity Ethyl acetate type smell. However one thing I have noticed is that even these almost odorless fractions imeadiatly develop the same strong fruity Ethyl acetate type smell as soon as they are dilluted back to 40% with water! (which is clean rain water).

I have resolved to doing stripping runs first in future and steering clear of turbo type yeasts/strong ferments in order to acheive a cleaner spirit. However my experiance to date/above has left me wondering if additonal Ethyl acetate/esters are actually formed upon this dillution back to 40% ? And this in turn has left me wondering where in the process it is most benificial to add the baking soda -

ie is it best to dilute the stripped spirit back to 40% before adding baking soda, then let it all sit for a week or so before the final run?

or is it best to add the baking soda to the undilluted spirit, let the 80% spirit/baking soda mix sit for a week or so, then dillute it back to 40% just prior to the final run?

Sorry for another drawn out post, but your help with this would be greatly appreciated.

gavin

[kiwistiller]

It's very hard to identify cuts and fractions without cutting the ABV down to 40, or even lower first. It was still there at the 90-odd ABV, you just couldn't pick it

I'm not sure about sodium bicarb at proof, but a handy hint - if you use sodium carbonate, not bicarbonate, you don't have to soak it for a few days. The goal is to correct the PH to a middle ground that won't produce any more ethyl acetate, but won't create ammonia either.

[gavin]

It's very hard to identify cuts and fractions without cutting the ABV down to 40, or even lower first. It was still there at the 90-odd ABV, you just couldn't pick it

ah ok, got that. Thats a bit of a releif, I was wondering if my water had some undesirables that were reacting with the ethonol.

I'm not sure about sodium bicarb at proof, but a handy hint - if you use sodium carbonate, not bicarbonate, you don't have to soak it for a few days. The goal is to correct the PH to a middle ground that won't produce any more ethyl acetate, but won't create ammonia either.

lol, thanks again, although not understanding the chemistry means that possibly creates more questions in my mind that it answers!

[dellae]

No problems gavin with the questions, that's why we all hang out here.

I cut the stripped back to ~~40% and add Bicarb, I tried adding it to plain stripped (~~80%) and even after a week it had done nothing to the smell.
I haven't tried carbonate at all yet as I have been trying others things.
Doing tasting at ~20% brings out any flavours much better than straight.

Some turbos are worse than others for the banana etc smell.
I found that the higher the SG the worse it was, however adding the sugar in 2-3 stages lowered the amount.

Now I just stick to rads style Bran wash with my own tweaks. (+ hydroponic fertiliser of my own concoction)
I found that not exceeding SG1.08 tends to prevent the nasties forming.
I use house brand 'Natural Bran' or 'Oat Bran'.

On the last lot of ferments (2 x 55 L) I did trials of LARGE quantities of Vit B, Multi V, Vit C additions.
I did single runs at ~60 - 70C outlet temp (I wanted to keep a small amount of the bran flavour).
I have settled on single runs at 63C (~90%).

Over 4 day ferments I added various amounts of each of the Vitamin pill types.
I am currently doing another 55L batch to confirm what I currently think are good levels of pills.
10'000mg Vit C, 10 x multi Vit pills, 5 x B vit Pills.

I found doing this I don't need to double run and even at 63C I am getting good flavour out.
I stuck to using my standard test yeast (Code 6 Hyper Yeast) to ensure I had a true base line test.
It was sweet smelling thruout the ferments.
I cut to ~20% to taste test and there was just a hint of the Bran.
I have not used any bi-carb at all on these runs as I wanted to see what my super vitamin trials did.
I checked on the drum of 88% tonite that is coming up to a week airing and she is as good as any other I have run.

After this run if the tests confirm that super vit additions are OK I will revert to normal bread yeast form the supermarket and trial again, supposedly it should be even better.

[rad14701]

If the distilled spirits are nasty you can let them rest on bicarb for two weeks, rack, and redistill... IIRC the amount of bicarb is 1 Tbsp per liter... The storage container should remain unsealed... I would suggest doing this before attempting to carbon filter which I consider to be the last resort...

[gavin]

No problems gavin with the questions, that's why we all hang out here.

I cut the stripped back to ~~40% and add Bicarb, I tried adding it to plain stripped (~~80%) and even after a week it had done nothing to the smell.
I haven't tried carbonate at all yet as I have been trying others things.
Doing tasting at ~20% brings out any flavours much better than straight.

Some turbos are worse than others for the banana etc smell.
I found that the higher the SG the worse it was, however adding the sugar in 2-3 stages lowered the amount.

Now I just stick to rads style Bran wash with my own tweaks. (+ hydroponic fertiliser of my own concoction)
I found that not exceeding SG1.08 tends to prevent the nasties forming.
I use house brand 'Natural Bran' or 'Oat Bran'.

On the last lot of ferments (2 x 55 L) I did trials of LARGE quantities of Vit B, Multi V, Vit C additions.
I did single runs at ~60 - 70C outlet temp (I wanted to keep a small amount of the bran flavour).
I have settled on single runs at 63C (~90%).

Over 4 day ferments I added various amounts of each of the Vitamin pill types.
I am currently doing another 55L batch to confirm what I currently think are good levels of pills.
10'000mg Vit C, 10 x multi Vit pills, 5 x B vit Pills.

I found doing this I don't need to double run and even at 63C I am getting good flavour out.
I stuck to using my standard test yeast (Code 6 Hyper Yeast) to ensure I had a true base line test.
It was sweet smelling thruout the ferments.
I cut to ~20% to taste test and there was just a hint of the Bran.
I have not used any bi-carb at all on these runs as I wanted to see what my super vitamin trials did.
I checked on the drum of 88% tonite that is coming up to a week airing and she is as good as any other I have run.

After this run if the tests confirm that super vit additions are OK I will revert to normal bread yeast form the supermarket and trial again, supposedly it should be even better.

Cheers for all that Dellae,

I also noticed the baking soda doesn't seem to do much if anything to undiluted spirit, and then I read somewhere baking soda is only slightly soluble in ethanol.
So diluting the ethanol first seemed to make sense to me. But I was a little confused by the way my seemingly odorless spirit developed lots of odor when water was added, and so thought I better seek confirmation about this first.

I currently have a brew of the birdwatchers type suger wash almost fermented, and I plan to run that thru exactly the same as the previous turbos just to get a true comparison between the two. After that I may try one of the rads style bran wash as you reccomend and see what works best for me, and then decide where to go from there.

Your work with the vitimins sounds very promising though. Especially if you are getting that sort of cleaness from single quite fast runs. I'd be interested to keep in touch about that.

BTW My occupation is growing indoor plants, we have our own wholesale nursery, so I always have a range of commercial high grade scotts/peters etc type soluble plant foods etc on hand. If you ever want to try any of these without having to commit to large volumes let me know, I could easily send you some.

Meantime some more questions for you (grin)

Whats the reason you personally use a bran brew over a suger one?

Whats the cost comparison between the two like?

What would you consider is best out of bran or sugar washes for making the cleanest neuteral spirit? (this is my own objective at this stage)

What was the idea of retaining some of the bran taste - what are you making with that?

cheers

gavin

[gavin]

If the distilled spirits are nasty you can let them rest on bicarb for two weeks, rack, and redistill... IIRC the amount of bicarb is 1 Tbsp per liter... The storage container should remain unsealed... I would suggest doing this before attempting to carbon filter which I consider to be the last resort...

Cheers rad!

[dellae]

The bran brew seems to be a cleaner producer, all other things being equal.

I have done dozens of sugar washes with/without additives (marmite and suchlike) and it doesn't seem to take much to get off tastes coming thru the sugars, this though is generally taken care of with a slow run @50 - 55C.
I plan to try wheatgerm at some stage but I fully expect that it will be just as good as the bran. It works well in my bread so must be good for hooch.

Cost difference is just the bran etc. Homebrand natrual bran is $1.72/500g at the supermarket so it is not a great increase on a 55L ferment.
I have tried Kellogg All Bran as per rads recipie and it works fine, but at ~$6 for 655g it is way expensive.

For neutral I would say any of the Tried & True sugar based washes are fine.
As long as the ferment is clean, then a low slow run will clean them out fine.
I was doing double runs when using Alcotec 48 @SG1.11 (300L of trials), but I since stopped doing that as the low SG plain sugar washes come out good as on a single run.

I tried leaving a bit of the ferment taste as a trial to take some of the pure ethanol harsh taste off the final spirit.
After a week of airing I taste tested tonite and the bran hint is gone and it tastes a lot smother.
For doing my taste tests I cut with boiled water to ensure I only get the spirit flavour coming thru.

I make a wide range of flavoured spirits, if I don't like them my boy and his mates make a good job of disposing of them.

The upside to being able to do faster runs (4 hours instead of 6) is the saving in power (NZ$1) goes someway to the additional cost of all those vitamin tablets (~$3 - $4).

I did a test this week, I stopped the vitamin additions for a day after day 2 and the ferment slowed to a crawl.
Added 6 pills and it was away again within a few hours.
Wash temp is ~15 - 18C in this cool weather, I have the drum sitting on a 30watt heater pad to help out.

Adding all the pills to the initial charge does not work either, splitting the dose up and adding over the 4 days works much better.
It would appear that the yeast do in fact behave exactly just like plants out in the sunshine and all the same rules as too "a little bit often" works just the same.

The fertiliser I use is my formulation from when I had a horticulture business and supplied commercial hydroponic growers.
It consists of Calcium Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, Mono Ammonium Phosphate, Magnesium Sulphate, Mono Potassium Phosphate, and the full range of trace elements in chelate form.
I still have a bit of a stock left from when I sold the business so hopefully it will last me a year or 2 yet.

[gavin]

I'm not sure about sodium bicarb at proof, but a handy hint - if you use sodium carbonate, not bicarbonate, you don't have to soak it for a few days. The goal is to correct the PH to a middle ground that won't produce any more ethyl acetate, but won't create ammonia either.

Hi kiwi,

Could you expand on this a little please?

Does this mean that in practical terms you would add just enough sodium carbonate to acheive a PH of 7 in the total spirit/water mix that is destined for re-distilling ?

thanks (in advance) grin

[kiwistiller]

think that's the jist of it, yes - I need to get back my copy of Riku's book from a mate, it's my reference for low wines treatment. I'll confirm for you when I've looked it up.

[gavin]

think that's the jist of it, yes - I need to get back my copy of Riku's book from a mate, it's my reference for low wines treatment. I'll confirm for you when I've looked it up.

Cheers kiwi!