Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

[Dnderhead]

yes you can

[Devonhomebrew]

sweet also wound yeast energizer be good oh and where can i get good distillers yeast?

[Jack Straw]

A quick newbie question. I made about 25 gallons of this wash, and it's been clearing quite well. My question, if I filter out the yeast and remaining gunk before running, will this help decrease the amount of garbage in the initial and final parts of the run? I figure heating dead yeast cells and other "remainders" have to contribute to some of the taste and smell that comes over when distilling, or am I just over thinking the entire process?

[Ghost]

I would let it settle really good - maybe cold crash it and then rack the cleared portion off the top and try not to disturb the trub at the bottom.

[reckless kelly]

my second batch of this is staying on same time as my first, I started it last Sat and it is now just about done.
Im gonna do 4 of these as stripping runs and then a spirit run.

Thanks.

[bwpz]

Can I use this for the DAP and the epsom salts? Would I need to buy Citric Acid along with this? Would pH stabilizers be good to use?

http://www.homebrewing.org/Yeast-Energi ... p_379.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Contains Diammonium phosphate, yeast hulls, magnesium sulphate, & Vitamin B Complex.

[bwpz]

Can I use this for the DAP and the epsom salts? Would I need to buy Citric Acid along with this? Would pH stabilizers be good to use?

http://www.homebrewing.org/Yeast-Energi ... p_379.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Contains Diammonium phosphate, yeast hulls, magnesium sulphate, & Vitamin B Complex.

So if I use that product will I need to use Citric Acid still? I think I could use 2 tsp of that product and be good, less the Citric Acid?

[Devonhomebrew]

On my dap bag it recommends using 1 tsp per gallon. Does this recipe finish out nicely?

[reckless kelly]

On my dap bag it recommends using 1 tsp per gallon. Does this recipe finish out nicely?

devon,
If you follow the receipt , and take SG after mixing all but yeast(under 95F), then again when its done(This may very , but I get 7 days to finsh every time I have made it.)One went to 8 or 9 days , but temp comes into play , and we had swings that week.

For me , I consistently get a SG of 1.045 to 1.055 before and .995 after 7 days.
Clear it and run it.
i am still learning , but for me I get the same results basically each time.

Good Luck

[SanDiegoShiner]

All,

I have brewed beer all grain for 20+ years. I have decided to give distilling a go.

So, from my brewing experience I know that the slower your ferment the less fusel alcohols that are created. Normally in beer it creates a smother alcohol and we try to maintain lower temps even with ale yeast. To a point. 68 f or so. Also, I know that in beer, certain strains of yeast create a drier beer based on their attenuation. I also know that some yeast drop out of liquid better than others. This is there flocculation rate.

So, here is my question. I used to love to use Nottingham dry yeast because it would create a very clean dry beer often .998 or so. Also, it would drop completely out in a day or two with no chilling. And you never needed a starter. I would throw one pack in a 10 gallon batch of 1.070 beer.

Has anyone tried this yeast in a sugar wash. I assume it may be slower to ferment but may create a cleaner tasting final product. Anyone have any input from a distillers point of view.

Thanks for your feedback. Obviously still learning.

[DaveZ]

I have 2 x 25 litre batches of this fermenting along side 2 x 25 litre batches of birdwatchers recipe. This recipe is fermenting a lot slower than the birdwatchers two. Both had the same starting sg of 1.090 and the same amount of the same bakers yeast pitched, kept in the same temps, yet the birdwatchers is now on 1.005 after about 4 days and the wineos is about 1.050. All fermenters are still bubbling, so nothing has stalled. Just wondering if this recipe is normally a slow fermenter and why that would be, given that the only real difference between the two is the nutrients for the yeast.

Cheers,
Dave.

[reckless kelly]

If you read through the posts you will see its a double edge sword.
Its very clean , so there is only enough nutrients and yeast to get the job done.

I get a 7 day turn around almost every time.
I just racked a 6 gallon batch , started at 1.055 and finised at .950

I have not tried anythin but this receipt and I find it consistent and forgiving.
But others have seen stalling , but I have not.

Cheers

[DaveZ]

Thanks mate. Mine hasn't stalled either, they are still bubbling along okay and the sg is slowly dropping. I doubt I'll see a 7 day turn around but might not be too far off it. Was just interested in why the big difference in times given the similarity of the recipes, the tomato paste must just give the yeast a bit more of a kick along than the DAP.

Cheers,
Dave.

[ttayw]

I have been reading all the comments about WPOSW. Sounds like a really good recipe to start with. In the posts Wineo always stresses the importance of keeping the initial SG of the wash @ 1080 or below. Could you explain the significance of that #, and how do you contol the SG of the wash? Thanks M

[braemar]

Hi ttayw,
The sg is specific gravity and is controlled mainly by the ratio of water to sugar in the wash read under the wash section in the parent site or look up a forum topic relating to the starting sg of a wash.
Regards
Braemar

[DaveZ]

Additionally to that, a higher starting SG will lead to a higher finishing alcohol content. Higher alcohol contents can stress yeasts and introduce bad flavours to the alcohol, hence the recommendation of lower starting SG.

[ttayw]

Thanks that helps. I'm starting to get the idea. Mike

[Slowninja]

Seein how there's 62 pages to thumb through I'm just going to ask, has anyone tried using backset to dissolve their sugar for the next batch?

[reckless kelly]

Slowninja-
I have not , but was thinking the same thing.
But I am not sure what it would gain by doing so, but Im still new so ........
Perhaps a master will give us the skinny on why or why not

[frozenthunderbolt]

Slowninja-
I have not , but was thinking the same thing.
But I am not sure what it would gain by doing so, but Im still new so ........
Perhaps a master will give us the skinny on why or why not

not a Master but happy to chime in.

You could use hot backset to disolve your sugar, you might even get some bonus nutrients from it.
BUT
- It will also make the wash more acid and thus need some PH adjustment - Wineos has a greater tendency to stall due to PH than other washes IMHO
- It will give the wash more flavour - this is a bit pointless in this wash as Wineos is designed to produce a neutral that is as tasteless as possible.

So to sum up, you can, but will need to add calcium carbonate to balance PH and may get more (unpleasant?) flavour

[Slowninja]

The idea would be, less energy used. The water is already (basically) boiling, which will dissolve sugar great.

Otherwise, you'd have to bring some new clean water to temperature to dissolve the sugar.

Not so sure about flavor.. If you have water and alcohol, and fraction off the alcohol, shouldn't you basically have water left?

[reckless kelly]

after a long run , (6 gallons takes at least 6 hours or more on my reflux) the last thing I want to do is start a wash.
I have to run at night or on the weekend and from start to finish is a task to say the least.
And with WPOSW designed as a nuetral , taste is not what i shoot for, but lack there of. (still working on cuts myself and have a long way to go)

So really nothing to gain? thats still open to discussion.
But was a valid question for me too.
Thanks for posting and responses

[Mr.Brown]

The backset from this smells like shit. I use wposw because i want a nice clean nutural. Dont think id add it back to the next wash. sugar will desolve pretty good in just warm water, you just have to stir it a bit..

[Harley Wolf]

I'm sure I'll get flack for this post. When I finish with UJSM, I save all the backset and the spent corn I remove, I use 1 gal of backset in WPOSW and 1 qt spent corn to each 4 gal batch. After I rack off I rince the corn and run it thru a blender and add to a batch of BirdWatcher. This way I use the corn in three different batches. I reflux everything and usually get 94% to 93% of a very nice smooth shine. I normally cut to 55% for straight drinking or 60% if I'm blending in flavors. This is not so much for flavor but seems to speed up the fermantation, extra nurt. I quess. On BW I even throw in 2 cups of Sweet Feed pellets, that really speeds things up.

[Kal]

Hey all. I just racked my first attempt at this recipe and have a few useful hints and a question. First off the well water I used happened to be very alkaline at about 7 to 7.5ph. I wasn't aware of that when I started and it resulted in a stuck ferment. Anyway I did a quadruple batch and followed the recipe to the letter with the exception of the gypsum. 24 gal. water, 32 lbs. sugar, 4 tsp. citric acid and DAP, and 1/2 tsp. Epsom salts as well as 1 cup of bakers yeast. I measured the sugar and water on an old digital hospital scale that reads 10ths and the total weight of the barrel was 227.8 lbs. It bubbled slowly for a couple of days and stopped. I stirred it and added more yeast, bubbled slowly for a day and quit again. I discovered my PH problem and added 6 more tsp. of citric acid and got into the 5 range, stirred the crap out of it and added another cup of yeast. It took off like a rocket. I did this batch with PH test strips and have recently bought a digital meter. Since it was 65 degrees in the ferment room I wrapped it with an electric blanket and it went a bit faster yet at 80 to 85 degrees. Took 4 days of hard bubbling and 3 of tapering off to a trickle. Interesting thing, upon completion of fermenting the barrel weighed 211.4 lbs. A loss of 16.4 lbs. My question is, can I measure alcohol conversion by weight? I wasn't too accurate when I measured specific gravity when I started but it was close to 1.060 (corrected) and finished at.990. Anyway it's clearing now, gonna clean out my new still pretty soon! (GRIN)

Old Fart in the wind

Interesting observation with the weight. Since half the sugar gets converted to alcohol, and the other half gets converted to carbon dioxide, then I suppose you could work out how the conversion is progressing through weight monitoring. If you lost 16.4lbs from 32lbs of sugar, then it would indicate a completed fermentation.

[Raging56]

Well, I did this recipe last night to the letter. However, I used most of my 6 gallons of water before I checked the SG. I noticed I was off and I needed to add more sugar (5 pounds more) to get to a SG of 1070. I hope that is ok...
For yeast I used LALVIN EC-1118 and I see after the fact that it isn't the favorite for the recipe.

So far I have it split into 2 buckets. The room is 72* and it only took about 2 hours for me to see some movement out of the airlocks. The next day I'm still getting movement form the airlocks every 10 seconds or less I see a bubble or two.

My question is...will I be ok? I can get some bakers yeast..OR, I have distillers yeast that should be showing up in the next day or so. Should I add that or just wait it out? So, I adding more sugar than called for. Is that going to be a problem even tho my SG seems to be where its supposed to be to start?

I've only done about 4 runs in the past and they have all been with turbos. this is my first attempt in trying to make a really clean product. Please advise if I'm ok, or if I should take some steps to make any corrections.

Thanks in advance!

[rad14701]

My question is...will I be ok? I can get some bakers yeast..OR, I have distillers yeast that should be showing up in the next day or so. Should I add that or just wait it out? So, I adding more sugar than called for. Is that going to be a problem even tho my SG seems to be where its supposed to be to start?

All of my washes are done when the airlock activity is that sporadic, so yours is way slow... Is it too cold..??? Unlike turbo washes, most sugar washes should be kept at 75F - 85F to insure the yeast colony remains at peak activity levels...

More sugar will only extend the fermentation time... You're pretty close now to adding 3 additional days for every additional 1% potential ABV... Don't add more...

And more yeast usually isn't the solution... Either heat, aeration, nutrients, or a combination... If the conditions are right the yeast colony will multiply to the required density... But if you have some lazy poor performing yeast that's another story...

[Raging56]

Well, here is my mini update....I agree its going a little slow from what I'm used to. I'm getting one bubble every 7 seconds in the air lock. I have my batch in the furnace room (warmest room in the house) its 75* in there right now. Ill try to think of a way to warm it up.

So, my question is what should I do now? Out of the original recipe I do have extra ingredients...what should I add more of and how much? I also bought some bakers yeast today just in case I need to add that.

Please advise...

Thanks!

[zero]

Well, here is my mini update....I agree its going a little slow from what I'm used to. I'm getting one bubble every 7 seconds in the air lock. I have my batch in the furnace room (warmest room in the house) its 75* in there right now. Ill try to think of a way to warm it up.

So, my question is what should I do now? Out of the original recipe I do have extra ingredients...what should I add more of and how much? I also bought some bakers yeast today just in case I need to add that.

Please advise...

Thanks!

I have done this recipe 5 times now, and while I'm no expert, I can give you a few pointers.

First off, be patient. If you get too crazy you could foul the batch. As far as the champagne yeast is concerned... I made that mistake (among others) with my first batch of WPOSW, and it took almost a month to finish. The slow takeoff could also be attributed to the other factors that Rad already mentioned, so it would be in your best interest to check all those before you attempt anything else. On the plus side, you could have a really clean product in the end, because it is a champagne yeast... it'll just take awhile.

I'll say that since I switched to distiller's yeast, I see a completed ferment in about 6-9 days. Once the process is done, I siphon down to about that last inch of liquid in the carboy, that way the yeast isn't getting disturbed too much. On the next batch, I only add a couple of teaspoons to account for the stuff that got siphoned out of the carboy during the racking process. You'll see a much faster takeoff if you reuse your yeast, and a faster ferment.

Edit: you could add distiller's yeast to the mix, but check for problems before you throw more yeast into the mix.

[Raging56]

Edit: you could add distiller's yeast to the mix, but check for problems before you throw more yeast into the mix.

I'm glad you said that....I was worried. I did add a little more DAP (nutrient) 1tsp. I also added a 1/4 cup distillers yeast and I mixed it up and put it in front of the heater in my house. After about 2 hours it looked like it was on the move...1 bubble from the air lock every 3 seconds. However, it has slowed down since then to about 1 bubble every 5-6 seconds. it is moving...but I can tell this will be a slow process.

I'm tracking down some food grade buckets to start another run. Hopefully this one will be ok. I will check the SG in a few days to see where I'm at.

The only thing I didn't do is test the PH level. I did use well water and I think that is the only thing that could be an issue. BUT, if its bubbling then its doing its thing. Ill have to just relax and realize unlike turbos this will take a little time

Thanks for the reply...Ill see how this goes and Ill be sure to report back.