Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

hackware · Post by **hackware** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:57 am

sumhow my thick fingers posted to wrong topic...

Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Postby hackware » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:53 pm
perfect...

thanx...

william...

ps. "mid atlantic"...? how do u keep yer still still...?

maritime · Post by **maritime** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:44 pm

ps. "mid atlantic"...? how do u keep yer still still...?

it's harder to hit a moving target.

maddyn99 · Post by **maddyn99** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:41 am

Started this wash yesterday and it started fermenting within 30 mins, maybe even less.

I went for a 6 Gallon wash (25l)

10 lbs of sugar (4.3 kg)
1 small can of organic tomato paste (170g). I looked at the ingredients and only the organic had JUST tomatoes, the others had additives and preservatives.
1 1/2 small lemons = 6 tsp of juice. I wasn't sure of the amount, as the lemons were very small. I measured the amount so I can adjust up or down for the next batch.
1/8 tsp Epsom salt
6 1/2 gallons of tap water. Approx 26l
100g of fleishmans bread yeast. TBH 50g was old yeast that I had from bread-making and 50g was from a new bottle. I will use 75g next time as I will be sure that my yeast is still active.

I added more water as I am used to making wine and wanted a FULL 6 gallons to distill since I have a 8 gallon still. Not sure how many lees the sugar wash leaves behind when you rack it but id rather have a bit more than a bit less.

Seems like a LOT of yeast compared to wine making, but it seems to work.

Starting SG was 1.068 and water temp was 32°C.

tomtom · Post by **tomtom** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:14 pm

hi
i live in emerald isle, and can,t find tomato paste anywere, would tomato puree do instead

tomtom

Post by **rad14701** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:43 pm

tomtom wrote:hi
i live in emerald isle, and can,t find tomato paste anywere, would tomato puree do instead
tomtom

Tomato paste IS pureed tomatoes... Just make sure you get the kind without any other added ingredients like oils or spices...

Post by **Samohon** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:55 pm

tomtom wrote:hi
i live in emerald isle, and can,t find tomato paste anywere, would tomato puree do instead
tomtom

Tesco or Asda's own make will do nicely. If you want a cheaper alternative, try a 500ml carton of passata (As Rad says, make sure its just tomatoes and not with herbs or spices...)
Its what I use and I'm convinced that its this and my constant temps that give me fast ferments...

Post by **stillenand chillen** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:51 pm

Amazing. Ran my still today and pot mode instead of reflux mode with a 20 gallon charge of birdwatchers. Got 4 gallons of product

. Started at 175 abf. Stopped at 50. Ran this recipe over a dozen times but never in pot mode. I just can't believe I got 4 gallons in 6 hours. We love our little friend. Would like to do a spirit run tommorrow. Just want to make sure I'm doing this correctly. From what I understand I will dilute all spirits above 100 abf by 40% with distilled water. Is that correct? I will just be adding water and spirits to charge my still. I will be putting my tower on biggie small. This will be my first try with the new keg

Post by **stillenand chillen** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:05 pm

blind drunk wrote:OK, thanks. I just run a pot still that I could extend to 36". There's a couple of cooling tubes through the column ... I like boozy coffee.

Hi, this is Chillen here

(of Stillen and Chillen!) I asked Stillen if he could make some Apple Pie at home after I tried it and loved it. . That's how this whole thing got started. Then we tried the Amaretto/Disarona recipe and loved that. Then we made Espresso Vodka. Woohoo. Now this boozy coffee is my favorite!

Cheers!

wishy · Post by **wishy** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:06 pm

Boys, i have mixed up a birdwatchers wash but it has dropped in temp to 15 degrees celcius for a week or so now. Its still at 1.04 and has barely moved.
Will it hurt / ruin the wash if i let it ferment out at this lowered temp /rate?

I've just bought a fishtank heater, if i pop that in there to get things cranking will the wash be fine to continue or should i start again?

cheers
Wishy

Post by **rad14701** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:13 am

wishy wrote:Boys, i have mixed up a birdwatchers wash but it has dropped in temp to 15 degrees celcius for a week or so now. Its still at 1.04 and has barely moved.
Will it hurt / ruin the wash if i let it ferment out at this lowered temp /rate?

15C/59F is a bit low for most yeasts other than Ale yeasts... Most yeast strains perform best at 24C/75F - 20C/85F, give or take a degree or two... If you can get the wash warmed up a bit you should see a more aggressive fermentation... The cooler temperature is making them lazy almost to the point of dormancy...

schmand · Post by **schmand** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:19 am

Hey guys,

this is my first post here (although I've been reading this forum for more than a half year).
When I started to read about this topic I found turbo yeast the best thing ever - a very common "mistake" I guess.
But when I tasted the finished product it changed my mind

Now I'm gonna set up a BW Sugar Wash. I don't understand everything in this thread (it's not my first language) so do you think this variation of BW is good?

6kg of Sugar
250g of Tomato puree
1/2 tsp. of MgSO4
75g of Bakers yeast from my local Bakery

fill up to 25l with water.

Is it correct that I do not have to "start up" (i dunno if it*s the right word) the yeast? I only have to put it on the water and then stir it in?

Greetings from Europe

schmand

Post by **rad14701** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:20 pm

schmand wrote:Is it correct that I do not have to "start up" (i dunno if it*s the right word) the yeast? I only have to put it on the water and then stir it in?

"Proofing" the yeast, or creating a "starter", is optional... Most here simply "pitch" (sprinkle) the yeast into the wash and either let it be as-is or stir it in...

Post by **maheel** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:58 pm

schmand wrote:Hey guys,

Now I'm gonna set up a BW Sugar Wash. I don't understand everything in this thread (it's not my first language) so do you think this variation of BW is good?

6kg of Sugar
250g of Tomato puree
1/2 tsp. of MgSO4
75g of Bakers yeast from my local Bakery
fill up to 25l with water.

schmand

i like BW

only few things i woudl maybe think about in your recipe, but i am no expert just what i like to do

you might need a little lemon juice or citirc acid
6kg might be a little to much sugar for 25L but should fully ferment, 5kg might be "faster and cleaner" to finish (but yields are lower)
check how much salt is in the tomato puree, i like the no added salt one's

good luck
turbos can be very good but i prefer BW so i dont have to muck about with carbon etc

Post by **rad14701** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:13 pm

maheel wrote:you might need a little lemon juice or citirc acid
6kg might be a little to much sugar for 25L but should fully ferment, 5kg might be "faster and cleaner" to finish (but yields are lower)

6kg in 25L gives a potential yield of 14.1% which is the maximum we recommend for sugar washes and should ferment just fine with bakers yeast... Yes, less sugar would ferment a bit quicker...

schmand · Post by **schmand** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:13 am

Okay, thank you!
Yeah, I forgot the citric acid. And 5 kg may be better, yes. Is it maybe better to use Lactic Acid? It doesn't degrade over time like citric acid does.
Can I use MgSO4 7H2O, too?

Post by **mash rookie** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:11 am

If you follow the recipe it will work off like a rocket. Too easy. No need to modify it. With all my washes, I wake up my yeast, pitch one half, add wash to the other half and pitch it 12 - 24 hours later. I cant put an air lock on my BW it works so hard it blows it off.

MR

Post by **rad14701** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:16 am

schmand wrote:Okay, thank you!
Yeah, I forgot the citric acid. And 5 kg may be better, yes. Is it maybe better to use Lactic Acid? It doesn't degrade over time like citric acid does.
Can I use MgSO4 7H2O, too?

The citric acid/lemon juice can be used for two separate purposes... It can be used to invert the sugar prior to mixing the wash and it can be used to drop the pH of the wash prior to pitching your yeast... I'll leave it to you to search for information on inverting sugar here in the forums if you have questions about that process...

schmand · Post by **schmand** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:33 pm

mash rookie wrote:If you follow the recipe it will work off like a rocket. Too easy. No need to modify it. With all my washes, I wake up my yeast, pitch one half, add wash to the other half and pitch it 12 - 24 hours later. I cant put an air lock on my BW it works so hard it blows it off.

MR

So what is the recipe? Do you mean the one on the first page? I dunno the units used for the original one. What unit is meant by cup? The us or the imperial one? Can someone convert the recipe to metric SI units for me? Sry for the inconvenience, but i'm german, i need precise date for the dosage

Post by **rad14701** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:36 pm

schmand wrote:So what is the recipe? Do you mean the one on the first page? I dunno the units used for the original one. What unit is meant by cup? The us or the imperial one? Can someone convert the recipe to metric SI units for me? Sry for the inconvenience, but i'm german, i need precise date for the dosage

1 cup = 8 fluid ounces = 250 milliliters

schmand · Post by **schmand** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:45 am

hey guys,
tried out the BW recipe with a 20l wash 2 days ago now:

- 3kg of Sugar
- 1 tsp. of Epsom Salt
- 200g tomato puree
- filled up to 20l of Water
- 84g of bakers yeast

I also poured in citric acid for the pH value, but the calculator on the homepage told me I had to put in only 0.26g for a ph of 4.2!? That seems a bit too little for me. Is 0.26g right? (annotation: I do not use the cheap super market stuff, but real pharmacy goods, so I guess it is pure enough)
Anyways, here are some pictures from the 12h old wash at that time:

Now (approx. 48h) later it is still fermenting and you can hear it fizzling.

Maybe I did something wrong at the beginning because it didn't start to ferment right off, it took like 45 mins; so not as fast as some of you had it.
It is slower but steady, some hours ago I poured in another 1kg of sugar. But always when I pour in more sugar the fermentation stops for about 30 mins. Is it because with the action of pouring oxygen got into the wash? Did you experience the same once? How long does it take to start fermenting for your washes? Maybe my wash started so late because temperature is only around 22°C indoors here?

Take care
schmand

Post by **rad14701** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:48 am

schmand, a 45 minute lag time is nothing to be concerned with... Every wash will be different due to the many variables involved...

The apparent sag in fermentation after adding sugar is due to the fact that you have an excess of CO2 released immediately after the addition and the concentration in the wash needs to build back up again...

You've added enough sugar at this point so just let it complete from here... I've never seen stepped addition as beneficial and instead simply invert all of the sugar right from the start... One way or another shooting for too high of a potential %ABV will get you, whether it's high initial gravity stress at the front end or high alcohol content stress at the back end... Stick with a moderate potential %ABV from the start and you'll have decent fermentation times without stressing the yeast the the point of producing off smells or flavors... You're currently at ~11.8% which is ideal...

schmand · Post by **schmand** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:30 am

rad14701 wrote:schmand, a 45 minute lag time is nothing to be concerned with... Every wash will be different due to the many variables involved...

The apparent sag in fermentation after adding sugar is due to the fact that you have an excess of CO2 released immediately after the addition and the concentration in the wash needs to build back up again...

You've added enough sugar at this point so just let it complete from here... I've never seen stepped addition as beneficial and instead simply invert all of the sugar right from the start... One way or another shooting for too high of a potential %ABV will get you, whether it's high initial gravity stress at the front end or high alcohol content stress at the back end... Stick with a moderate potential %ABV from the start and you'll have decent fermentation times without stressing the yeast the the point of producing off smells or flavors... You're currently at ~11.8% which is ideal...

Okay, thanks man!
Just tested some of it after 96h of fermentation. It still tastes very sweet but a bit alcoholic, too. Maybe about 7% ABV. Is that realistic after 4 days?
What do you think about the 0.26g of Citric Acid for 20l and pH 4.2?

At this moment I already find this recipe much better than the turbo yeast sh**. I would love to try the All Bran and Gerber recipes, too, but I cannot find those products in Germany.

schmand

Post by **rad14701** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:34 pm

schmand wrote:I would love to try the All Bran and Gerber recipes, too, but I cannot find those products in Germany.

http://www.kelloggs.de/produkte/languag ... 72114.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Also look for "Total Cereal"...

Texas Jim · Post by **Texas Jim** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:15 pm

I have a batch of this going to use on my maiden distillation. It started at 1.09 and is down to 1.02. I don't seem to be having the fast ferment some people do - the airlock is bubbling once every 5 seconds or so, but it does seem to be working.

Now a quick question - when this gets to .995, do I have to rack it off or do I just pour it into the still?

Post by **blind drunk** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:20 pm

Now a quick question - when this gets to .995, do I have to rack it off or do I just pour it into the still?

It's a good idea to rack the wash into another container the day before, so the suspended solids have a chance to fall. Especially for a neutral, since you want the cleanest wash possible going into your still. I would rack twice, but that's not what you're asking.

Texas Jim · Post by **Texas Jim** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:26 pm

I may not have asked it, but I do appreciate the advice. I've got the time, so I'll do it.

What do you do with a sugar wash after you've distilled it anyway? Age it with oak spirals?

Post by **tomgndallas** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:25 pm

thats really up to you, and what you envision. if you are going for a vodka, there are a bunch of different threads here on aging, infusions, etc. i am currently playing with infusions and 90 proof neutral. strongly considering trying the strawberry panty dropper. what kind of still are you using?

good luck, you have lots of homework to do, as do I. read up on making cuts of your spirit run and get all your stuff together before hand, jars, test equipment, etc. take your time, be safe, and have fun!

Horse_Shoe · Post by **Horse_Shoe** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:36 pm

rad14701 wrote:Why the hell do you keep making too much rice...??? I mean, back down on the recipe, man... Do you only know how to make rice in one proportion...??? Or, better yet, ever heard of eating leftovers...??? Your wash bucket is not a substitute for the garbage pail...

hahahahahahaha! Go get em Drill Instructor RAD!

I'm the same way. I just can't waste food. And, I always seem to have some left over.

Good Times

Post by **tomgndallas** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:38 am

mmmmm, ok ?

Texas Jim · Post by **Texas Jim** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:59 am

tomgndallas wrote:thats really up to you, and what you envision. if you are going for a vodka, there are a bunch of different threads here on aging, infusions, etc. i am currently playing with infusions and 90 proof neutral. strongly considering trying the strawberry panty dropper. what kind of still are you using?

good luck, you have lots of homework to do, as do I. read up on making cuts of your spirit run and get all your stuff together before hand, jars, test equipment, etc. take your time, be safe, and have fun!

I have a boiler and pot still head from Hillbilly Stills. I want to make bourbon and scotch eventually - I'm using this sugar wash to practice with.