EC-1118 Questions

[NewGuy]

Hey all,
Have been using turbos, but a think it's time to grow up and use the good stuff, but a few questions, I found some info on using 1118, but still have confusion.

1) I found Lalvin EC-1118 in 5gm packages (bout the size of a condom wrapper ) and it says on the bottom to refrigerate them, but my local shopkeep just keeps them on the shelf at room temp. Is this OK or should I be looking for a new place?

2) I have been reading about nutrients........ DAP, or tomato paste, or both; citric acid for city water how bout well water with no chlorine; epsom salts? Overwhelmed. I'm on a rum kick right now, so with a molasses wash, would just tomato paste be sufficient? There is alot of info around, but some contradicts others, help please.

Thanks guys.

[MuleKicker]

1) I found Lalvin EC-1118 in 5gm packages (bout the size of a condom wrapper ) and it says on the bottom to refrigerate them, but my local shopkeep just keeps them on the shelf at room temp. Is this OK or should I be looking for a new place?

I keep mine at room temp. Just dont overheat them and i think you will be fine, i have never had a problem. Isnt there an expiration date on those packages? (the yeast, not the condoms )

2) I have been reading about nutrients........ DAP, or tomato paste, or both; citric acid for city water how bout well water with no chlorine; epsom salts? Overwhelmed. I'm on a rum kick right now, so with a molasses wash, would just tomato paste be sufficient? There is alot of info around, but some contradicts others, help please.

I dont think you want to go throwing tomato paste into a rum wash. I may be wrong, but I think the molases has nutrients you need. LWTCS is the rum god, he will be along to set you strait.

[NewGuy]

Thanks Kicker-
Yeah there is an expiration date on them and they are OK as far as that goes. I'll leave them up in the cabinet. Thanks Man.

[LWTCS]

Stop it Mule. Just not true.. I will admit to only ever making rum for a good long while now.

Molassas has enough nutes to get you through the ferment. Question is are you looking to speed through or do you have the patience to tolerate a bit longer ferment time?

More drankin stock makes it easier to cope.

I can wait,,, as my stock is built up................Built up enought to drink from, but ain't squat when it comes to aging a more bulky amount.

Its all a work in progress. And i do not fore see this cycle stopping any time soon.

Prolly got another year to conduct myself before the missus can tolerate the next level of obsession

[NewGuy]

You guys are the best......

I would like to think I have the patience, I'll usually give a wash a week, which is plenty for the turbos I've been using.

So if I make my molasses wash as usual and pitch the 1118 in with nothing else it will go ahead?

thats cool, I was all freaked out about not finishing or stalling and not knowing what the heck to do.

[scotty]

Use a starter bottle to get that stuff going strong. 1 liter wash + 1 liter of water---aerate for 15 minutes. pitch 2 pkts 1118- let work for 3.5 hours before pitching. this covers lag time and allows yeast to multiply a few times in addition to conditioning it for the type of wash.

this is an original method---okok i stole the method from the parent site-- it really gets my stuff fermentin well.

Ive been using 1118 for a few years on wine and now lately on irish whiskey and sugar washes. It has always kept well on the shelf. The room is cool in winter and ac in the summer.

The last sugar wash i did was 14% im going to try 16% this week. It says it will do 18%-- well maybe ill try that some time but dont know why i want to.

I ferment slow and make sure the nutrients are there and not fed too much too soon.
Ive been using the 3 separate feedings durind the aerobic stage. this seems to be working well.

Another original idea that i took from the parent site.

[The Baker]

The 'best before' date applies more to the user than to the condom.

The yeast will keep okay out of the fridge but it will keep longer refrigerated.

[MuleKicker]

If your keeping yeast that long, you aint doin enough stillin.

[Dnderhead]

Iv got some yeast that has expiration date of 198? well its sort of wore off so cat see it all.
and it still kicks off a ferment.

the trick? if it is dried yeast keep it dry.if it can absorb moister the it will deteriorate.

[The Baker]

If your keeping yeast that long, you aint doin enough stillin.

and if you are keeping the condoms that long....

oh, never mind.

[rad14701]

scotty, simply because the documentation states that the yeast "can" be pushed as high as 18% that doesn't mean you "should"... If you are looking to make clean spirits the only way to do so is to keep the target %ABV of the wash down in the 14% maximum range... This holds true for any yeast... The yeast colony simply cannot stay healthy in a high concentration of alcohol and will start producing off tastes and smells as it gets stressed and the colony begins to die off... Think of it as the yeast colony getting drunk and puking and shitting its guts out into your wash... Once that happens you'll need to resort to using clearing agents, carbon filtering, and perhaps multiple distillations to remove the toxins produced by the stressed yeast...

Do what you want, but most here would recommend avoiding the greed factor and just concentrate on making quality spirits rather than thinking about quantity...

[scotty]

I had good luck with my 14% wash and will use it again--i will however try the 16% wash this trip. 1118 Usually does the job and even higher if one cares to spoon feed it. i made some over 20 a couple of years ago as a joke for a friend who liked sweet wine.

Again just seeing how it goes. thanks for the input though.

[scotty]

Im just going to stick wit the 14% wash--it works--

[NewGuy]

So I made my wash, much like the ones i was using the turbos on, it's been about 16 days since i added the ec-1118 yeast and still going, which is no problem for me patience-wise (maybe a little but i'll deal ) but i notice the smell is kinda different from what i'm used to.

what i am used to with the turbos (or with my last few ferments) is a sweet, carbonated, molasses-wine-soda smell. This time with the 1118 it's more of a rotting molasses/baby poop smell, still with the carbonated soda smell, but not as sweet - Is this normal, is it maybe infected? i cleaned the fermentor with a mild bleach/water mix like i always do. am i worried for nothing?

it is still buubling, only slightly less than when it started, room has been around 67.

the wash is-
1/2 gal baking molasses (not blackstrap)
2.5 Lbs sugar (regular white granulated)
1.5 Lbs light brown sugar (left over from the wife's christmas cookies - normally don't use)
water to 5.5 gallons total
init SG- 1.07 (9.5%)
it's at 1.025 now so i know it's not done.

??

[rad14701]

NewGuy, your biggest problem is most likely the low wash temperature... Most yeasts perform best when the wash is kept between 75F - 85F... And most slow significantly when the temperature drops below 70F... Your 9.5% potential ABV wash should have been done in under a week... The longer it languishes with un-fermented sugars, and minimal CO2 layer protection, the more likely it is to become infected...

While the manufacturer states optimal operating temperature to be between 15C - 25C (59F - 77F) real world use has proven that it performs better at the same temperatures as other yeasts...

You may have something funky going on there...

[NewGuy]

So I've made two more washes, and used the 1118, first time I set the room temperature at 72, still same thing long time and bad smell, dumped it, clean bucket and soaked in water-bleach mix, second one I wrapped some heat tracing wire around the bottom of the bucket and it held at 85 perfectly. It's been almost 6 days and it's starting to smell bad, WTF? The second is still going, and starting to slow down, but if the smell gets any worse, I'm will dump it.


1/2 Gal "fancy" baking molasses
3.5 LBS sugar
6 Gal total
1.07 I.G.
EC-1118 added with wash at 85 Deg

[Dnderhead]

first if you are using bleach to clean with make sure it is well rinsed and air dryed.
(upside down) some yeast produce so2 this is a sulphur smell it should go away.
this happens more in a closed fermenter.also hot or low PH can cause off smells.
if your not using nutrients id saggiest a small amount of DAP.
Iv had some ferments have good smells then smell bad then go back to good again.
so give it time.wine often does this.

[rowdybowdy]

So I've made two more washes, and used the 1118, first time I set the room temperature at 72, still same thing long time and bad smell, dumped it, clean bucket and soaked in water-bleach mix, second one I wrapped some heat tracing wire around the bottom of the bucket and it held at 85 perfectly. It's been almost 6 days and it's starting to smell bad, WTF? The second is still going, and starting to slow down, but if the smell gets any worse, I'm will dump it.


1/2 Gal "fancy" baking molasses
3.5 LBS sugar
6 Gal total
1.07 I.G.
EC-1118 added with wash at 85 Deg

I would start with a more thorough sanitation operation
Sanitize with star san... Mix it in a spray bottle keeps forever to sanitize just spray everything down ( if its clean) saves sanitizer... Spray everything Star san only needs 20 seconds contact time to sanitize.

2nd personally i think your fermentation temperatures are way to high the higher the temperature the higher the chance of esters and other compounds to develop due to the high temperatures (I brew lots of beer) so fermentation is a really really important process in brewing (the most important).

If its fermenting its not your yeast... some other step in the process...

Checking the "fertility" of the yeast is easy using a yeast starter with a mini wash and and a stir plate and flask you will be able to tell if the yeast is viable before you introduce it to your wash, and it also ups the cell counts to take on the large sugar concentration in the wash.

My two cents

[rubber duck]

I wouldn't dump it, let it finish up and settle out then run it. Just because it smells a little off right now doesn't mean it won't be good once it's been distilled.

[NewGuy]

Thanks Fellas
I added a teaspoon of tomato paste and gave it a good shake, it's starting to smell better already- i'll add that to my normal mix.
The higher temp seems to be helping, not hurting. They are bubbling alot more vigorously than the first one without turbo- that was still bubbling after 3 weeks, and smelly as all hell.
We'll see how this one stills- thanks again-

[stillcyco]

Also, along with the suggestion of a little DAP, a pinch of epsom salts and a crushed multi vitamin can help things greatly. Tomato paste can add flavor, whereas just some straight nutes can do the trick nicely, without any extra flavors coming along for the ride. You might also want to boil up some bakers yeast to add as a nutrient, this provides protein and various trace nutrients.

I've never had issues with temps or sanitation. I clean my 20 gallon fermenters (rubbermaid trash cans) every few times, otherwise I just dump in more wash and a bit more yeast and off it goes. I've had ants, dead bugs of all sorts in my washes and never had an infection. I ferment in the mid 60's temp wise, and my 15-20 gal washes finish in 4-5 days. I mostly use EC-1118, sometimes bakers yeast.

My recipe for sugar wash is easy:

15 gallons tap water
30 lbs white sugar
1 12oz jar grandmas molasses
6 crushed multi vitamins
10 tsp DAP
2-3 tsp citric acid
2-3 pinches of epsom salts
1 cup yeast boiled for 1 hour (to kill it)
2 packets EC-1118

Ferments and clears in 4-7 days at any temp I've tried, at nights its down in the 40's-50's, days 60's-70's. I would also consider my fermenting conditions quite unsanitary, compared to when I brew beer. Never had off smells or flavors, never had an infection. Give the yeast all they need to get going, and they'll do the job. Starve em or nutritionally deprive em, not so good. Bacterial infections have only ever been an issue for me with long secondary ferments with beer. Gotta be super clean there.

[leiothrix]

What is the pH & hardness of your water? The citric acid should only be added if you have hard water.

If you have soft water, add some calcium carbonate instead.

The point of both ingredients is to keep the pH at a level where the yeast are happy. Add citric acid to soft water and pH drops through the floor, and the yeasties get stressed and don't work so good)


(OT: Why do i keep typing citrix instead of citric? bloody xenapp )

[Usge]

Just started a new UJSM type wash with 5lbs white dent ground to coarse meal, 2lbs malted corn, 7lbs sugar and used EC-1118 and it smells "great". I've been using EC-1118 for a while now for all my corn based ferments. Compared to WD Whiskey Yeast with AG, it tends to start slower (making a good starter as mentioned could help with that), and it ferments cleaner. It smells less sour and seems to be more neutral, less "estery"/fruity, and produces less sharpness in heads. That tends to let more of the natural flavor of whatever I'm making (corn) come through. I like it a lot. EC-1118 seems to be a "very" virulent yeast. It will pretty much take over from any other yeast source and eventually dominate it. It ferments "fast" once it get going but, it does seem to have a slow start up time..which can be a window for bacteria to take hold and squelch it. I've found I have to be careful with this. After it gets a clean start..it really does a great job, doesn't stress easy (is very forgiving).

The recommended (from Lalvin) way to rehydrate this yeast is:

REHYDRATION
Dissolve the (5gram packet of ) dry yeast in 50 mL (2 oz) of warm NOT HOT water (40°- 43°C /104°-109°F).
Let stand 15 minutes without stirring,
then stir well to suspend all the yeast.
Add to previously sulfited must. (this is for wine. If you are making a starter, add it to your starter of wash/mash. Otherwise, pitch it into your fermenter)
(The yeast should not be kept in the rehydration medium longer than recommended.)

The last bit is important. Don't leave it in the water solution more than 15mins. Either pitch into a starter of wash/etc..or pitch it in your fermenter.
Personally, I've found making starter unnecessary so long as you hydrate the yeast properly. But, if after hydrating you still think its starting too slow...you can make a
big starter as suggested to really get it moving fast.

[Dnderhead]

To add to Usge post, if you wash that has preservatives using a starter can sometimes
can git it going,as some preservatives act as "birth control" and prevent yeast from
multiplying.adding a large starter gits it over this "hump".