email from Brewhaus

[coaldust1]

Was notified comcerning my order that the FEDS wanted a list of all customers for the last 3 years, has the witch hunt begun??

[Halfbaked]

NS! Could you copy and paste it on here? What exactly did it say? What part of the country are you in? By Letter? If you have more details please share them please. Did you buy a condencer or complete set up? I am paranoid but sounds like warlock (and maybe a few witches) hunt. HOPEFULLY FEDS ARE FEELING LIKE EVERYTHING IS OUT OF CONTROL AND DO THE $75 PERMIT IT ALLOW HOMEOWNERS TO DISTILL THEIR OWN HOUCH like it was in a post I read a few months back.

[MRP]

Here's contents of my letter from Rick at BH:
"Yesterday we received a formal request from the TTB for our list of still sales for three years past (the maximum that they can request) and ongoing. Supposedly they are doing the same with other producers, as well. We realize that this change in the landscape may result in the changing of people’s minds regarding their purchase (or, at the very least, result in more people obtaining appropriate licensing). Please advise if you would still like us to ship your order, if you want to give it more consideration, or if you would prefer to cancel entirely, and we will move forward accordingly. Regards, Rick

[buddha52]

Copied from another site. Take it as you will. We ALL know when getting into this hobby it is illegal.

Federal Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau regulations state that still manufacturers need to begin providing customer info, upon request, if asked to do so. This does not include information on past customers. The rules merely state that manufacturers need to begin reporting once asked to do so.

The TTB only requires manufacturers of finished, functional equipment to report (again, only if asked). They define a still as, "Any apparatus capable of being used for separating alcoholic or spirituous vapors, or spiritous solutions, or spirits, from spirituous solutions or mixtures..."
Buddha

[Halfbaked]

I think that that was a really nice letter from Brewhaus. They didn't have to do that. They put your interest in front of their profits. Not what I would have expected from big cops. Cudos to Brewhaus and Rick at Brewhaus.

[Husker]

This post has been changed to be a global announcement. The information contained within this post is disturbing, and should make everyone think long and hard. If the feds are looking at coming down hard on ppl, then we need to be ready to duck our heads down, QUICKLY.

This possibly is blow back from that fuk'n mooshiners crap show, that has every dumbass in the country thinking they can make a 6 figure income tax free from doing this. I HATE that fk'n show!!!

If we soon find out that this is just a single event, with no 'real' ramifications, this post will go back to being a 'normal' post. But for now, I think it is best that we wave a red flag right now, so members know that something ugly may have been started.

H.

[rgarry]

Anyone, still have a good relationship with Mike (Kentucky Shiner) to see if he got same request.

[likkerluvver]

I think that that was a really nice letter from Brewhaus. They didn't have to do that. They put your interest in front of their profits. Not what I would have expected from big cops. Cudos to Brewhaus and Rick at Brewhaus.

EXACTLY what I would expect from Brewhaus. Rick runs an operation there which has first-rate business ethics.

[rad14701]

What the Fed's do with this information is subject to speculation... They may mull over it in an effort to determine who is most active as far as purchasing and producing for sales, or they may consider doing random contacts with customers...

Another possibility is just testing the waters to get an idea as to just how extensive practice of the craft has become so they know what they are up against... If they see that there is no stopping the movement they might be more inclined to rethink their endeavors and begin a paradigm shift towards decriminalization... This would be the best case scenario...

Definitely enough of a shot across the bow to make past customers anal sphincter knot up...

[jholmz]

i know that in the us makers are required by law to furnish lists but this is the first time ive heard about them actually requesting one. ive got to go with husker on this one i think too much unwanted attention is being drawn to us because of the mass of people drawn in by "the show". hope theyre just flexing their muscle letting the builders know theyre still the boss, and that it ends there. if you bought your still id be trying to figure out a place to keep it safe and getting a good story together just in case.

[sssjrcowboys]

So if I get this right they are only interested in the information on just still sales or are they also interested in sales of items like copper mesh

[mash rookie]

PLUS 1. I hate that stupid freaking show too. It has stirred up a hornets nest. Hopefully the Feds are just trying to get peoples attention. I wonder how many manufacturers they sent the letter to that are not notifying their customers.

Mile High. Did you get a letter?

[rgarry]

I guess it boils down to what the law is. If its illegal to own, without a permit, is the information that you own one, enough for a search warrant. I'm no lawyer. If the answer is yes, well that is scary. If he answer is no, well less scary. I also wouldn't give a story, I wouldn't say anything. I would hire a lawyer.

[Husker]

Mile High. Did you get a letter?

I sent a direct email to Mike, and he is usually very responsive about asking questions are topics directed at MH, so I expect him to answer shortly

It would be very nice to know just how many of the larger companies have gotten this. If just one, it may not be that bad. Possibly someone busted, and chirped about where he bought his setup. If they are all getting these records requests, then we should all be wary.

H.

[Halfbaked]

I think if the man wants your/our/my attention he has it!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Husker]

I guess it boils down to what the law is. If its illegal to own, without a permit, is the information that you own one, enough for a search warrant. I'm no lawyer. If the answer is yes, well that is scary. If he answer is no, well less scary. I also wouldn't give a story, I wouldn't say anything. I would hire a lawyer.

It is NOT illegal to own a still (fed law), but in some states it certainly may be. It is 100% illegal to RUN a still, to produce ethanol of any form (fed law), without being licensed. So by simply having a list of still purchasers, they do not have cause to come busting down your door. But if they do get a list, start doing some electronic searching of purchases, and find you bought a bigger still, and have bought a ton of sugar in the last year, I will assure you that surveillance will be next, to get enough info. Feds are MUCH different than local law enforcement (usually). When you get arrested by the feds, they usually have a huge stack of evidence already built up, and pretty much know you are guilty. Local LEO will often arrest someone before there is adequate evidence to make the conviction, and then (after the fact), accumulate all the evidence needed.

H.

[heartcut]

More reason to build your own or have a friend with the skills to build one for you. Bad news for hobby stillers and folks who sell hobby type stills.
We have the best government money can buy.

[Moose_755]

No bueno...I guess we all have to remember if you do the crime...well, we all know the rest.

[Husker]

I received this reply (exact reply) from Mile High. They are having login problems with the forum, so I will post this for them, and try to get their account working again (reset the password most likely).

For some reason I can't log on can you post this for me.


I called and talked to the TTB agent that started this investigation they told me its nothing to worry about they are not going to hassle the customers. I knew this was going to happen with all the new company’s starting up also the TV shows.
To me this was common knowledge that the TTB would eventually ask for records. It’s like owing a gun thy want records.
So stop freaking out people this is nothing new and I would be very surprised if anything comes from it.
Every company that sells distillers has to keep records and the distiller’s need a serial number and the TTB can ask for the records anytime. But you really think the TTB will start investigating over 30000 people a year?


But don’t forget it’s not illegal to have a distiller it depends on how you use it Just keep it clean
This is from the TTB web Site
TTB Laws

Under Federal rules administered by TTB, it depends on how you use the still. You may not produce alcohol with these stills unless you qualify as a distilled spirits plant. However, owning a small still and using it for other purposes is allowed. You should also check with your State and local authorities - their rules may differ.

A still is defined as apparatus capable of being used to separate ethyl alcohol from a mixture that contains alcohol. Small stills (with a cubic distilling capacity of a gallon or less) that are used for laboratory purposes or for distilling water or other non-alcoholic materials are exempt from our rules. If you buy a small still and use it to distill water or extract essential oils by steam or water extraction methods, you are not subject to TTB requirements. If you produce essential oils by a solvent method and you get alcohol as a by-product of your process, we consider that distilling. Even though you are using and recovering purchased alcohol, you are separating the alcohol from a mixture -distilling.





Happy Distilling,
Mile Hi Distilling Staff



***Distilling alcohol for the purpose of personal consumption is illegal in the USA. All information contained within this email is not an intent to teach a person how to distill their own alcohol, rather talk about the principles of how the distillation of alcohol works while having the correct legal documents allowing the distillation.

[Jimbo]

I dont know what the hell any of you are talking about. I been boilin rose petals for my beautiful wife to spray in her panty drawer.

[Husker]

Sorry to hear that Jimbo. the amount of rose petal water you have been needing for task, does tell the rest of us a little more than we wanted to know

[drinkingdog]

I dont know what the hell any of you are talking about. I been boilin rose petals for my beautiful wife to spray in her panty drawer.

I get better results spraying just her panties

[rgarry]

I'm not sure how to read that from mile high. It appears they weren't asked and he was proactively calling them but that is not stated. A database whether its for guns, stills or what ever the f, is not good. With the latest crap from the IRS targeting groups, anyone who trust our government is naive. We still have the best government in the world but some people can corrupt the system. I doubt they are trying to find out who leaked Romneys IRS forms.

[drinkingdog]

For some reason I can't log on can you post this for me.


I called and talked to the TTB agent that started this investigation they told me its nothing to worry about they are not going to hassle the customers. I knew this was going to happen with all the new company’s starting up also the TV shows.
To me this was common knowledge that the TTB would eventually ask for records.

TTB agent said nothing to worry about. Sounds like the other prisoner in the shower room with you when they tell you to go ahead and pick up the bar of soap you have nothing to worry about. Did they say why all of a sudden they want that info? They must be talking a survey for family feud. It doesn't sound good to me

[Halfbaked]

I was thinking the tiger was saying don't worry I am not going to eat you. Same concept just a little diff. Someones gonna get it in the end.

[milehidistilling]

I called and talked to the TTB agent that started this investigation they told me its nothing to worry about they are not going to hassle the customers. I knew this was going to happen with all the new company’s starting up also the TV shows.

To me this was common knowledge that the TTB would eventually ask for records. It’s like owing a gun thy want records.
So stop freaking out people this is nothing new and I would be very surprised if anything comes from it.

Every company that sells distillers has to keep records and the distiller’s need a serial number and the TTB can ask for the records anytime. But you really think the TTB will start investigating over 30000 people a year.

But don’t forget it’s not illegal to have a distiller it depends on how you use it Just keep it clean.

I think in the long run this could help legalize home distilling this is a very fast growing hobby.
Beer and wine making was illegal not too long ago well 30 years ago F*** I’m getting old
This is from the TTB web Site
TTB Laws

Under Federal rules administered by TTB, it depends on how you use the still. You may not produce alcohol with these stills unless you qualify as a distilled spirits plant. However, owning a small still and using it for other purposes is allowed. You should also check with your State and local authorities - their rules may differ.

A still is defined as apparatus capable of being used to separate ethyl alcohol from a mixture that contains alcohol. Small stills (with a cubic distilling capacity of a gallon or less) that are used for laboratory purposes or for distilling water or other non-alcoholic materials are exempt from our rules. If you buy a small still and use it to distill water or extract essential oils by steam or water extraction methods, you are not subject to TTB requirements. If you produce essential oils by a solvent method and you get alcohol as a by-product of your process, we consider that distilling. Even though you are using and recovering purchased alcohol, you are separating the alcohol from a mixture -distilling.

[milehidistilling]

Thy will legalize it and tax you. If people are worried about the TTB thy should just get the alcohol fuel permit its free.

Do you know why stills are illegal Rockefeller basically paid congress to pass prohibition go get rid of all the stills so there would be no competition with his gasoline.

I just sold some distilling products to Myth busters I hope this will shed a little light on home distilling like making people blind or dying and of course still blowing up.

[milehidistilling]

I was thinking the tiger was saying don't worry I am not going to eat you. Same concept just a little diff. Someones gonna get it in the end.

In 3 years of distiller’s sales from all the company the TTB will probably get list of about 80000 people.

You really think they will start knocking on doors please thy have bigger fish to fry than go after Grandpa making a little hooch in his basement.

[mash rookie]

Mike,

Did they ask you for your sales records?

[rgarry]

Did they ask for your list?

You need a separate building for permit. Many guys have a garage attached to house.