Question Regarding Placement of takeoff in a 3'' VM Column

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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Uisge_a_Ghlinne
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Question Regarding Placement of takeoff in a 3'' VM Column

Post by Uisge_a_Ghlinne »

As I am waiting for bits I have had way too much time to think about the layout of 3'' reflux column heads. Now, I am not an expert in fluid dynamics, my knowledge of hydraulic behaviour comes form the fire service and my knowledge of the movement of air/vapour comes from parachuting and paragliding.

So with that disclaimer out of the way; My question concerns what happens when you reduce a 3'' column into a 2'' equal tee. My understanding is that as the vapour enters the reduction in the 2'' tee it accelerates but reduces in pressure. It is at this point that we place our takeoff aperture. Although ethanol vapour is denser than air or steam I would have thought that the reduction in pressure caused by the vapour acceleration would make the takeoff less efficient. In effect, the column would attempt to draw air up the leibeg to compensate for the reduction in pressure. If on the other hand the column widened back to 3'' velocity would reduce, pressure would rise and if a takeoff was placed in the 3'' it would be more efficient.

Having read as much as my wee brain can take, the only evidence I could find on the forum regarding this was Minime (I think) who noticed that when he placed an inverted funnel in the column below takeoff, product collection improved markedly.

Now, I am no expert and I know that nothing is truly new; just rediscovered or covered by someone else. Has anyone done work that would back up my thinking or am I way off the mark. If no one has I may build a head just to see how things pan out.

Over to the experts. :)
rad14701
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Re: Question Regarding Placement of takeoff in a 3'' VM Colu

Post by rad14701 »

What happens when a 3" column reduces to a 2" T...??? Let's assume the following... We have a column 3" in diameter being fed 4000 watts of power...The vapor speed would be ~26 inches per second (IPS)... Now, when the vapor in 3 inches gets forced down into 2 inches the vapor speed increases to ~58 IPS... And then if another 2" side branch is reached the vapor speed will reduce to, coincidentally, ~28 IPS... The closeness between 26 IPS and 28 IPS is, in fact, coincidental due to the selected column sizes...

If it was 2" and 1" with a heat input of 2000 watts the values would be ~29 IPS for 2", up to ~116 IPS for 1", and then back down to ~58 IPS at the secondary 1" branch...

Pressure changes are yet another story and are secondary in our working environment...
Uisge_a_Ghlinne
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Re: Question Regarding Placement of takeoff in a 3'' VM Colu

Post by Uisge_a_Ghlinne »

Thanks for that rad1401. My understanding is that the restricted column of vapour going through the 2'' would 'want' to move upward due to vapour pressure. I would have thought that you would require to induced turbulence to vapour to ensure a good feed into the 2'' tee . From my (limited) understanding I would have thought that if the vapour speed was reduced, pressure would rise (marginally) and that would get more vapour into the take off. Like I said, I am probably over complicating things but it helps to understand the forces within the column.

Having been 'lee side rotored' whilst under a parachute I am acutely aware of just how far away from a restriction a rotor or turbulence appears. :oops:
The Baker
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Re: Question Regarding Placement of takeoff in a 3'' VM Colu

Post by The Baker »

Uisge_a_Ghlinne wrote:Thanks for that rad1401. My understanding is that the restricted column of vapour going through the 2'' would 'want' to move upward due to vapour pressure. I would have thought that you would require to induced turbulence to vapour to ensure a good feed into the 2'' tee .
snip
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Has anyone thought of or tried a take-off at an upward angle between the horizontal and the vertical, instead of the usual horizontal Tee?
Or even (gasp!) a Y fitting with the take-off going up one arm and the column up the other (to resume the vertical with another fitting or a bend...)?
I know someone has (successfully) made a different type of still (not VM) with a similar curve to one arm of the Y, don't recall how he overcame the possible problem of liquid running down the inner side...
Not sure if it was this forum or another.
The Baker
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