Shotgun condenser question.

[Litebread]

After building and running a 3" boka for several months now, and becoming totally hooked, my next build will be a pot still. Nothing fancy, 5gal boiler with a 1-1/2" column maybe 10"-12" tall turned 135(deg) into a shotgun as the product condenser. I'll be heating via a 1kw element.

I wanted to get the opinion of some of the more experienced members concerning the condenser. I'm planning on keeping the O.D. the same 1-1/2" and about 12" long but was thinking of using 1/4" lines for the vapor path. My rational is that I can get more of the 1/4" lines inside the O.D. which would allow for more heat exchange than fewer lines at 3/8". I do have some concerns though about head pressure on the more narrow lines. Am I incorrect in my heat exchange thinking? Is the head pressure even a concern given the number of lines in the condenser?

All of this is still on the drawing board and I'm still very much a newb so any suggestion about the condenser or any other part of the build would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
-Litebread

[ufo8mycow]

I have a 12" 1-1/2 shotgun with 7 3/8 od tubes. Stick with less tubes if you can. Every one of them is another potential leak and if you are hard soldering leaks are a bitch To fix. If you are only running 1000w why do you want shotgun? You could easily get away with a 1/2 inside 3/4 Liebig 18"-24" and they are way easier to build.

[Litebread]

Thanks for the reply. Your comments about leaks I will take to heart and definitely consider as the planning stage continues.

I am planning a shotgun for a few reasons. Firstly, I enjoy fabrication almost as much as I enjoy distilling and enjoy a challenge. Secondly I had planned on using a couple unions on the shotgun so I could reuse it on other projects that I'm sure I'll be making down the road. Also the thought had occured to me that I may one day, sooner rather than later, increase both the boiler size as well as the element I'm heating with and figured a shotgun would serve me well regardless of how large/hot I end up running on the front end of the still.

-Litebread

[Bushman]

I had the same debate when building my new still, for the dephlagmater should I go with more 1/2" or fewer and larger 3/4". I went with the fewer 3/4" on the 4" column and like ufo8mycow stated fewer chances for leaks. It works great as I can attain 100% reflux. I would not consider 1/4" for this it's too small. I was thinking if your idea is getting a shorter product condenser for the reason not selecting a much easier to build Liebig then maybe you should look at or PM Myles and check out his double walled condenser. It's very efficient and you would cut your length in half. I am just thinking this might be a better solution for a 1-1/2" pot column.

[rad14701]

I have to agree with Bushman that 1/4" tubes are too small... The whetting action combined with the condensed spirits battling with rising vapor can potentially cause choking and huffing... 3/8" would be the smallest recommended size for any application where both liquid and vapor will reside within the same volumetric area of a tube... If the liquid and vapor were to reside on the outside of said tubes it would be a different story... Regardless, you're better off reducing the amount of solder joints on any build if at all possible...

[Litebread]

Thanks guys, you've convinced me that 3/8" would be the minimum... Perhaps even a tad larger. I'll fiddle around with the layout and spacing of the inner lines and see what I come up with.

Thanks again,
-Litebread

[sambedded]

For 1000Watt heater you don't need a shotgun condenser . 10-15" Liebig will do the work.

[Litebread]

Finished construction of my shotgun condenser and thought I would share a couple pics. Thanks again for all the input and I'll post more photos in the "my still" section when the final polish is complete on the whole still.

-Litebread

Shotgun Condenser (side)

Shotgun Condenser (top)

[myles]

I am glad I stayed out of this until now.

My 1st reaction on hearing your proposal was not a good one. However, your finished product is a nice solution. Probably not necessary for 1 kW but what the heck - why not? A scaled down shotgun looks fine to me in this application, and I am sure it will do you well.

Let me say that 12" is too short for a more powerful element IMO, but for this particular application it should be OK. Your vapour speed should not be too excessive, so there should be enough length to condense AND cool, your product. That is my objection to short product shotguns on more powerful boilers - the product comes off too hot.

You made me think though. There is 1 potential solution to the smaller vapour paths, but it is not one I like really. The bigger tubes are a better option.

I look forwards to seeing the entire pot still. Think carefully though - with such a nice condenser it would be aesthetically pleasing if the rest of the still was in proportion. Possibly make the riser a bit longer and mount the condenser vertically? What have you in mind for the boiler?

[Litebread]

It seems you and I thought very much alike in this situation. After I got the condenser finished I decided to lengthen the column and moved the 45's around so that the shotgun hangs in the vertical position with the final reduction to 1/2 at the very end. That final 1/2 piece of pipe is no more than 4" long and is more to funnel the product into my collection container than anything else.

As for the boiler, as of now it's a 5g SS pot but the still is attached to the lid with a threaded connection so I am free to "upgrade" that as soon as a nice candidate presents itself.

IMO the final still does look better than I had imagined it during the planning stages and I can't wait for everyone to see it. Thanks again for all the info and input, could have never done it without the help of this forum and its fine members.

-Litebread

[chrisc69]

keep us updated im thinking of something like this at the moment bit bigger but would be a good learning experiance to watch and read through your experiments and see what you come up with

[Litebread]

Posted a thread in the "My Still" section with more images. Looking forward to your input and critique.

-Litebread

[Richard7]

Looking good, here is a link to Litebread's "My still" http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=39862

[Hyko]

Hey Litebread, can I ask you how you attached your SS flanges to the copper pipe? Did you freeze the ferrule and heat the pipe to get it to fit? and once it was in the pipe, how did you solder it? I will be doing this soon for my new still because I just can't get EZ flanges to be straight enough - they always introduce slight angles at each tri-clamped union. I've considered electroplating the ferrules with copper to make them easier to solder to my pipes. Otherwise Idk how it would work, would you use two different fluxes??

Thanks for any advice

Hyko

[Litebread]

I was fortunate enough to have copper pipe in a wall thickness that the ferrules would press fit with minimal tapping with a rubber mallet, someone with more knowledge could chime in and tell you the letter of said pipe.

After I pressed the ferrule into the pipe I used a little trick I learned through experimentation to make the soldering a tad more reliable. If you take some high grade, fine AWG copper wire, like in quality cat6 networking cable... Prolly AWG 22-24 and wrap it around the ferrule with plenty of flux and then solder, the wire collar both keeps the SS from oxidizing so quickly and also holds the solder in close to the SS and allows it to whet very thoroughly and completely.

While it's true enough you can solder copper to SS given the correct flux, which is still required btw, this trick makes it really just "flow" and bind so nicely and requires so little extra effort that I always use it.

Something like this...

Ferrule connection

It's a little hard to see but the solder has completely whetted around the circumference of the ferrule and the pipe.

-Litebread

[chrisc69]

Posted a thread in the "My Still" section with more images. Looking forward to your input and critique.

-Litebread

cheers ill have a look

[ohyeahyeah]

Hey Litebread, can I ask you how you attached your SS flanges to the copper pipe? Did you freeze the ferrule and heat the pipe to get it to fit? and once it was in the pipe, how did you solder it? I will be doing this soon for my new still because I just can't get EZ flanges to be straight enough - they always introduce slight angles at each tri-clamped union. I've considered electroplating the ferrules with copper to make them easier to solder to my pipes. Otherwise Idk how it would work, would you use two different fluxes??

Thanks for any advice

Hyko

I have gotten them in by freezing the ferrule overnight using 2" L type copper pipe.
You need an acid based flux for stainless. I have read you can mix your own but i just bought this stuff from amazon.
http://www.superiorflux.com/rubyfluid_flux.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Tal]

Would like some ideas regarding a shotgun condenser i'm about to build. I will be hooking it on to my pot still which has a 78litre capacity. The reason for a shotgun has developed from my worm taking up a lot of room and also its pooling a bit due to flat spots, all fixable but I just like the shotgun idea. I will be using a copper tube of 50ml x 1 metre, inside I will have 5 tubes of 15ml. My plan is to make the inner tubes 700ml long within the 1 metre 50ml tube leaving 150ml gaps at either end. Reducers will finish the ends off. What do you think?

[Litebread]

Would like some ideas regarding a shotgun condenser i'm about to build. I will be hooking it on to my pot still which has a 78litre capacity. The reason for a shotgun has developed from my worm taking up a lot of room and also its pooling a bit due to flat spots, all fixable but I just like the shotgun idea. I will be using a copper tube of 50ml x 1 metre, inside I will have 5 tubes of 15ml. My plan is to make the inner tubes 700ml long within the 1 metre 50ml tube leaving 150ml gaps at either end. Reducers will finish the ends off. What do you think?

I think that will work just fine though its less about boiler capacity and more about power input. I upgraded my boiler to a keg with internal element soon after finishing this shotgun and upped the power from the 1kw hotplate to a 3600w element. I generally only run it wide open during heat up and find that it takes less than 130v-120v to maintain the output rate I like which still puts it in the 1kw range during the actual run.

I also have a 24" shotgun built exactly like this one that I use on a 15g boiler with a 4600w element. Again I generally only run wide open during heat up and then dial it back to the 130v-120v range during the run.

Both the condensers preform very nicely. Knocking down all the vapor with very low water flow. I did put a few bits of SS scrubbies into the top end of the inner lines to remove any huffing at higher powers.

I have on occasion been slow on turning back the power when the still started making likker and even the short version was able to knock down all the vapors, even when putting the full 3600w into it. The output water was steamy hot and I don't think it would continue to knock the vapor down the entire run at that kind of power without upping the coolant flow considerably though.

-Litebread

[Tal]

Thanx litebread...my still is a copper pot still which I heat over a gas cooker. Not sure how I measure input from that but just heat her up and then she starts pushing out the goods. Am using a worm at the moment but converting to a shotgun. Up until now the water coming out of the worm is only slightly warm so hoping the meter long shotgun will cope well??..not sure.

[Litebread]

I think a shotgun of that size will cope very well with any amount of heat input that produces a reasonable output rate. I'm sure you could over power it with gas but you would likely ruin your copper pot in the process...

-Litebread

[Tal]

Thanx Litebread...all done and sorry about jumping on your thread but your knowledge was right there in front of me...needed to get your point of view...cheers

[Litebread]

No worries at all. Always glad to share my knowledge, limited as it may be, with anyone who needs it.

-Litebread