Pacus wrote:I thought I read that it was supposed to be 8%.. maybe I was wrong? lol
na, bourbon recipes (with corn) are hard to get above the 1040's, but they do continue to convert while theyre fermenting on the grain too. Lower ABV's are typical for AG mashes. Its all good. Sounds like you did good.
I must have missed this earlier in this long , long thread..But happy to read the lower ABV..I thought I was juts experiencing by own "first timers " adjustments...
About to throw together my second batch in preparation ...I will confess that I did not have any 6 row malt on hand for my first batch so I added 3 tabs of Beano..
Got 3 pounds of 6 row now and a fresh sack of corn!!
Yup some of the other old hats chimed in earlier and said high 1040's is about the best they can do too with corn bourbon recipes too. I think, based on the yields I get tho, after it ferments on the grain, the effective gravity might be closer to 1060 area. Just a guess tho. I dont spend too much time worrying about it at $10 for 50 lbs of corn.
Guess what Im gonna turn this into... Lower protein on this bag at 7% than previous bags. Good for us bourbon makers,... um. I mean chicken feeders... ya that.
rubber duck wrote:Hmmm are you double distilling it? Small single runs of corn on a pot still can sometimes be kinda ick.
I don't boil it after adding the malt and you definitely don't want to bring the mash ph level up before you distill it, that might cause ammonia. A week isn't to long I do that all the time.
It's probably not the fermentation temp being to high.
What are you using for yeast and how much are you using? If there's a problem I suspect this could be it.
Just been reading through the second page of this and noticed you said it might cause ammonia. I dont see how ammonia would be caused by fermentation. Seeing as ammonia is NH3 and ethanol is H6C2O and all alcohols are under that sort of structure. Where does the nitrogen come from?
Hi everyone..I think I've got a batch of this bubbling but this recipe is not for the impatient. The first one I started Friday night I must have completely bombed. I left it in the cooler over night to continue mashing and I woke up to a sour.. red nasty taste. Figured I need more reading and just tossed it.
I started another one on Sunday night.. doing things alittle more different. The pot that I have will only hold 7lbs of corn and three gallons of water. So I brought three gallons of water to a full boil and poured it on the corn. I let that simmer for alittle over an hour and it got much thicker then my first batch. I then poured the corn mixture and another gallon of boiling water into my cooler and let that sit over night.
Monday morning it was cream corn but the temp was about 140. I threw in some hot water and got the temp to around 149 and threw in the malted barley. I stirred it every twenty minutes for a couple hours and went to work. I came home during lunch and it was good and sweet.. not as sweet as a sugar wash but sweet. The temp was about 137 so I transferred it to my fermenting bucket and topped it off with water that I had boiled that morning.. it was about 100 degrees.
I got home from work and the temp was down to about 115. I got kinda worried though because it was was starting to get alittle sour. Not as sour as my first batch but still a sugar sour taste. I kept stirring it to air it out and bring the temp down and noticed that when it settled the sour kinda greasy stuff was all on top. There was about three inches of this stuff at the top of my 7 gallon bucket so I took about four cups out and tossed it. At about 11pm the temp was down to 100 so I pitched a package of Red Star bakers yeast... the SG was about 1.040. It's bubbling away this morning.. taking big breaths about every three seconds.
Couple questions...I've read about the sour taste.. some good and some bad. Does everyone's get alittle sour while it's cooling to pitch the yeast? Is the sour coming only because I'm letting it cool naturally? Second question is about malted rye. If you added that to the grain bill do you put it in with the barley or at a different point in the process?
Thanks for the recipe NChooch. I hope mine comes out as good as everyone else here.
Mine was as sour as lemonade while it was fermenting. So sour I thought it was infected, but it made the best damn whiskey I've ever made ever!!! I say don't worry about sour
I actually did a lacto souring of the corn before mashing it to be sure that it would be "a little" sour
NC,
thinking of trying your recipe in a double batch, well most of your recipe with what i have on hand. I have 7 kg flaked maize, 1 kg flaked rye, 2kg 6 row and 4.5 kg 2 row, both 2 row and 6 row are milled..
I was thinking of using 2kg 6row, 1/2 kg flaked rye, and 1kg 2 row, and 6.75 kg flaked maize - mashing the 2row/6 row first, then as temperature begins to drop adding in the flaked ingredients stirring occasionally and pitching the yeast after its under 35c.. hoping this would 3/4 or so fill a 58L boiler...
Is your standard recipe one that is capable of backsetting on the mash and reusing after initial ferment? or should it be all new grains every time?
For the same reasons that you use cracked corn versus whole corn , you must use crushed malt . Like Jimdo said, you should be able to buy it crushed from you local Homebrew store
NChooch
Practice safe distillin and keep your hobby under your hat.
rubber duck wrote:Hmmm are you double distilling it? Small single runs of corn on a pot still can sometimes be kinda ick.
I don't boil it after adding the malt and you definitely don't want to bring the mash ph level up before you distill it, that might cause ammonia. A week isn't to long I do that all the time.
It's probably not the fermentation temp being to high.
What are you using for yeast and how much are you using? If there's a problem I suspect this could be it.
Just been reading through the second page of this and noticed you said it might cause ammonia. I dont see how ammonia would be caused by fermentation. Seeing as ammonia is NH3 and ethanol is H6C2O and all alcohols are under that sort of structure. Where does the nitrogen come from?
Why? Yeast and yeast nutrient both contain lots of ammonium salts (like DAP), which are very stable under acidic conditions, but which release lots of ammonia as the approach neutral conditions. Actually, you will start getting ammonia at about pH 5! Ammonia gas is very corrosive to copper, and you will find your condenser coil packed up with blue crystals after such a run (and blue alcohol too !)
It forms in stills when ammonia released from alkaline washes (nitrogen source may be plant material or yeasts) reacts with copper hydroxide formed by the action of steam on copper oxides coating the inside of copper columns or components. It may be avoided by ensuring that the wash in the boiler is slightly acid (pH less than 7).
I'm on my second try of this recipe and I am obviously not doing something properly. I am only doing half batches, as I only have a 5gal fermenter. I didn't test the first mash before I cooked it, so I don't know what %ABV I began with, but running through my pot, I barely got a quart after heads. I didn't have the Prestige yeast at that time, so I just used the champagne yeast I had. With the yield being so low, I didn't think too much of it since I didn't have the proper yeast and just chalked it up to my own impatience.
I am fermenting a second batch that has been going for about 5 days. I did everything by the book, but used 1/2 volumes for a 1/2 batch. I used the correct yeast, but just tested with my beer/wine hydrometer and it read 0 potential. The wash is clearing up and the bubbling has slowed to about one bubble per minute through my S type airlock. To me, it looks about done, but I'm concerned at the reading.
The first day, the thing bubbled faster than I have ever seen before, but the next day it had settled down to about one bubble per 10 secs.
Trying to figure out what's going on and ultimately deciding that it just didn't have the sugar to run anymore, I dumped a cup of sugar in for SaG's and sure enough, the bubbler started humming again pretty quickly.
When I was cooking the corn, I didn't notice much of a sweetness to the mash until after about an hour of the barley being in it, then it tasted as if I had dumped a bunch of sugar in. I cooked the total mix for about 3 hours (1 for the corn and 2 with the barley added). I didn't have a cooler to put it in per the directions, but I do have a good digital thermometer with alarm that I set and never let it get over 150 while mashing with barley. After the 2 hours, I cheated and put 4 crushed Beano tabs in and let it set overnight before I mixed in the yeast and capped.
If someone can explain what's going on, I would greatly appreciate it. I am about to the point of just using sugar water or dumping a bunch of sugar into this mixture but would like to know what I'm doing wrong so that I can begin making some decent stuff.
*Also, I can definitely notice an alcohol smell from the airlock. Is it possible I'm losing my alcohol through the airlock?
cabinetguy, when you read a hydrometer for potential alcohol you have to take an initial reading, just before you pitch your yeast lets say your reading was 9% potential alcohol, if your conversion of starch to sugar was good and there aren't any unfermentables in your wash and you pitched enough yeast and they have done their job your ending potential alcohol will be 0%. Then you would subtract your ending potential from your starting potential and you have how much alcohol is in your wash (9% - 0% = 9% abv). Now that's a text book example in real life its hard to get an initial reading because the enzymes continue to convert starches to sugar long after your 2 hour mash session which will add to you potential alcohol. Personally I check the alcohol content in the wash by using a temp vs. purity chart, what temperature the vapor is at at the start of boil will tell you the percent of alcohol in your wash, and adjust the grain bill if needed on the next run.
In the year that I have been doing this and the hours of reading, research and trial and error I have learned that wash that is produced from a mash is what it is (given that it is a good recipe and this one is, Thank you NChooch) if you want more alcohol you have to start with more wash.
What you have described sounds pretty normal at the end of the ferment your potential alcohol by volume should be 0%. This hobby is a learning process that never ends and it can be quite frustrating at times but it sounds like your on the right track.
CabinetGuy wrote: I cooked the total mix for about 3 hours (1 for the corn and 2 with the barley added). I didn't have a cooler to put it in per the directions, but I do have a good digital thermometer with alarm that I set and never let it get over 150 while mashing with barley.
Looks like you didnt let the malt get over 150, good, but how did you cook the corn? Only 1 hour at 150? That wont gelatinize the corn enough. Some people boil the corn, thats too much constant stirring for my lazy ass. I boil the water first, then add the corn and stir for 10 minutes to get the temp back up near boiling, then shut off the heat and let the corn cook for 3+ hours wrapped up in an old blanket. Wrapped up good it will stay above 180 for 3+ hours.
Like 10ac says, its a learning process, and everyone finds their own ways and tricks to getting this done. No one way is better than any other. Looks like you did good tho, cheers!
sure 2 row is great, it just has less diastatic power. 130-150. 6 row is 160+. 2 row has higher ppg (good stuff for malting booze) just adjust your ratio to other non malt to get 30+ avg diastic power (DP)
I Start with 7 pounds of cracked corn, n cook in 4 gallons of good water for at least an hour (i usually go 90 mins) at a low simmer. ...careful not to burn it.
*optional - you may add a half pound of 6-row malted barley while cooking the corn to loosen it up a bit ( this is called pre-mashing) as it gets very thick.
Then cool to exactly 150f.
Pour into a large cooler (helps conserve heat during the mashing session)
Add 3 pounds of 6-row malted barley ...The temp should drop to approx 145f
...stir well every 15 mins, while you mash for 2-3 hours. Keep covered.
* Note: Don't add malted barley to the corn if it exceeds 155f! the enzymes will be denatured in short order and and you won't get no conversion.the mashing process requires that you keep the mash at 145f +/- 5f for the entire duration of the mash session which is why you use the insulated cooler.
*optional - If you want, you can add a lil beano (we'll look the other way)for additional conversion...and let it continue to mash overnight.
At the end of the mash, cool to 80f and transfer to fermenter (grain and all).
Top up to 6-7 gallons total volume.
Aerate well and pitch yeast ..........
How much yeast?
when life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... and try to find someone whose life has given them vodka, and have a party.
Ridgerunnr wrote:Well they seem to be all in one piece lol...so..now what lol..corns still cookin
they shoulda cracked it for you. my first trip to a brew shop he knew I didn't know shit and went ahead and cracked it for me without even asking. so how did you crack it?
This is kind of embarrassing but sometimes I like to smell my own backset
Extra large freezer bags and a big heavy king pin and pounded it.
Theres still some uncracked but got most of it. Corns cooled to 150
So added barley.. will stir a few times before covering for the night ..will pitch
Tomorrow
Lower protein on this bag at 7% than previous bags. Good for us bourbon makers,... um. I mean chicken feeders... ya that. 
