Using refrigerant to cool condenser

[Tulsamoonshine]

Has anyone tried use refrigerant to cool their still. I'm
and Hvacr contractor and I was thinking of running 408a though two the two condenser using a txv to meter the refrigerant or building a mini water chiller using fourshot and amonia and the refrigerant. So think I could get a way with it being less then 5gals bucket size and never worry about water usage again. What's you guys thought on it. That could cool a 6" flute no problem.

[rad14701]

Tulsamoonshine, setting things up as a water chiller might be a bit much considering how much heat you would be trying to extract... Add to that the heat, and electric consumption, it will take to cool the water, and it just wouldn't be an efficient way of going about an otherwise simple process... Just use a larger bulk tank and re-use... Think KISS concept...

[NcHooch]

Last summer I was thinkin about a way to chill my water using either a small window AC unit, or a dehumidifier....simply dunk the coolin coil in your water tank.
What made me give up on the idea was I had no way to get rid of the heat...it'd likely be 110 degrees in that room of the barn in short order.
But I've recently been thinkin about this again because I haven't ran my still since November on account of it's been so cold this winter, that extra heat would be welcome out there.

Any ideas on the BTU requirement Tulsa?

NChooch

[DAveCuds]

Yeah i was thinking about using a fridge and freezer. Pump water from the tank in the fridge and wound copper going through the freezer, so the water coming off the head condenser would be run through the freezer then drop down into the tank below. My last still i was using a 100l tank of water and after a 4 hr run the water was getting quite hot. Mind you the ambient temp was about 27* so if im doing a 50l batch of low wines thats going quite a long run no? Fridges are quite energy efficient and i can offset that by the fact that I'm not wasting 10's of liters every time i distill....which is going to be a lot.

Has anyone measured how much water the use/waste on a 50l run of low wines?? I know it's going to be different depending on the still but i am curious to know.Then i could weigh up the costs of each method and figure out which is best.

[rad14701]

Has anyone measured how much water the use/waste on a 50l run of low wines?? I know it's going to be different depending on the still but i am curious to know.Then i could weigh up the costs of each method and figure out which is best.

If you are running more than 1 liter per minute of water then you are most likely using more than needed... My flow rate is usually in the 400ml - 600ml per minute range running in reflux mode and only slightly more, perhaps 750ml per minute, in stripping mode... So, essentially, minutes = liters if you're not recirculating, as a rough estimate...

[theholymackerel]

All the more reason to ditch yer leibig, and use a coil in a bucket/barrel.

No runnin' water required, no chems required (refriderant), no electricity required.

ALSO, no way for someone to turn off yer water, and at the end of yer run ya have a large container of hot water to clean up with.

[loneswinger]

If you are running a vacuum still I could see a benefit, otherwise no. There is no reason to have your cooling water colder than room temp. Since refrigerators are not 100% efficient, you would have to dump off even more heat and use up more energy than just cooling the output water directly. With my longer Liebig, I can get away with using a little bit under 1 L/min (15 gal/hour) to knock down 3kW. The input water is about 16 C, and the output is about 75 C, whatever method you use to cool it from there is up to you but the simpler the better.

Also, any non-farmer who purchases anhydrous ammonia for home use is potentially opening themselves up for inspection. The fact that you show the officer that you are using it as part of a process to make liquor and not meth will not prevent you from getting busted.

Best not raise unnecessary suspicion,

-Loneswinger

[corncooker69]

I personally am a big fan of a flake barrel and a worm.

My setup is a 15.5 gallon boiler= old beer keg so 12 gallons of wash.

pot still head .

30 gallon plastic drum for a flake barrel with 50' of coiled 1/2 inch copper tubing.

In hot weather I plan on using a second 15 gallon barrel with ice water in it plumbed to the first with a pump to recirculate the water to keep the temp. down if needed.

Don't even have to change the water that often unless you want to. Just add a little chlorine bleach to keep out the nastys

[Tulsamoonshine]

See I was just wanted an build flute and put my own spin on it. I was trying to cut the size with a water chill because I'm getting two barrels to try aging some and space is limited.

[Tater]

Using refrigeration cheapest out is if ya have a deep freeze .Freeze gallon or 5 gallon buckets of ice during week Use to help cool condenser water when running..

[Bayou-Ruler]

Using refrigeration cheapest out is if ya have a deep freeze .Freeze gallon or 5 gallon buckets of ice during week Use to help cool condenser water when running..

Thats what I do

[DAveCuds]

Hmmm, so i wonder what the price difference is. Turning the fridge on for 5hrs a day or wasting 300L of water per day?

I think i'm just going to try circulating a 80-100l tank and see if it stays relatively cool/warm for the 5hrs but i still think i will need something a little extra to keep that 80-100l cool for a longer run. Ah well, lets experiment

[Tulsamoonshine]

I'll give the frozen 5 gala try see if it works well thanks.

[corncooker69]

Hmmm, so i wonder what the price difference is. Turning the fridge on for 5hrs a day or wasting 300L of water per day?

I think i'm just going to try circulating a 80-100l tank and see if it stays relatively cool/warm for the 5hrs but i still think i will need something a little extra to keep that 80-100l cool for a longer run. Ah well, lets experiment

If you allready have the deep freezer , which I do. then you don't really use any more electricity, because mine stays on all the time anyways.

My secondary cooling tank will hold 2, 5 gallon buckets frozen solid with water around them.

[Bayou-Ruler]

Using refrigeration cheapest out is if ya have a deep freeze .Freeze gallon or 5 gallon buckets of ice during week Use to help cool condenser water when running..

Thats what I do

I actually use 3 liter cola bottles & refreeze them. use them over an over

[Tulsamoonshine]

My still set right next to the deep freezer all I would have to do is run copper in the side and out the bottom. That a free heat exchanger.

[Bushman]

Using refrigeration cheapest out is if ya have a deep freeze .Freeze gallon or 5 gallon buckets of ice during week Use to help cool condenser water when running..

This is the way I do it works great for me!

[Tater]

My still set right next to the deep freezer all I would have to do is run copper in the side and out the bottom. That a free heat exchanger.

This has been discussed a few times .Try a search on compressors

[theholymackerel]

My still set right next to the deep freezer all I would have to do is run copper in the side and out the bottom. That a free heat exchanger.

How can addin' heat to a deep freeze (which runs on electricity) be considered "free" in any way?

Other than a penny, or two, now and then to top off the water, a coil in a bucket is as close to a free operatin' condensor as there is.

Maybe my adherance to the KISS philosophy keeps me from understandin' folks passion for condensors requirin' runnin' water, electric pumps, chems, and electrical coolin'...

[DAveCuds]

But thats for a pot still right?

I can understand that on product take off but how would u keep the head condenser cool on a VM?

I like the setup of a small pond pump and recirculating 100l of water through both leiberg and head condenser. Anyway, works for me