electric pony keg

[199proof]

so i recently bought a 15.5 gallon keg and decided to downgrade to a pony keg for space reasons. I was wondering if anyone had an electric pony keg like the 15.5 gallon ones and what size heating element would you use in it. ive been doing alot of reading and have found the couplings and heater element but dont know the wattage that i would need to use, Thx for the replies in advanced

199

[MuleKicker]

Are you runnign 220v? If so, I would go 5500w. Just because Im impatient, and you would be cooking in no time. Otherwise, if you only want to run 120v, you could do an 1800w element. That would put you at 15A. just make sure your running on a 20A circuit.

[199proof]

wouldnt 5500 heat it up too fast probably to boiling....i just want to do a 120 volt. Also off subject whats the best way to weld the coupling to stainless steel.

[MuleKicker]

then go 120, get yourself a 1800w element. and your good to go. http://www.plumbingsupply.com/stainles.html#coupling they sell the 1/2 couplings needed to screw in a water heater element. 1" pipe thread. Tig welding is your best bet for that.

[199proof]

thx mk i appreciate the help....could i not mig weld it or would the weld not be strong enough

[itchy]

as mulekicker stated tig welding is the best option... yes you can mig weld it but by the time you set up with tri mix gas and buy a roll of stainless wire you could just swing by a weldshop and get it done right.. i have had sucess just soldering it on but again its special flux by harris and you should use silver bearing solder for strength... again it adds up to about the same cost as having it done by tig...

[199proof]

cool thx i appreciate it i think i will get a tig welder and try this myself seems pretty self explanatory.

[Waygrumpy]

Not to argue but mig would be just fine if you have the setup. I have both mig and tig at my factory. At home i only have mig with mixed gas. I just got in grom the garage about an hour ago and did 2 very similar fittings with my small mig welder. They are leak tight and as strong or stronger then the original material.

[Waygrumpy]

You will want to be able to control your power to a point.

In my case I decided to go with 2 2000 watt 115 vac elements.

When I ramp my temperature I use both elements. Then when I go to or close to temperature I run just one 2000 watt vac element.

Now that being said I had 2 20 amp circuits I could easily tie into.

Here is a bit of the math to think about.

I assume your batch will be about 5 gallons so you have room for boilover. If I am wrong you can adjust this math. 1 US gallon of water weighs about 8.35 lbs so your batch will weigh 41.75 lbs.

Ok now lets discuss elements first things first you will need to determine the current draw of your element to make sure you have a circuit that will run it.

To do this take the power of your element for example a 2000 watt element and divide it by the power you are going to run it with 220 or 115.

So in my case I use 2 2k elements each will be 2000/115 or 17.393 amps each.

Earlier someone suggested an 1800 watt element at 115 vac so you would go 1800/115 or 15.65217 amps so just a bit over the standard 15 amp breaker in a house. This is not to say the breaker would trip but it is over the 15 amp throw point and could easily blow. (From an engineers stand point this would not get done. It can be a bit unsafe and could blow mid boil. )

OK so we have thought about if we have power to drive our elements our next thing is how much power is really needed.

I chose 2 2k elements to heat up my wash rapidly. Here is how you can figure out the rate of rise assuming all is works as it is supposed to.

Ok lets start with what is a British Thermal unit or BTU. A BTU is the energy it takes to raise one pound of water 1 degree Fahrenheit.

So lets assume your wash is starting at 70 deg F and you are trying to get it to the boiling point of alcohol or 148.5. That means we need to raise the temperature 78.5 degrees.
We can determine how many BTUs it will take to raise our water temperature that 78.6 degrees by multiplying the weight we talked about above and the temperature difference so 41.75 * 78.5 or 3277.375 required BTUS

OK the math class is almost over I promise. (i have also done this on a spreadsheet as I wrote this if anyone is going to want it let me know.)

Now with what we know so far we can figure out roughly how long an element will take to get to our set point . (This is not taking into consideration thermal loss from lack of insulation etc.) 1 watt of pwer from an element will generate 3.413 BTUs. So a 2000 watt element will generate 6826 BTUs so we have enough energy to heat our liquid.

To determine how long it will take to raise the temperature of your 5 gallons of liquid to start boiling the alcohol we divide the required BTUs by the generated BTUs 3277.375/ 6826 or about .48 hours. Which would be 30 minutes give or take a bit.

Now I will not rework all the math but using the other posters 1800 watt suggestion here are the pertinent

with an 1800 watt element and 5 gallons of wash.
current required - 15.6217 amps
Time to raise water by 78.6 degrees .533 hours or a bit more then half an hour

I think I got this math pretty close if not dead on.

Now the last thing about all of this I found here on the reflux design page located at http://homedistiller.org/refluxdesign.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The max power you want for each tower diameter.
1.00" = 800 W
1.25" = 1250 W
1.50" = 1800 W
1.75" = 2450 W
2.00" = 3200 W
2.25" = 4050 W
2.50" = 5000 W

Sorry if I droned on a bit.

[199proof]

wooooooow i really appreciate that breakdown because it really told me alot about some basic things i need to knonw about electricity and the fact that i could blow some shit up in the house lol, i will probably have to go with the 1800 kw or even a 1500 kw element because after checking around the house i only have one outlet rated at 20 amp which is pretty lame and its in the laundry room. so more than likely about the 1500-1800 kw. what would i use to drill into stainless is there any special tools or just a drill \... because after researching ive read that it is pretty hard to do. also if you have pics of your still do you mind postin i would greatly appreciate so i can see the welds. once again thx and i shall return soon off to work

[Coaster]

@ 199proof,

Do you have an electric dryer in your laundry room? If so then you have access to 220 voltage.

A hole saw can be used to drill a hole in your 15.5-gallon stainless steel keg. Surprisingly a 15.5-gallon stainless steel keg isn’t that thick. Actually drilling a hole in a 15.5-gallon stainless steel keg isn’t difficult. With a hole saw use slow steady speed with light firm pressure.

Regards,
Coaster

[199proof]

thx coaster i do have a dryer but not alot of space in the laundry room so a smaller one would fit but the big keg would take up too much space and thx for telling me to drill it i have a hole saw here at the house and would be able to do it once all parts are here

[Waygrumpy]

If it were me i would notrush it and use some oil were i am cutting to keep the heat down. This will require some cleanup when you are done but ....

[rad14701]

Having enough power is not the issue at hand, being able to control it with precision is the most important aspect of heating with electric... It doesn't matter whether you have 5500 Watts of power to throw into the wash or 1500 Watts if you can't maintain steady fine grained adjustments and consistent settings once the boiler is up to temperature... The controller is the most important component of any electrically heated reflux column... That choice will ultimately be more important than which element to use...

[Waygrumpy]

Good Point rad.

I myself am working on that now. temperature control solution. i am not certain how i want to do it yet and I am sure that is a topic for a different thread.

I was just pointing out that if he keeps blowing his breaker it does not matter how fine of control he has since if the breaker blows it is all over.

I have read several suggestions on the forums most of which are using a triac and a standard house dimmer. Not sure if I like this solution of not but it is certainly affordable.

[199proof]

Yeah im working with someone on the controller and I way to tweak it to see how to run the still and what settings will be best. This will mainly be a potstill as im not trying to go reflux at the moment. As far as the triac and house dimmer it really is a cheap way to go but im getting a tried and true one made for this set up which I believe will work fine. My main objective is to be able to run a still in the comforts of my house without nosy people in my shit lol... but seriously being electric will be better for me as I live in an apt and my garage is wide open for the world to see if I was to run in the garage. So using propane for me would be better but as far as having the right area to do it in is not adequate at the moment for me. So I figure get this still tweaked to the best possible point and once I can actually go bigger would be better for me. One question in an early post it was talking about to boilover should I only run 5g gallons or would 6.5 be good leaving a gallon displacement for boilover

[Coaster]

@ 199proof,

The rule of thumb is to only charge the boiler to 75% of boiler capacity.

Regards,
Coaster

[199proof]

thx coaster thats about 5.8 gallons which should yied a decent amount of shine

[Waygrumpy]

. what would i use to drill into stainless is there any special tools or just a drill \... because after researching ive read that it is pretty hard to do. also if you have pics of your still do you mind postin i would greatly appreciate so i can see the welds. once again thx and i shall return soon off to work

You could use a couple of things.
1. a step drill.
These are very cool because they will do a small hole to start then you keep going through each step until you get the size you want. (Make sure you start with a pilot hole)
2. a hole saw I have found this does not give me as much control. Considering you wil need to weld the nut on anyhow either will work.

I would make sure i do not try to go to fast and keep my hole lubricated while i drill it out or you may kill either one of these in a single hole.

D0 NOT try a paddle bit that would be a mess waiting to happen.

[Waygrumpy]

Pony I am working on a controller as well. I am not one to want to recreate the wheel. If you have some information about what you are doing I would love to hear it.

[199proof]

very informative about the drilling bit ive used a step drill before and believe that will be best suited because i can choose the size and how tight i would like it

[Waygrumpy]

199proof any links on the temperature controller you are working on. would love to see it.

[199proof]

sorry for any confusions i am thinking of buying one off mk i pm'ed him about it, but if i find a way then i would be more than willing to give you links

[beelah]

waygrummhttp://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=17365py" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow take a look a this link

[beelah]

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=17365

sorry try this

[beelah]

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=17383

and this one

[199proof]

thats good reading maybe i will try one of those

[Waygrumpy]

Wow thanks that is good reading. Thanks for the information.

[199proof]

after doing some research i am wondering if it would be better to build a triac or a phase angle controller. the phase angle seems like it would hold a heavier electric load whil the triac would not but if someone has any information that could better explain the pros and cons of each it would be greatly appreciated....hopefully mulekicker might have some input as well seeing as he was in both of the threads that i read...but anyone could help it would all be just fine for me. thx.

[Waygrumpy]

after doing some research i am wondering if it would be better to build a triac or a phase angle controller. the phase angle seems like it would hold a heavier electric load whil the triac would not but if someone has any information that could better explain the pros and cons of each it would be greatly appreciated....hopefully mulekicker might have some input as well seeing as he was in both of the threads that i read...but anyone could help it would all be just fine for me. thx.

I think you will be ok with either design. Both are using parts capable of up to 40 amps which gives you the ability to run a fairly large load off of either.

That was a task to read all 63 pages but both seem well thought out.

The triac is cheaper but may be harder to assemble if you have never done one.
The pwm ssr e44me 6o b4 w foupl4 bucks more but will be easier to assemble.