email from Brewhaus

[One Sock]

For now just follow standard safe stillin' practices, when done with a run break down and clean the still, store the tower off site and if it's purty, use the kettle to hold a potted fern or somethin! Don't keep gallons of product around, a couple of store bought bottles filled with yer stuff is enuf. Otherwise, it's wait and see...

[Doogie]

quick question - can the serial number be removed (is it a plate?)

If the still is copper, tell 'em you bought it hoping copper would skyrocket - alas, it failed and you crushed and sold it to a scrap dude.

Seriously, hide yer stash, get to liking whitedog and making it in little batches for personal consumption.

Irregardless of your political views or views on the validity of the tax on likker, owning a still and/or operating it may be illegal in your area. If you bought one online, you may be in their sights. In considering of flaunting the law due to your personal views, you should also consider the possibility in the future of severely and painfully craving a turbo based likker while Bubba has his way with you in the big house.

[Doogie]

Very troubling for someone who just ordered.

Time to lay low.

How long ago? Can you ship it back and get a refund, even after restocking fee?

If so, do it, lay low for a bit and build your own. Keep all the documentation - emails, shipping documents (send it in a way to generate documents and receipt of delivery), bank/credit card statements showing the refund - everything - that way if they visit you, you will have a nice folder (heck make a copy of it in advance to let them take) to present to them that you changed your mind and wanted to be a good little citizen ...

[Paracelsus]

I'm curious if destroying the still is an option, leave the serial number intact and drill through the column/condenser a couple of times.

Keep it on hand if they come knocking. Hand it over and say you didn't realize it was illegal in your state (it is in mine), you thought it was legal to have but not make alcohol with (which is true Federally).

Is this even a sensible thing?

[blind drunk]

In considering of flaunting the law due to your personal views, you should also consider the possibility in the future of severely and painfully craving a turbo based likker while Bubba has his way with you in the big house.

I suspect one of us would get them to stop using turbo in jail

[rad14701]

There's honestly no need for knee-jerk reactions here, folks... Easy for me to say because I've never bought anything from a vendor but even if I did I wouldn't be concerned... There are far worse crimes these days than making potable spirits for personal consumption... Keep it small and don't label your spirits like you want people to admire it, perhaps through unwise gifting, and then the full burden falls onto those potentially entertaining an investigation... What we do here is to prove that we aren't in agreement with draconian laws as they pertain to our enjoyment of the home distillation craft... We have to promote the idea that we don't give a rats ass about the laws as long as we aren't selling and that those producing for sales are the only people to investigate and prosecute...


<rant>

In my mind the person down the road who is selling tomatoes, blueberries, pumpkins, used tires, firewood, or whatever else, at the roadside and not claiming the income is guiltier than I am for making my own wine and spirits that I consume in the privacy of my own home... Are they going to start coming after folks in states that tax groceries for growing their own vegetables, raising their own meat animals, or keeping chickens for fresh eggs...??? Hell No...!!!

Here is a fine example of there being too many laws... My state is currently passing a law that requires bowling establishments to conspicuously post sings warning patrons to not go outside to smoke wearing bowling shoes because they become slippery when wet and can cause injuries from slipping and falling... All because people have filed lawsuits due to their own ignorance... Every bowling alley I was ever in years ago had signs stating "No bowling shoes beyond this point" because they didn't want stones, dirt, and grime from the street to get tracked onto the well kept alleys... When did society get so ignorant that common sense went the way of the dinosaur...??? And then to sue an establishment because they weren't protected from their own ignorance... Which then forces insurance companies to raise premiums for ALL bowling establishments...

Enough is enough...!!! You can cower in the corner like lambs waiting to be led to slaughter or you can grow a fucking backbone and tell people how it's going to be...!!! That's how things get done...!!! Don't snivel and whine like the damned bleeding hearts that have to have a law passed for one reason or another without enough just cause... Don't ask... Don't beg... Tell...!!! Sooner or later the powers that be will wise up... Compliance is de facto acceptance... We all know how well that worked for the Jews in WWII now don't we...

Sorry, folks, but when I hear members here talking like sheeple about how maybe they should return merchandise or render it unusable it makes my blood boil... Reach down and realize that most of you still have the set of balls you were born with...

</rant>

[Pyewacket]

Two years or so ago they got fat tax in Denmark (no joke!) The politicians, as usual, didn't know that the over-fat epidemic is caused by overconsumption of carbohydrates rather than fat. The law lasted for about a year - now it's history, thank God!

The problem is that some peoples (=nationalities) accept everything after protesting lamely for a short while, while other almost will make revolution or block streets with their tractors in protest of some stupid regulations.

Off topic--But I wanted to comment on this...I agree with you 100% This nonsense is as prevalent in the states:

Here in the U.S. we have all sorts of SIN tax. I consider Alcohol taxes a form of a Sin tax. It is easy for them to justify for a couple reasons. And like you just stated, they do not base this on reality. Smoking(taxes), alcohol consumption(taxes), seat belt laws (tickets), helmet laws (tickets)etc...These things are revenue makers. The mantra has been: When you do these bad things, you cost the non-guilty tax payers huge sums of money; Illness, injury that results from this VERY bad behavior etc.

The Irony, in the US at least, is that it is the people that live a long life and a "healthy one" because they didn't take those crazy risks...end up living a longer more EXPENSIVE life. The most expensive aspect of our health care system is the long term care of the elderly. You think a $150,000 surgery is expensive when you crack your head on the pavement and were not wearing a helmet -or- when you die at age 63 from liver failure...sticking your family and the country with a $450,000 medical bill---- Try living 20 years in a nursing home: While you may never have cracked your helmetless head on the pavement, you always wore your seat belt and didn't touch a drop...but you leave your family and the government with a $2.5+million hospice bill.

There has been at least one good study that explored that by promoting healthy living ideas (western medical system), like applying a sin tax, will end up costing the government far more than letting a person live a self destructive-shortened life-style. You can debate this all you want. You can come up with anecdotes of someone you know that lived like a vegetable for years....But we track EVERYTHING in medicine (US)...ICD9/10 Codes -- Procedure Codes---all connected to morbidity. All expenses accounted for...The data does not lie.

Harsh reality, but if your goal is to save money...you are better off promoting a destructive lifestyle. In other words, if you really want to save people money...and if that is the only thing you are concerned with...you should give people tax breaks on alcohol, cigarettes, and remove penalties for not wearing a helmet/seat-belt etc... Or, maybe the goal is to keep feeding the mechanism. Controlling people -- striping liberties because -- everyone needs a budget, in government work.

So, here is a toast to you "Federal Government" -- You are welcome

[short bus]

Pye, I agree with you 110%. Many think the planet is overpopulated anyway, why encourage people to live longer! My mother with a very healthy lifestyle managed to ensephilitis (a brain infection) at 60 leaving her very much a vegetable. She lingered in $6500/month nursing home until she died six years later! A medical professional she always told me she didn't want to get old after all the things she had seen! Dying from congestive heart failure or scirossis ain't pretty either, at any age!

Shorty

[carnica]

Reach down and realize that most of you still have the set of balls you were born with...

Softballs?

[heartcut]

I agree with you, Rad, though the position one finds himself in while checking for your balls is eerily similar to a much feared "backside to your inmate" position in the corner of a cell. I don't blame folks for being scared, but I'm not worried. Might be a tough break for the vendors of finished stills.

[Doogie]

<rant>
Don't ask... Don't beg... Tell...!!! Sooner or later the powers that be will wise up...

May I suggest you call yer sherrif and let him come and inspect your still and tell him how it should be?

Kinda serious getting caught in the US with a still, let alone still and product no? Would hate to put the family and possessions at risk just to make a statement for producing yer own likker. Maybe in 10 years they can be known as true "pioneers of likker freedom", but at what personal cost?

[blind drunk]

The question is - how would a judge handle a guy and a couple of jugs of homemade hooch for personal consumption, especially without any evidence of selling the stuff?

[Doogie]

depends ... but if it looks like the trial is going badly and the judge is hung over, I think a suggestion of an improved cut moonshine would not go over well ...

[rad14701]

<rant>
Don't ask... Don't beg... Tell...!!! Sooner or later the powers that be will wise up...

May I suggest you call yer sherrif and let him come and inspect your still and tell him how it should be?

Kinda serious getting caught in the US with a still, let alone still and product no? Would hate to put the family and possessions at risk just to make a statement for producing yer own likker. Maybe in 10 years they can be known as true "pioneers of likker freedom", but at what personal cost?

So go ahead and cower in the corner like your opinion doesn't count... It's your choice... I don't live that way... Laws are made by people and laws can be changed by people... It's time for change, people... And even if that's not what this topic is really about it is still a corollary... Do we really want to continue to be considered criminals until the end of time or do we want change and are we willing to stand up for what we believe in...??? I don't walk around feeling like I need to fit in and not make waves because I have too much to lose... That's what sheeple do... Bah...!!!

[goose eye]

rad sound like you the man to start the dominos. next county fair yall have get you a booth an take your rig an all the fixins
a compence to cookin . let everyone no they cant have none it just for you.
let me no how that turned out


so im tole

[rad14701]

rad sound like you the man to start the dominos. next county fair yall have get you a booth an take your rig an all the fixins
a compence to cookin . let everyone no they cant have none it just for you.
let me no how that turned out


so im tole

Sorry, goose eye, but that doesn't even equate into the discussion... Maybe you just don't get it... If you keep saying you ain't never made no likker then I guess you're cowering in the corner too because you can't even be honest with yourself or the rest of us... No offense intended... Merely pointing out the obvious based on your own posts... Let's not turn this into a pissing match between members because we aren't the ones doing the persecuting, the laws and those expected to uphold them are... We want to remove that expectation with regard to home distillation for personal consumption, or at least most of us do... And that has nothing to do with setting up a booth at a fair...

[seabass]

Laws can be changed. That won't happen if everyone buries their head in the sand.

[Jimbo]

rad sound like you the man to start the dominos. next county fair yall have get you a booth an take your rig an all the fixins
a compence to cookin . let everyone no they cant have none it just for you.
let me no how that turned out


so im tole

Sorry, goose eye, but that doesn't even equate into the discussion... Maybe you just don't get it... If you keep saying you ain't never made no likker then I guess you're cowering in the corner too because you can't even be honest with yourself or the rest of us... No offense intended... Merely pointing out the obvious based on your own posts... Let's not turn this into a pissing match between members because we aren't the ones doing the persecuting, the laws and those expected to uphold them are... We want to remove that expectation with regard to home distillation for personal consumption, or at least most of us do... And that has nothing to do with setting up a booth at a fair...

Do it proudly or you dont have any balls, but dont label it with a silly homemade label. Dont tell nobody, but come here and give the feds the intricate details directly of everything youre up to, daily. You guys hash it out I give up, Ill be in the shed squeezing out some bourbon wash so I can run it tomorrow.

[noobshine]

its really not going to happen unless they can figure out a way to tax it. that's what its really all about. that's the 1st thing they startd talking about in the states that legalized pot was how to tax and regulate it. be interesting to see how they handle home growing too. theres something else at work here. pot smokers are associated with peace movement hipsters and political activism. shiners are associated with hillbillies, right wingers, rednecks and preppers. which group has more sympathy votes in todays culture? plus pot has had a lot of outspoken well known advocates hard at work for decades to get it legalized and they're not quite there yet. who do we have? tim and tickle?

[LWTCS]

tim and tickle?

And HD.
The forum often takes a hard line stance in order to demonstrate that there are more qualified, responsible stillers out there than the goofball variety.

Certainly the other forums have top notch talent as well. But HD is particularly noted for promoting the safest practices.

[Pyewacket]

its really not going to happen unless they can figure out a way to tax it. that's what its really all about. that's the 1st thing they startd talking about in the states that legalized pot was how to tax and regulate it. be interesting to see how they handle home growing too. theres something else at work here. pot smokers are associated with peace movement hipsters and political activism. shiners are associated with hillbillies, right wingers, rednecks and preppers. which group has more sympathy votes in todays culture? plus pot has had a lot of outspoken well known advocates hard at work for decades to get it legalized and they're not quite there yet. who do we have? tim and tickle?

Good points. I would like to add, in the state of Washington they raised $3,000,000 to campaign for legalization. That helps a bit.

[noobshine]

"And HD"

without question. but hardly anybody knows this site exists, and we're all anonymous. I'm talking about public advocacy. I was referring to highly visible public figures within the pot movement. woody harrelson, tommy chong, high times magazine. we don't have anything like that. I don't see a referendum for shining showing up on my ballot anytime soon, and I live in one of the 3 shining-est states in the country.

[Pyewacket]

Washington got Rick Steves on board. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Steves" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Well, they really didn't recruit him...he donated hundreds of thousands of his own money for the cause. Now I love Tommy Chong...that guy found himself on the bad side of the feds for years (selling glass bongs of all things). However, Rick Steves had to have brought a ton of legitimacy...along with his cash to the campaign. So yeah, as you say... having someone fronting the cause can make a difference.

[LWTCS]

but hardly anybody knows this site exists

I beg to differ kinda sorta. There is definitely some enthusiasm brewing/ stewing up
Also the scale and history of alcohol can not at all be compared to weed. I do see your point how ever.
Baby steps.......

[Pyewacket]

Also the scale and history of alcohol can not at all be compared to weed. I do see your point how ever. Baby steps.......

Very true. Also, weed is still pretty damn illegal according to the feds.

[LWTCS]

Very true. Also, weed is still pretty damn illegal according to the feds.

Yes indeed. thats what is so strange and paradoxical,,,,,,,that alcohol appears to be more illegal than weed and yet alcohol is in fact legal when weed is illegal...truth is that it is almost comical especially when considering the percentage of law enforcement officials/ representatives that are chemically dependent on ethanol.

[Stainless dude]

I think it is only a mater of time, pot will be legal in the us and hopefully distilling also. We must all be patient and carefull. I think the wind is blowing in the right direction though.

[thecroweater]

This comes up from time to time here. No one ever gets prosecuted unless they go about rubbing the governments nose in it (by way of selling) . I don't know of anyone ever being done for stilling here. ppl have been done for owning a still with a capacity of greater than 5 ltrs but it is nearly always in conjunction with other charges like drugs or selling likker which here is dealt with by a hole different act concerning tax evasion I would expect its the same story there. Governments are governments the world over, the largest influence is public opinion (that is the nature of democracy ) but if ya want to quickly force a change in policy by wait of numbers remember the ppl in the front row must fall for the ppl behind to prevail and not a lot of ppl want to be martyr when it involves jail or fines unless they're going down anyway I doubt the government there would want the public backlash from hunting down the average Fred Nork making a little booze for himself but I reckon if I was in the US I would be paying cash and giving the name Joe Bloggs

[goose eye]

rad call it what you will but I aint never made no likker an aint gonna in the future.

theres got to be a first where the public say enough is enough. that usually starts with getin arrested deliberately
the public aint nowhere close to that right now but each person here got to weigh the importance of likker an
what it repervence on themselves an there family

this aint everybodys windmill


so im tole

[Parker36]

SO why isnt there an organization representing the home distilling community like there is for the home brewing community? homebrewersassociation.org or the numerous ones representing sensible marijuana legistaltion?
That would seem like a logical step.
I would think that between the still manufacturers and enthusiasts something could be put together