Proper condensory sizing for column pot still

[GasLamp]

Looking for advice on how to properly size the condenser for my rig. I am working in large part of the parent site calculator page:
http://homedistiller.org/calcs/cond_calc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

My rig has a three foot 2in column, necks over to a double coiled "Nixon-type" condenser. The condenser is 19 feet of 1/4inch copper that I hook up to a hose. When running the water input is cool/cold and the output is warm not hot. I guess about 10C in and 40C out, but that is rough and depends on flow rate. The tricky part is the boiler. I run off a turkey frier rated at a max of 50,000 BTU. I worked it out to about equal to 15,000 W. But during the run I never have it on full tilt, much closer to half power.

According to the calculator, at half power ~18 feet should do it. But when running I always see some vapor escape the output nipple, unless I run very slowly. Thoughts? I am really concerned about blow-by vapor, but the output is warm, not hot to the touch. Feel free to look up the pic I posted of my rig, you can see how the condenser is a tee, so most of the coils are above the point that vapor enters. I am thinking of connecting the output nipple to 2 foot 1/2OD jacket condenser to catch everything.

Thanks for any advice.

[Durace11]

If 18 ft should do it at half power and you have 19 ft you are basically running the minimum length @ half your burner power or half your minimum condenser length at full power. I'd say you are in need of an upgrade. As long as you are upgrading, IMO you should figure out length for a liebig for full power, add 10-20% and build that. That gives you the option to go full power on stripping runs and have 10-20% breathing room to not over power your condenser.

I'm guessing that the reason it's letting vapor escape is because the calculator is based on the coil being the nominal size ID and when you bend it it flattened thereby reducing the cooling power. So, you may have 19 ft but in actuallity it is acting as 16 ft or whatever. Love the parrot btw.

[GasLamp]

So I checked- a liebig condenser is just a jacket type condenser correct? I used the parent site calculator and for the same input and output temperatures, to build a 1inch diameter tube condenser it would still be to be 3.5 meters if used alone. That still seems like gross overkill- I have never seen anyone on this site use such huge condensers. If I take the liebig after the coil, which I will likely do, I can cut it down to 1.7 meters, still very large. What am I missing...or does using a turkey frier really up the power on the boiler and throw off the usual designs? I may try to get a good estimate of the boiler power by timing how long it takes to bring 20L of water to boil. Then I could estimate the true Wattage I use while running.

[anderson0196]

Not saying its wrong but I couldn't make heads or tails of the calculator either....I think it called for me to have a 10' Liebig.

I wound up going with a 40" Liebig which seems oversized compared to others I have seen on here running successfully.


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[GasLamp]

Thanks for the feedback anderson0196- happy to hear others find it problematic. How have most people here been sizing their condensers?
So I ran an experiment and crunched some numbers, hopefully people will have some feedback (either on the math or the overall finding). I measurement the power output of my Bayou Classic turkey frier by heating 4 gallons of water and timing how long it took the water to rise 30C in temperature. The frier was advertised as 55,000 BTU of power, which is ~15,000 Watts.

1. I heated ~4 gallons of water from 34-64C over a time interval of 17 minutes.
2. W=J/s
3. Q=mCpdT=(14.8kg)(4186J/kgK)(30)=1.86E6 J
4. W=1,822.
5. 1W=3.4 Btu/hr
6. 1,822W=6,200 BTu/hr

This is substantially under the so-called 55,000 BTu output of the frier. If my unit conversions are correct, which I think they are, either my burner is f*ed or the frier puts out no where near 55kBTU. My burner also runs very sooty...I get caked on soot on the bottom of my pot. So it is possible that so much soot has built up inside the burner that it is not burning properly and I just can't see it?

I recommend other people do this experiment and we can compare.

[bellybuster]

If your. Burner produces soot it needs more oxygen. Quite often spiders and such will crawl into the burner and nest. Try cleaning it out and see if that solves your soot problem

[rad14701]

If you aren't seeing vapor escape out the reflux condenser section then the reflux condenser is doing its job adequately... If you are seeing vapor coming off your product as it exits the still then you need a product condenser which is quite common on liquid management stills... I'd go with a graham condenser, or an almost horizontal liebig... A vertical liebig cooling liquid is rather inadequate due to the vertical orientation...

Remember, the reflux condenser is only collapsing the vapor into liquid, not really cooling it further... If that liquid spirits hits a different environment it can very easily trigger an exothermic reaction with some of the mixture returning to vapor form again... The product condenser resolves this problem...