sugar wash trials
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sugar wash trials
So basically I know nothing and that's a great place to start. I would like to learn how to brew a clean neutral wash that doesn't take weeks to finish. While accumulating supplies, I started to experiment. First up was to add 135 grams of sugar to a 3 liter bottle of apple juice, resulting in an OG of 1.067, with 200 mg/L Fermaid K, and 600 mg/L DAP. At the same time, I tried a pure sugar wash with 265 grams of sugar to 1.5 liters of water, resulting in an OG of 1.083, with 300 mg/L Fermaid K, and 900 mg/L DAP.
This was a ghetto trial and I didn't have citric acid or lemons, so I used orange juice (85 ml) to bring down the pH of the sugar wash, while the apple juice was fine for pH. But I did rehydrate 5 grams of Premier Cuvee yeast with Go-Ferm protect, and added both sugar and nutes in stages. [What a royal pain, I gave up the staged additions immediately after this trial.]
The apple juice took off and fermented dry in four days, while the high sugar wash took about two weeks to finish off. I added back a can of apple juice concentrate to sweeten up the apple wash, and have been sampling it ever since. All I can say is very nice, very smooth. The sugar wash tastes fairly sharp (higher alcohol?) and somewhat metallic.
I then started a second round with a 1.5 liter trial each of tomato paste and light Dried Malt Extract (DME). No nutes this time, except for the minor amount of Go-Ferm used in rehydrating the Premier Cuvee yeast. I decided to go with 200 g/L sugar (~1.075 SG) for this run and all future trials, so that comparative results are simplified. Both of these (tomato paste and DME) were neck and neck, finishing in about 12 days.
I superimposed both runs (four separate ferments) into one chart-
Now I need to know how these nutrients, Fermaid K and DAP, affect pure sugar washes. I obtained my water report on my community well water and there is plenty of calcium, magnesium and other trace minerals, so I am skipping, for now, any experiments with epsom salts and gypsum. I decided to stick to a ratio of one part Fermaid K to three parts DAP, since three times as much DAP is allowed by the TTB than Fermaid K (due to thiamine content). The calculated yeast available nitrogen (YAN) varies in this six iteration trial from 74 ppm YAN to 491 ppm YAN, with the highest level more than twice the allowed levels of nutes. Here's the notebook data-
And here's the chart-
Not quite sure why the lowest nute level started slow and then caught up and passed most of the other YAN levels, but the following picture shows that the clarity of bottle one (the low nute bottle) equals the clarity of the highest nute bottle. BTW, those are not the ferment bottles, they are samples of each run that I am letting settle for a future taste comparison. I want the cleanest tasting wash possible in a reasonably fast ferment.
Hey, who's drinking all my applejack? Oh, that's right... nevermind.
This was a ghetto trial and I didn't have citric acid or lemons, so I used orange juice (85 ml) to bring down the pH of the sugar wash, while the apple juice was fine for pH. But I did rehydrate 5 grams of Premier Cuvee yeast with Go-Ferm protect, and added both sugar and nutes in stages. [What a royal pain, I gave up the staged additions immediately after this trial.]
The apple juice took off and fermented dry in four days, while the high sugar wash took about two weeks to finish off. I added back a can of apple juice concentrate to sweeten up the apple wash, and have been sampling it ever since. All I can say is very nice, very smooth. The sugar wash tastes fairly sharp (higher alcohol?) and somewhat metallic.
I then started a second round with a 1.5 liter trial each of tomato paste and light Dried Malt Extract (DME). No nutes this time, except for the minor amount of Go-Ferm used in rehydrating the Premier Cuvee yeast. I decided to go with 200 g/L sugar (~1.075 SG) for this run and all future trials, so that comparative results are simplified. Both of these (tomato paste and DME) were neck and neck, finishing in about 12 days.
I superimposed both runs (four separate ferments) into one chart-
Now I need to know how these nutrients, Fermaid K and DAP, affect pure sugar washes. I obtained my water report on my community well water and there is plenty of calcium, magnesium and other trace minerals, so I am skipping, for now, any experiments with epsom salts and gypsum. I decided to stick to a ratio of one part Fermaid K to three parts DAP, since three times as much DAP is allowed by the TTB than Fermaid K (due to thiamine content). The calculated yeast available nitrogen (YAN) varies in this six iteration trial from 74 ppm YAN to 491 ppm YAN, with the highest level more than twice the allowed levels of nutes. Here's the notebook data-
And here's the chart-
Not quite sure why the lowest nute level started slow and then caught up and passed most of the other YAN levels, but the following picture shows that the clarity of bottle one (the low nute bottle) equals the clarity of the highest nute bottle. BTW, those are not the ferment bottles, they are samples of each run that I am letting settle for a future taste comparison. I want the cleanest tasting wash possible in a reasonably fast ferment.
Hey, who's drinking all my applejack? Oh, that's right... nevermind.
Sex is like mowing my lawn. I hate it, but it's the only exercise I get.
Trial three
At this point, I know that sugar and nutes alone are not ideal. And it looks as if an adjunct without nutes would also probably not meet my goal of a clean, moderately fast ferment. So the first thing is to take a closer look at possible adjuncts. It took quite awhile, but I finally gathered up quite a bit of nutritional information on likely candidates...
So I then picked out a wide range from these possibilities that happened to be available to me, varied the nutrient level, and came up with a trial of nine ferments...
I started this trial only two days ago, so while there may be a surprise or two later, it is already pretty clear the results...
I am not taking SGs every hour, btw. The data is calculated by weighing each bottle to determine CO2 loss and either interpolating or exterpolating the SG from measured SG values, using the weight loss to scale the intermediate SG values, since CO2 loss is directly proportional to ethanol production as well as the specific gravity. And no, the SG of the marmite/soy bottle is not under .980 as the chart shows, that is just the slight inaccuracy due to exterpolation. It will be corrected when I take a second SG reading of the bottles.
And here is a picture of this trial...
So I then picked out a wide range from these possibilities that happened to be available to me, varied the nutrient level, and came up with a trial of nine ferments...
I started this trial only two days ago, so while there may be a surprise or two later, it is already pretty clear the results...
I am not taking SGs every hour, btw. The data is calculated by weighing each bottle to determine CO2 loss and either interpolating or exterpolating the SG from measured SG values, using the weight loss to scale the intermediate SG values, since CO2 loss is directly proportional to ethanol production as well as the specific gravity. And no, the SG of the marmite/soy bottle is not under .980 as the chart shows, that is just the slight inaccuracy due to exterpolation. It will be corrected when I take a second SG reading of the bottles.
And here is a picture of this trial...
Sex is like mowing my lawn. I hate it, but it's the only exercise I get.
Re: sugar wash trials
Oh yeah, in case anyone can't spreadsheet a pdf, here's an xls version of trial three, with nutritional data... oops, can't upload an xls. Well, if anyone is interested, let me know. I'll try to figure out how to hook you up with a csv or something.
Sex is like mowing my lawn. I hate it, but it's the only exercise I get.
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Re: sugar wash trials
Sorry I didn't see this post before now, but it looks like you have some really great hard data there.
For folks trying to figure out their nutrient situation, this kind of information would really be helpful.
Do me a favor, though, and distill a couple of the washes and let us know if any of them came out with a particularly nice taste.
That soy flour wash and the kidney bean wash intrigue me.
Well done.
For folks trying to figure out their nutrient situation, this kind of information would really be helpful.
Do me a favor, though, and distill a couple of the washes and let us know if any of them came out with a particularly nice taste.
That soy flour wash and the kidney bean wash intrigue me.
Well done.
Read about Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe.
Download Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe in pdf format.
Read About How to Malt Barley (or Wheat) for Beer (or Whisky/Whiskey)
Download Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe in pdf format.
Read About How to Malt Barley (or Wheat) for Beer (or Whisky/Whiskey)
Re: sugar wash trials
Thanks, Bob. It's because I haven't built my still yet that I have the time to screw around with nutrients and weird washes. I have more patience than money, so I'm going to have to wait until after the holidays for my still build. I can only report on the taste of the washes themselves for now, and I will post that info shortly. Knowing that I will throw quite a bit of the first distillates away for cleaning out a new still build, I can play with some of the more exotic washes (as well as ultra high nutrients) and not worry that I am wasting sugar on them, because they will help clean up a new still, even if they are butt-ugly tasting.
Sex is like mowing my lawn. I hate it, but it's the only exercise I get.
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Re: sugar wash trials
Mogur you spread sheet egg head. I wondered what the heck you were doing up there on the Island. I was up last Tuesday dropping off a crate. What kind of still are you going to build. Or are you saving up to buy one of my art stills?
I am going to re address my noodle neutral recipe trial soon. Your trail should offer some good comparison info. A member PM'd me recently to inquire about it. I have been using BW again recently because my newer stills are so efficient that developing a good neutral wash for a flute kind of went to the back burner for me. I need to follow through on it.
Keep notes on before and after taste. A good tasting wash does not always make a good tasting distillate and vise versus.
Good looking work Amigo.
I am going to re address my noodle neutral recipe trial soon. Your trail should offer some good comparison info. A member PM'd me recently to inquire about it. I have been using BW again recently because my newer stills are so efficient that developing a good neutral wash for a flute kind of went to the back burner for me. I need to follow through on it.
Keep notes on before and after taste. A good tasting wash does not always make a good tasting distillate and vise versus.
Good looking work Amigo.
Re: sugar wash trials
Zip the xls file and upload the zip file...mogur wrote:Oh yeah, in case anyone can't spreadsheet a pdf, here's an xls version of trial three, with nutritional data... oops, can't upload an xls. Well, if anyone is interested, let me know. I'll try to figure out how to hook you up with a csv or something.
Re: sugar wash trials
This is some great info and in an easy to understand form. Some people just get graphs better than the written word. That's me. I like pictures. I am interested in the final product too. Keep us informed!!
Re: sugar wash trials
Grin, nah, just a cheap kitchen build. Pot still to start, VM down the road.mash rookie wrote:What kind of still are you going to build. Or are you saving up to buy one of my art stills?
Sex is like mowing my lawn. I hate it, but it's the only exercise I get.
Re: sugar wash trials
Thanks, rad, I knew that...rad14701 wrote:Zip the xls file and upload the zip file...
wash trial three.zip
Edit: Oops, I just downloaded this spreadsheet this morning and opened it in Real Office. It's a mess. The problem was that I downloaded it from Google Drive in a rush last night before going out, zipped it, and posted it. Let me get it straight and I'll re-upload a proper version in a few hours. Sorry.
Here's a much better version (I hope)
Here's a much better version (I hope)
Sex is like mowing my lawn. I hate it, but it's the only exercise I get.
Re: sugar wash trials
So here's the final chart for trial three-
(I'll postpone demonstrating my ignorance with an analysis of this trial, until a future post.)
(I'll postpone demonstrating my ignorance with an analysis of this trial, until a future post.)
Sex is like mowing my lawn. I hate it, but it's the only exercise I get.
Re: sugar wash trials
What exactly is nutritional yeast? Just curious because it seems to have outpreformed the rest of the pack. Were the nutrients what threw off your starting SG readings? It seems like a quite a range of starting SG's. I assume you were weighing them to get a starting reading and the different weights of the additions may have throw it off a bit? Just guessing here.
Current Evolution:
MrDistiller > 2" potstill > copper 4" perf 4 plate flute
"I seal the lid with Silly Putty, that's OK ain't it ?"
~ kekedog13
"Attach a vibrator to it and hang it upside down. Let it work"
~Mr. P
MrDistiller > 2" potstill > copper 4" perf 4 plate flute
"I seal the lid with Silly Putty, that's OK ain't it ?"
~ kekedog13
"Attach a vibrator to it and hang it upside down. Let it work"
~Mr. P
Re: sugar wash trials
Screw it, I'll get this analysis over with, so I can move on to the next labor intensive trial.
All washes in the trial had exactly 300 grams (200g/L) of table sugar, 30 grams of adjuncts (20 grams/L), water to bring the total volume to 1500 ml, and either a high level of nutrients (Fermaid K & DAP) at 285 ppm YAN, or a low level of nutrients at 95 ppm YAN. Ten grams of wine yeast were rehydrated with GoFerm protect, and pitched equally to the nine 1.75 liter fermenting bottles, resulting in a pitch of about .75 g/L. That is a pitch rate three times higher than the recommended 5 grams per 20 liters.
The result chart is totally confusing unless the trial is split into two groups. The first group is the five bottles all containing high levels of nutrients and plant-derived adjuncts.
As noted, they 'finished' (I arbitrarily chose an SG of 1.000 as the finish line) in the same order as their nitrogen content, as expected.
I was completely surprised by the performance of the other group of washes. I expected the soy protein (which has the highest nitrogen content of all trial adjuncts, at 1240 ppm) to be the top performer, but it did not even finish within a week.
At 148 hours, I added a crushed multi-vitamin to the sluggish soy protein ferment to see if it was a B-complex deficiency, and then a day and a half later, I added a couple grams of Fermaid K and DAP. You be the judge, but it looks to me like the vitamin helped and the extra nutrient didn't. I'll set that bottle aside to see where it goes.The low nutrient soy flour bottle was the last to finish, probably due to fact that it also may have suffered from a deficiency, probably vitamin as well. The nutritional yeast test came in second best, in spite of low added nutrients, probably because it is high protein to start with; and they load it up with B vitamins for the vegans to chow down. It came as a bit of a surprise to me until I looked at the nute info again and saw the extremely high vitamin B content.
And coming in first, and foaming all over my bathtub, was the bottle containing 15 grams of Marmite and 15 grams of soy flour (10g/L, each). That surprised me as well, because I thought the high salt content of that large of a Marmite addition would cause a huge osmotic shock to the yeast. Nah, they loved it. And it was a last minute substitution, to boot. At three in the morning, I discovered that I was out of the planned adjunct, tomato paste, so I just substituted a crazy mix of salty yeast extract and soy flour.
And what did we learn? You, probably nothing. Me, I am just coming out of the gate, so everything is a learning experience.
1. Fermaid K and DAP are more important than the amino acid proteins of plant-derived adjuncts, by far. However, neither are vigorous fermenters by themselves, a combination is essential.
2. Yeast based adjuncts are way more active than plant-based ones, even with respect to their relative nitrogen contents. Yeast seem to supply some essentials that plants tend to lack.
3. The cost of yeast extracts and inactivated yeast products limit their use as a sole adjunct.
Therefore, my next run will attempt to combine plant adjuncts with smaller amounts of expensive yeast adjuncts, while I experiment with producing my own yeast extracts using relatively inexpensive baker's yeast (and limiting the salt content). Anyone got any extra papain? It's the most effective protease for yeast, but Adolf's stopped putting it in their meat tenderizer.
All washes in the trial had exactly 300 grams (200g/L) of table sugar, 30 grams of adjuncts (20 grams/L), water to bring the total volume to 1500 ml, and either a high level of nutrients (Fermaid K & DAP) at 285 ppm YAN, or a low level of nutrients at 95 ppm YAN. Ten grams of wine yeast were rehydrated with GoFerm protect, and pitched equally to the nine 1.75 liter fermenting bottles, resulting in a pitch of about .75 g/L. That is a pitch rate three times higher than the recommended 5 grams per 20 liters.
The result chart is totally confusing unless the trial is split into two groups. The first group is the five bottles all containing high levels of nutrients and plant-derived adjuncts.
As noted, they 'finished' (I arbitrarily chose an SG of 1.000 as the finish line) in the same order as their nitrogen content, as expected.
I was completely surprised by the performance of the other group of washes. I expected the soy protein (which has the highest nitrogen content of all trial adjuncts, at 1240 ppm) to be the top performer, but it did not even finish within a week.
At 148 hours, I added a crushed multi-vitamin to the sluggish soy protein ferment to see if it was a B-complex deficiency, and then a day and a half later, I added a couple grams of Fermaid K and DAP. You be the judge, but it looks to me like the vitamin helped and the extra nutrient didn't. I'll set that bottle aside to see where it goes.The low nutrient soy flour bottle was the last to finish, probably due to fact that it also may have suffered from a deficiency, probably vitamin as well. The nutritional yeast test came in second best, in spite of low added nutrients, probably because it is high protein to start with; and they load it up with B vitamins for the vegans to chow down. It came as a bit of a surprise to me until I looked at the nute info again and saw the extremely high vitamin B content.
And coming in first, and foaming all over my bathtub, was the bottle containing 15 grams of Marmite and 15 grams of soy flour (10g/L, each). That surprised me as well, because I thought the high salt content of that large of a Marmite addition would cause a huge osmotic shock to the yeast. Nah, they loved it. And it was a last minute substitution, to boot. At three in the morning, I discovered that I was out of the planned adjunct, tomato paste, so I just substituted a crazy mix of salty yeast extract and soy flour.
And what did we learn? You, probably nothing. Me, I am just coming out of the gate, so everything is a learning experience.
1. Fermaid K and DAP are more important than the amino acid proteins of plant-derived adjuncts, by far. However, neither are vigorous fermenters by themselves, a combination is essential.
2. Yeast based adjuncts are way more active than plant-based ones, even with respect to their relative nitrogen contents. Yeast seem to supply some essentials that plants tend to lack.
3. The cost of yeast extracts and inactivated yeast products limit their use as a sole adjunct.
Therefore, my next run will attempt to combine plant adjuncts with smaller amounts of expensive yeast adjuncts, while I experiment with producing my own yeast extracts using relatively inexpensive baker's yeast (and limiting the salt content). Anyone got any extra papain? It's the most effective protease for yeast, but Adolf's stopped putting it in their meat tenderizer.
Last edited by mogur on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sex is like mowing my lawn. I hate it, but it's the only exercise I get.
Re: sugar wash trials
Nutritional yeast is grown on a sugar beet substrate specifically for producing a high protein food for human consumption. Vegans love it for the nutty, cheesy flavor, so the producers dope it up with lots of vitamins to help the sales pitch, part of why it's 8 bucks a pound in bulk. Fortunately for us, and probably unfortunately for vegans, the taste enhancing qualities of nutritional yeast comes from its high glutamate content (precursor to MSG), but a great amino acid for fermentation. Btw, it becomes a sickly yellow color in highly concentrated solutions, and it does smell rather cheesy. Despite all that, I plan to use it in smaller amounts in most of my next round of trials, for its vitamin content as well as its nitrogen content (amino acid proteins).Durace11 wrote:What exactly is nutritional yeast? Just curious because it seems to have outpreformed the rest of the pack. Were the nutrients what threw off your starting SG readings? It seems like a quite a range of starting SG's. I assume you were weighing them to get a starting reading and the different weights of the additions may have throw it off a bit? Just guessing here.
I don't think the nutrients threw off the SGs. The high nutrient bottles received 2.25 grams of Fermaid K and DAP, while the low nutrient bottles got .75 grams, a difference of only 1.5 grams. All bottles also had the same amount of sugar (300 g) and adjunct (30 g) and then were brought up to same starting weight with water. The SG starting difference was probably due to my lack of skill, a cheapo hydrometer, and/or the difference in adjunct solubility. I don't know, some of the adjuncts also had a fair amount of sugar content, which could explain the high readings, but not the lower SGs.
Sex is like mowing my lawn. I hate it, but it's the only exercise I get.
Re: sugar wash trials
Really paying close attention to this thread. Been looking for a method to make soybean into something...whether it would be whisky/brandy style, refluxed with flavor...etc.
I have easy access to soy, cracked and de-hulled or toasted meal.
I have easy access to soy, cracked and de-hulled or toasted meal.
Re: sugar wash trials
IMO, if your charts are correct I'd say first was the nutritional yeast only because it started at the same gravity as the Marmite and soy flour but reached a lower FG in the end & only a few hours later. I realize you were looking for which one reached 1.000 quickest but IMO "going deeper" > "going faster". Also, that few hours could be the clearing stage and / or a single overnight. Even on a large batch I'd say one extra day is not going to break anyone's plans. Still, all great info to chew on and IMO, access & cost to the items in a recipe is going to trump all. If you can't get easy access to the stuff you are going to go with what's easiest/cheapest. That's why Birdwatcher's/Gerber/All Bran/Wino's are such great recipes IMO, everything can be bought on a regualr trip to the market. I'm not sure Marmite or Nutritional yeast are at my local market.mogur wrote:And coming in first
Really looking forward to future trials of this sort. COME ON NOODLE NEUTRAL!
Current Evolution:
MrDistiller > 2" potstill > copper 4" perf 4 plate flute
"I seal the lid with Silly Putty, that's OK ain't it ?"
~ kekedog13
"Attach a vibrator to it and hang it upside down. Let it work"
~Mr. P
MrDistiller > 2" potstill > copper 4" perf 4 plate flute
"I seal the lid with Silly Putty, that's OK ain't it ?"
~ kekedog13
"Attach a vibrator to it and hang it upside down. Let it work"
~Mr. P
Re: sugar wash trials
Yeah, I agree 100%, duracell. I arbitrarily chose the 1.000 SG mark, but any measure is just as valid, depending on what your goal is. All nine bottles started with exactly 300 grams of sugar, and regardless of the OG, by the time they reached dryness, I am quite sure they produced very nearly the same amount of ethanol, even if there were minor differences in the sugar content of each 30 grams of adjunct. Similar to trying to take gravity readings of a molasses brew, I think that measured (or even calculated) sugar content is more accurate than OG readings for adjuncts of varying solubility.
I'm really not trying to 'one up' the tried and true recipes. I am simply trying to learn and find what I am comfortable with. Once I had a handle on the nutritional data on a variety of possible yeast foods, I just went to my closest (small) food store ten miles away (the nearest supermarket is 50 miles away) and picked up small amounts of often weird bulk food items, just to play around with. I just now got back with little baggies of bee pollen and flax seed meal to use in my next round. I am definitely on the same page as you about the cost and availability; however, the small scale of these fermentations, and not being required to still and actually drink any one of these trials, give me a license to play with seemingly bizarre adjuncts.
Killing time until my still build, I'm just having fun with the experimentation. Tomato paste, while not very nutritional for protein content, ferments about as fast as any of the plant adjuncts, and seems to produce a really clean tasting wash. I realize that the final judgement on taste requires distillation, but all in good time. I am not really looking for a 'magic formula', but rather what works for me. The four or five hour setup and every eight hour data taking is getting a little old, but it keeps me off the streets, and once stilling is underway, there won't be much motive to play around like this.
I'm really not trying to 'one up' the tried and true recipes. I am simply trying to learn and find what I am comfortable with. Once I had a handle on the nutritional data on a variety of possible yeast foods, I just went to my closest (small) food store ten miles away (the nearest supermarket is 50 miles away) and picked up small amounts of often weird bulk food items, just to play around with. I just now got back with little baggies of bee pollen and flax seed meal to use in my next round. I am definitely on the same page as you about the cost and availability; however, the small scale of these fermentations, and not being required to still and actually drink any one of these trials, give me a license to play with seemingly bizarre adjuncts.
Killing time until my still build, I'm just having fun with the experimentation. Tomato paste, while not very nutritional for protein content, ferments about as fast as any of the plant adjuncts, and seems to produce a really clean tasting wash. I realize that the final judgement on taste requires distillation, but all in good time. I am not really looking for a 'magic formula', but rather what works for me. The four or five hour setup and every eight hour data taking is getting a little old, but it keeps me off the streets, and once stilling is underway, there won't be much motive to play around like this.
Sex is like mowing my lawn. I hate it, but it's the only exercise I get.
Re: sugar wash trials
"Been looking for a method to make soybean into something..."
soybeans are rather low in carbs (30%) so it take a lot to git little return.even if mashed..
the only other thing is to roast them and use as a flavoring,that is if you care for gram flavored drink.
soybeans are rather low in carbs (30%) so it take a lot to git little return.even if mashed..
the only other thing is to roast them and use as a flavoring,that is if you care for gram flavored drink.
Re: sugar wash trials
Thanks...I may just grab some toasted ones and some raw/dry cracks run it like an UJSM? Just curious what the flavor will turn out to be.
Thanks for the input
Thanks for the input
Re: sugar wash trials
try it it will satisfy your curiosity if nothing else
Re: sugar wash trials
You should be, that's what advances the craft, you may not find the next new thing but these types of experiments are what helps us all get better product and any new advance helps everyone. I am a big believer inmogur wrote:I'm really not trying to 'one up' the tried and true recipes.
I have used bee pollen on my traditional meads and it "seems" to produce a nice drink without any off flavors. Of course, I have not specifically tested it in controlled testing.mogur wrote:bee pollen
Current Evolution:
MrDistiller > 2" potstill > copper 4" perf 4 plate flute
"I seal the lid with Silly Putty, that's OK ain't it ?"
~ kekedog13
"Attach a vibrator to it and hang it upside down. Let it work"
~Mr. P
MrDistiller > 2" potstill > copper 4" perf 4 plate flute
"I seal the lid with Silly Putty, that's OK ain't it ?"
~ kekedog13
"Attach a vibrator to it and hang it upside down. Let it work"
~Mr. P
Re: sugar wash trials
So, here is my next venture.
trial four
200 I_TP/BY tomato paste 16 boiled ADY 4 221
200 II_BWG/BY boiled wheat germ 16 boiled ADY 4 221
200 III_TP/AY tomato paste 16 autolyzed ADY 4 221
200 IV_SW/AY soy flour wash 16 autolyzed ADY 4 221
200 V_SP/F/BP soy protein wash 12 flaxseed 4 bee pollen 4 221
200 VI_WG/N/M raw wheat germ 16 nutritional yeast 2 Marmite 2 221
200 VII_BWG/N/M boiled wheat germ 16 nutritional yeast 2 Marmite 2 221
200 VIII_K/N/M dry kidney beans 16 nutritional yeast 2 Marmite 2 221
200 IX_SW/N/M soy flour wash 16 nutritional yeast 2 Marmite 2 221
maybe that did not translate... but if anyone wants a special wash, just let me know....
trial four
200 I_TP/BY tomato paste 16 boiled ADY 4 221
200 II_BWG/BY boiled wheat germ 16 boiled ADY 4 221
200 III_TP/AY tomato paste 16 autolyzed ADY 4 221
200 IV_SW/AY soy flour wash 16 autolyzed ADY 4 221
200 V_SP/F/BP soy protein wash 12 flaxseed 4 bee pollen 4 221
200 VI_WG/N/M raw wheat germ 16 nutritional yeast 2 Marmite 2 221
200 VII_BWG/N/M boiled wheat germ 16 nutritional yeast 2 Marmite 2 221
200 VIII_K/N/M dry kidney beans 16 nutritional yeast 2 Marmite 2 221
200 IX_SW/N/M soy flour wash 16 nutritional yeast 2 Marmite 2 221
maybe that did not translate... but if anyone wants a special wash, just let me know....
Last edited by mogur on Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sex is like mowing my lawn. I hate it, but it's the only exercise I get.
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- Rumrunner
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Re: sugar wash trials
Is there any chance you could do a straight boiled yeast trial? Something on the order of 8-10 grams of boiled yeast in a 1500 ml batch?mogur wrote:So, here is my next venture.
trial four
200 I_TP/BY tomato paste 16 boiled ADY 4 221
200 II_BWG/BY boiled wheat germ 16 boiled ADY 4 221
200 III_TP/AY tomato paste 16 autolyzed ADY 4 221
200 IV_SW/AY soy flour wash 16 autolyzed ADY 4 221
200 V_SP/F/BP soy protein wash 12 flaxseed 4 bee pollen 4 221
200 VI_WG/N/M raw wheat germ 16 nutritional yeast 2 Marmite 2 221
200 VII_BWG/N/M boiled wheat germ 16 nutritional yeast 2 Marmite 2 221
200 VIII_K/N/M dry kidney beans 16 nutritional yeast 2 Marmite 2 221
200 IX_SW/N/M soy flour wash 16 nutritional yeast 2 Marmite 2 221
maybe that did not translate... but if anyone wants a special wash, just let me know.... I think my dog is the bestest, the brightest, the most loyal ever known. I am not drunk, so maybe i am... who's gonna judge?
I'm not sure how the pH of your water is, but if needed, maybe toss in a dash of lemon/lime/orange juice to get the pH down below, say, 6?
I've been using straight boiled yeast trub for nutrients, but I would love to know how that would compare to some of your other trials.
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Re: sugar wash trials
Sure thing, Bob, if you don't mind me bumping it up to 16 grams per liter, to keep all the trials similar in weight of adjuncts.
[Edit: I guess 20 grams/liter is equivalent, not 16. Well, let me know what you think, I'm autolyzing yeast today and will begin this trial Tuesday. As for pH, I was acidifying the washes at first to about 5 or 6, but the last trials started high (most about 6.8 pH), but quickly dropped to under 4 or 5... so I'm not acidifying up front because I want keep them as close to five as possible. My water by itself is about 7.6 pH.]
Here's an update on that sluggish soy protein trial. Looks like the added DAP/FermK did the trick, after all. Surprising, because I have read that inorganic nutrients aren't supposed to be assimilated by yeast in the late stages of fermentation. Live and learn.
[Edit: I guess 20 grams/liter is equivalent, not 16. Well, let me know what you think, I'm autolyzing yeast today and will begin this trial Tuesday. As for pH, I was acidifying the washes at first to about 5 or 6, but the last trials started high (most about 6.8 pH), but quickly dropped to under 4 or 5... so I'm not acidifying up front because I want keep them as close to five as possible. My water by itself is about 7.6 pH.]
Here's an update on that sluggish soy protein trial. Looks like the added DAP/FermK did the trick, after all. Surprising, because I have read that inorganic nutrients aren't supposed to be assimilated by yeast in the late stages of fermentation. Live and learn.
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Re: sugar wash trials
Papain comes from papayas so that may be an avenue to investigate.mogur wrote: Anyone got any extra papain? It's the most effective protease for yeast, but Adolf's stopped putting it in their meat tenderizer.
I know usually it is extracted from the latex "juice" made by scoring papaya trees and fruit, but I know from experience that there is a lot of it in the fruit itself. I use papaya in marinades and it does a bang up job without store bought enzyme.
Dried, fresh, or juiced papaya all work in my food recipes so it might be interesting to do a few trials like yours with the various preparations.
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Re: sugar wash trials
Super, sounds good to me. Looking forward to seeing how it comes out. Thanks, mogur.mogur wrote:Sure thing, Bob, if you don't mind me bumping it up to 16 grams per liter, to keep all the trials similar in weight of adjuncts.
[Edit: I guess 20 grams/liter is equivalent, not 16. Well, let me know what you think, I'm autolyzing yeast today and will begin this trial Tuesday. As for pH, I was acidifying the washes at first to about 5 or 6, but the last trials started high (most about 6.8 pH), but quickly dropped to under 4 or 5... so I'm not acidifying up front because I want keep them as close to five as possible. My water by itself is about 7.6 pH.]
Read about Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe.
Download Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe in pdf format.
Read About How to Malt Barley (or Wheat) for Beer (or Whisky/Whiskey)
Download Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe in pdf format.
Read About How to Malt Barley (or Wheat) for Beer (or Whisky/Whiskey)
Re: sugar wash trials
Thanks, Dave. I just ordered some liquid papain for future use. It's a commercial meat tenderizer, but without any added sugar, salt, or flavors. Don't know the concentration, but should be able to get in the ballpark with a trial or two. The studies I have read say that about 2-3% papain is the most effective concentration for enzyme hydrolysis of yeast.DavidWatkins wrote: Papain comes from papayas so that may be an avenue to investigate.
I know usually it is extracted from the latex "juice" made by scoring papaya trees and fruit, but I know from experience that there is a lot of it in the fruit itself. I use papaya in marinades and it does a bang up job without store bought enzyme.
Dried, fresh, or juiced papaya all work in my food recipes so it might be interesting to do a few trials like yours with the various preparations.
Have some yeast autolysing now. Just rigged up a water bath with my crockpot and a temp controller. I'm heating a yeast slurry to 52 degrees C for 24 hours and letting the yeast's endogenous enzymes do their magic. Papain should double the yield, though.
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Re: sugar wash trials
My pleasure, thanks for the suggestion. I've revised the list to better compare apples to oranges-Buccaneer Bob wrote: Super, sounds good to me. Looking forward to seeing how it comes out. Thanks, mogur.
boiled ADY | 8 (g/L) | ||||
autolyzed ADY | 8 | ||||
soy protein wash | 12 | flaxseed meal | 4 (g/L) | bee pollen | 4 (g/L) |
tomato paste | 16 | autolyzed ADY | 4 | ||
soy flour wash | 16 | autolyzed ADY | 4 | ||
raw wheat germ | 16 | nutritional yeast | 2 | Marmite | 2 |
boiled wht germ | 16 | nutritional yeast | 2 | Marmite | 2 |
kidney bean meal | 16 | nutritional yeast | 2 | Marmite | 2 |
soy flour wash | 16 | nutritional yeast | 2 | Marmite | 2 |
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Re: sugar wash trials
Have not read this thread in detail.
But I am not surprised at the result with the Marmite washes.
Marmite, Promite and Vegemite are basically the same stuff with slight flavour differences, and they are excellent nutrition sources for yeast, mainly B vitamins and lipids, I think. I use Vegemite in all my ferments.
1 generous-ish teaspoon in 60 litres.
••••••••
mogur:
Any possibility you could post a much higher resolution version of this chart? I can't read it. Thanks.
But I am not surprised at the result with the Marmite washes.
Marmite, Promite and Vegemite are basically the same stuff with slight flavour differences, and they are excellent nutrition sources for yeast, mainly B vitamins and lipids, I think. I use Vegemite in all my ferments.
1 generous-ish teaspoon in 60 litres.
••••••••
mogur:
Any possibility you could post a much higher resolution version of this chart? I can't read it. Thanks.
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Re: sugar wash trials
Not sure why the pdf file is crappy, they used to post fine here. Anyway, I spreadsheet in Google Drive, so I downloaded to Open Document format, then zipped in both ods and xls format. Hope it translates for ya.HookLine wrote:mogur:
Any possibility you could post a much higher resolution version of this chart? I can't read it. Thanks.
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