Does a boka need cooling on the take off tube?

[BentJar]

I ran my new boka build yesterday with vinigar for 2 hours, and then a sacrificial run of old feints. Great step up in my hobby and many hours of reading , study and preperation.
The 10 inch double wound works great, I have no thermometer anywhere in the sysytem and use touch and feel to run the still. Pot still experience. The product comes out warm but not steaming. I made a 12 inch worm to hook up to my needle valve pointing straight down into the collection jar. It is air cooled.
I have a coooling manifold with another port and Im ready to add a liebig to the take off but I dont see the need to hook it up.

What I want to know is can I leave it as is or proceed with the cooling system for the take off?


Bentjar

[oakback]

From what I've read, most people add one of they're using a parrot. I don't use a parrot, and I don't have a product cooler. I've never had a problem with mine.

Once it gets into the tails though, it can get quite hot. I just empty my jar before it fills up (so the neck is still cool), or use a glove.

[smokindave]

I built a small liebig for mine. It is only 12" long, and works well. I do use a parrot, so it made sense. That stuff does come out pretty hot without it. I was even getting some vapor sputtering out of my takeoff initially, towards the tails end of things. For the small amount of build effort involved, a small liebig works wonders though. My cooling system is all hooked up through quickconnect air fittings, so it is a snap to assemble and clean out also.

I think your long run of air-cooled takeoff tube would work just fine also. You can always re-design later if you want.

Otherwise, your soldering skills might deteriorate......

SmokinDave

[johnhopper1957]

There is absolutely no "need" for a Liebig on a boka, that said if you "want" one on there go for it....

[BentJar]

Ran the Boka again today while making heat and cooling adjustments. Studying the thing, It used about 10 gallons of city water to cool it running 4 hours
IF I run it slow say 3-4 drips a sec., the product is just a tad warm. This will work fine for me . First Qt. was 85 % ABV.
the highest ever on my pot still was 70 %. So, its true what they said about a Boka turning out some hot licker. All my pot still copper is overthere in a pile of parts, I took the keg connector and union off for the Boka. the big old worm barrel , its around behind the shed. No sign of a nerry-do-well living here
Dont look so ilegal anymore.

I have the copper scrubbers coming from Brewhaus, how should they be prepped before going into the colume? I made a friction ring of 1/4 copper tubing to hold them up into the colume. Will that work?

Bent

[rad14701]

Most LM reflux columns will benefit from having a product condenser because the "liquid" is going to be hot... CM and VM designs already have product condensers so it's a non-issue with them... I've only run an LM once without a product condenser and won't ever do it again because I lost too much alcohol as vapor...

Perhaps johnhopper1957 would like to quantify his wisdom regarding the subject based on personal experience... My wisdom tells me that if the spirits exit the still too hot there could be an exothermic reaction which could cause at least a portion of the liquid spirits to return to vapor state... Therefore, stating that there is absolutely no need is just plain bad advice... And bad advice is worse than no advice at all...

[Bushman]

Most LM reflux columns will benefit from having a product condenser because the "liquid" is going to be hot... CM and VM designs already have product condensers so it's a non-issue with them... I've only run an LM once without a product condenser and won't ever do it again because I lost too much alcohol as vapor...

Perhaps johnhopper1957 would like to quantify his wisdom regarding the subject based on personal experience... My wisdom tells me that if the spirits exit the still too hot there could be an exothermic reaction which could cause at least a portion of the liquid spirits to return to vapor state... Therefore, stating that there is absolutely no need is just plain bad advice... And bad advice is worse than no advice at all...

I stated similar feelings in another thread and my preference for a product condenser, glad to see we are on the same page.

[myles]

Look at it this way:

On an LM you have 1 coil that condenses your reflux and you then take off a sample as product. If your product is cool so is the liquid going back into the column. Now this is not a good idea, so you should really expect your product to be hot. That means you are probably going to need some sort of cooling.

Your product does not need to be cold but you certainly want it cool enough that it is not creating a zone of flammable vapour above your collection jar. Now how you do it is up to you, but there is a good chance that the cold supply to your reflux condenser is probably passing by in the vicinity of your product output.

It seems logical to just divert your coolant a bit, and use the coolant to cool the product first before it goes to your reflux condenser.

[smokindave]

I really like the way my product condenser works now, but I do need to re-plumb my coolant. I currently run to my reflux condenser first because of how I built it initially. I need to swap fittings and run to my product liebig first to get the coldest water there first. Seems to work the other way okay, but I am sure that the end of my runs are getting a little warm due to the column temp getting up there. I almost wish I would have built a graham condenser for this, as I made my liebig a little small because of weight hanging off the column. Hindsight IS 20/20, and copper is pricey.

I recycle about 40 gallons of 40*F water with a submersible pump, so it usually stays pretty cool on a 6 gallon stripping charge or less. If I start doing a 10 gallon run, I have a feeling I might need to add some fresh water part way through to keep the coolant temp down. I have actually floated some frozen jugs in my tank, but that is a pain and takes up a lot of deep freeze space.

[johnhopper1957]

Most LM reflux columns will benefit from having a product condenser because the "liquid" is going to be hot... CM and VM designs already have product condensers so it's a non-issue with them... I've only run an LM once without a product condenser and won't ever do it again because I lost too much alcohol as vapor...

Perhaps johnhopper1957 would like to quantify his wisdom regarding the subject based on personal experience... My wisdom tells me that if the spirits exit the still too hot there could be an exothermic reaction which could cause at least a portion of the liquid spirits to return to vapor state... Therefore, stating that there is absolutely no need is just plain bad advice... And bad advice is worse than no advice at all...

Obviously you would no better because you are awesome. Anyone who does not have a method of cooling product as it comes off your still you need to do it before your next run as a matter of urgency or else...... Because you should...... Or you may loose 0.2% due to warm product evaporating because it comes off warm.

[BentJar]

OK..so today I built a liebig cooling system for the take off. Mayby I need it for doing a stripping run fast and hot. Anyway its nice to have it on there. Now Im having visions of a stand alone parott.
My Boka is finnished,,,clean,,,,and waiting on the mash.
I knew exactly how to build it and how to plumb the water properly because I have read from this great site the proper way.

I would send a picture if I could figure out how to do it. Other forum I belong to dont need no resizing.

thanks for the information and willingness to help.
Bent

[myles]

On the picture issue I just use the resize option on paint. Often this is just to get the file size down to acceptable limits and is not so much about the pixel count. I usually resize to the pixel count 600 x 800 but sometimes the file is still too big.

On the cooling issue - you don't have to use a product cooler. You can run your reflux coil so that your product comes off at a reasonable temperature. Unfortunately, the consequence is that your reflux going into the column is at the same temperature. It will work just fine - it is just not very efficient.

In an ideal world you want your reflux hot - but it is not essential. Having cooler reflux just increases your power consumption and makes your column slightly less efficient.

[BentJar]

I have 2 seperate cooling sysytems running from a repurposed Auto air conditioner maniflod set. The cooling flow to my liebig on the take off has nothing to do with the reflux cooling. I can control the two individually . However, this did not give me the small amount of control I wanted, thus the needle valves installed on the return side of each one. What would you call a design like this.
Im going to work on the picture thing.

Bent