My stupidest idea ever?

[father william]

I was poking around on the net just now researching how to make a meat smoker/grill out of an old 55 gallon steel barrel. Most people start with a food grade barrel, then light a fire inside it to burn out the inner coating, which usually makes the outer paint flake off as well. After grinding with a wire brush wheel inside and out they end up with bright shiny steel all around.

Since it's not stainless, I wouldn't want to use it as a still. Stainless barrels are a lot of money though.

Then it hit me. What if I electroplated a layer of copper onto the inside surface of the drum and the removable lid? Electroplating copper onto steel is pretty low-tech, but would it last? Especially given the heat involved in distillation.

Please tell me this is an incredibly stupid idea that will never work so I can stop thinking about it. I know that a 55 gallon still is considered too big to be a hobbyist still. I'm just thinking outside the box at the moment, and there are smaller steel barrels available that might work as well.

[rednose]

You will have problems to reach the corners (edge might be a better word) of the bottom of the drum FW.

[HookLine]

Or you could just use stainless kegs.

[rad14701]

That's an incredibly stupid idea...

Just kidding... It's an incredibly bad idea...

The time, effort, and expense, of attempting to get a good layer of copper onto a steel drum simply isn't worth the effort... It would take a shitload of scrap copper to line a drum with a thick enough layer to be worthwhile... It would be about as successful as trying to tin it with 25 pounds of lead free solder... No, don't try that idea either...

[father william]

You will have problems to reach the corners (edge might be a better word) of the bottom of the drum FW.

I assume you mean getting in there with the grinder wheel. The standard 55 gallon barrel is about 22" wide and 35" deep, so getting one shoulder and an arm into it shouldn't be too hard, especially if the electric grinder I use has some length to it. I wouldn't try this with a barrel that didn't have the removable lid and clamp ring, obviously.

I've seen several pictures of people's grills during the construction process that are really well lit and they look absolutely spotless inside, all the way down to the bottom.

I'm imagining filling the barrel to the rim with copper sulfate solution and using the entire barrel as the cathode in the circuit, then doing the lid in some sort of separate container. Or maybe just taking it to a commercial plating company, although why I would want a copper plated 55 gallon barrel might raise some eyebrows. They would probably dip the entire unit in a tank and I'd have copper on the outside too. That'd be cool, but probably put the price right back up at the stainless barrel cost or beyond.

[father william]

The time, effort, and expense, of attempting to get a good layer of copper onto a steel drum simply isn't worth the effort... It would take a shitload of scrap copper to line a drum with a thick enough layer to be worthwhile...

Copper spot price right now is around $3.25 per lb., and I have boxes and boxes of copper wire already from an auction purchase years ago, so no additional cost for me there. Copper wire is a very pure source of copper, once the insulation is removed.

The steel drum probably weighs about 35 lbs. I don't think it would take more than a couple of pounds of copper to give the inside a good coating. All it would require is enough of a coating that the acids in the wash can't attack the steel, or leach bad flavor out of the steel. It wouldn't take a quarter inch of copper plating IMO, just a few layers of copper atoms to provide a barrier.

Still might be a really stupid idea, but I don't think it would cost much to try and fail. Just a lot of elbow grease and hassle.

[rednose]

No, that's not the problem FW.

It's that the copper will be much less or almost nothing in the very edge.

I know about that problem cause 35 years ago, during my study, I had to make some practice in that area.

[solaryellow]

Interesting thought. Seems like more effort than it is worth though. Any idea what it would cost to do the work or have the work done?



I haven't used my horizontal offset nor my ECB smokers since building my UDS last summer. You can't beat them for fuel efficiency and simple temp control.

This was a 55 gal motor oil drum when I started.



After burning it out with three pallets, I scrubbed it down with degreaser and washed it out before starting my seasoning run.



Both racks in place.



Cheap Weber knock off lid fit into place with temp gauge after a fresh coat of bbq paint.



Enjoy the Q these simple contraptions can make!













Even jerky.

[rednose]

Hey, that's not fair, I'm in diet and you post those yummy pics.

[solaryellow]

Hey, that's not fair, I'm in diet and you post those yummy pics.

My deepest sympathies.

[father william]

No, that's not the problem FW.

It's that the copper will be much less or almost nothing in the very edge.

I know about that problem cause 35 years ago, during my study, I had to make some practice in that area.

What if I had a circular copper anode that I suspended just above the bottom of the drum, that was just an inch or so less in diameter than the I.D. of the drum, and was just an inch or so above the bottom of the barrel?

Also, if I attach the negative power supply connector down at the bottom of the barrel, won't the copper be attracted there?

Starting to sound like more work that it's worth. Thanks for all the input.

[myles]

and I have boxes and boxes of copper wire already from an auction purchase years ago, so no additional cost for me there.

Might be easier in the long run to take the copper wire and sell it at the scrappy.
Use the cash to buy some thin copper sheet, thinner than you would normally use for a still and make a slip in copper liner. The oil drum can provide the strength, the copper liner the water tight inner surface.

Alternatively make your thin copper container a bit smaller than the drum, and fill the space between the two with insulation, expanding foam perhaps - AFTER you have fitted all your connections through the drum.

That oil drum would make a nice rigid protection for a lightweight walled copper still.

[therealraycharles]

and I have boxes and boxes of copper wire already from an auction purchase years ago, so no additional cost for me there.

Might be easier in the long run to take the copper wire and sell it at the scrappy.
Use the cash to buy some thin copper sheet, thinner than you would normally use for a still and make a slip in copper liner. The oil drum can provide the strength, the copper liner the water tight inner surface.

Alternatively make your thin copper container a bit smaller than the drum, and fill the space between the two with insulation, expanding foam perhaps - AFTER you have fitted all your connections through the drum.

That oil drum would make a nice rigid protection for a lightweight walled copper still.

This is probably the best way to go, imo. I don't think the plating will withstand the wear of you scrubbing it out every time after a run.

[father william]

This is probably the best way to go, imo. I don't think the plating will withstand the wear of you scrubbing it out every time after a run.

Think about pieces of kitchenware that are silver plated. Done correctly, it's on there pretty darn good. Doesn't flake off easily, you'd have to sand it hard to get it off. I'd rinse my barrel out more than scrub it out since grain wouldn't go in it in the first place.

The more I read on the net about it the more likely I think it is to work, not less. That doesn't necessarily mean I'll do it, but I might do a test case on some sort of non-stainless steel trash can the size of a 5 or 10 gallon stock pot as a proof of concept.

A lot of people who nerd out on their firearms do nickel plating on certain parts, and they generally lay down a layer of copper to fill in the little scratches, then electroplate the nickel on top of that, and it's on there for keeps if it's done right. Gun parts are generally high carbon, non-stainless steel, and the copper grabs right onto them good and tight.

Got to thinking more about what Joe wrote about the trouble of getting the copper to attach down at the base of the barrel. Since cosmetics wouldn't figure into this, and I don't really care if one part of the barrel has more copper plated on it than another part as long as the entire surface is covered sufficiently, I thought of a way that might get copper into every corner.

I'd fill just 4 or 5" of the bottom of the barrel with the electroplating solution, create an anode out of stripped, solid core copper wire shaped like a circular barbecue grill, and just plate the bottom of the barrel and the lowest 4 inches. When that was covered, I'd shut things down, pull out the anode, pour sand or pea gravel into the barrel to raise the solution up to the next level, put the anode back in and do the next ring. It'd take a while, but I don't see why I couldn't get a good stong coating eventually.

Also, building an inner barrel out of copper sheet would cost a LOT more than electroplating a pound or two of copper onto the inner surface, and would definitely test my feeble fabrication skills. Allowing electricity and chemistry to do the work appeals to me a lot more if it's possible.

[Samohon]

Man I feel hungry after that....

Yummy pics though...

[ScottishBoy]

Im drooling...A chinese pork roast in that would be like heaven...

[rednose]

Man I feel hungry after that....

Yummy pics though...

Why do you think I'm coming back to this thread every some hours, the pics are so yummy.

We have a big stone made smoker with SS doors, cold and hot smoking, I think I have to take the time next weekend to fire it and forget a moment about the diet.

Joe

[MuleKicker]

Copper wire is a very pure source of copper, once the insulation is removed.

True.....Just dont be the guy that burns it off. You just have dirty copper then. If you got the stuff to do it, with no real cost involved. I say give it a try. Atleast you'll satisfy the curriousity... And maybe just maybe, you'll be able to come back with an "I told ya so"

[father william]

Copper wire is a very pure source of copper, once the insulation is removed.

True.....Just dont be the guy that burns it off. You just have dirty copper then. If you got the stuff to do it, with no real cost involved. I say give it a try. Atleast you'll satisfy the curriousity... And maybe just maybe, you'll be able to come back with an "I told ya so"

I've already got a pretty good system for stripping stranded copper wire, separating the strands and scrunching them into column scrubbies on the cheap. They work great.

Also got to thinking that rather than buying a once-used food grade barrel and burning out the inner coating, I could just bite the bullet and buy a new unlined steel barrel and not have to hassle with the cleaning. Get virgin steel on the inside, not have to worry about repainting the outside.

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/mater ... -open-head

$61 for an unlined 30 gallon, probably the perfect size for me. Shipping might be a bear, if I can find one locally at that price with no shipping I think I'd bite the bullet and try it. Then try my hand at building a 55 gallon rocket stove to wrap around it for heating.

[therealraycharles]

Honestly I'd love to see you try this, because I'm interested to know if it would work.

One request though, can you take photos during the process, and not just finished? I'd be interested see the uniformity of the deposits.

[rad14701]

I think I'd try it with something a bit smaller, like a large coffee can, before wasting time and effort on a 55 gallon drum... I think it would take more than one or two pounds of copper to plate a drum adequately...

[still crazy]

Go to a local swimming pool guy.
See if he has any stainless steel filters that he has replaced for customers.
They usually have some 2" + holes in them for fitting attachment too.
I got a nice one from a friend who gets them all the time.
Its collecting weeds right now but when time allows it will be put so some use.
Boiler, fermenter, ....... now you got the smoker idea bouncing ......

[father william]

After doing more research, it appears copper plating the inside of a steel drum, while possible, is too complicated for me to achieve as a hobbyist.

The problem is that copper cannot be plated directly onto ferrous metals in one step without using copper cyanide electrolyte. The plating shops do this routinely but they're set up to do so, and can actually acquire the cyanide. An acidic copper electrolyte will oxidize the steel as it plates, so a good solid plating cannot be laid down. A copper sulphate electrolyte can plate copper onto ferrous metal without using electricity, but it's not a strong plating and won't stand up to the heat of a still. I could plate zinc onto steel in one step, but obviously don't want a zinc still.

One can plate nickel onto steel, then plate copper on top of that (the reverse of what I thought I read that the gun plating guys do), using an acidic copper electrolyte (copper sulphate and sulphuric acid dissolved in water). With that amount of work, and having to use two different electrolyte solutions and quickly emptying the drum of the first electrolyte and adding the second before the nickel oxidizes, I'm throwing in the towel.

Luckily I didn't spend a dime on it, just some time. Looks like back to plan B, putting an element in a beer keg, or finding a surplus stainless barrel. Oh well, live and learn.