Calculating Column Height

[Copperjohn]

How does one determine proper column height for a particular diameter pipe? I've searched the forum and I came up with what was suggested as a rule of thumb. The rule of thumb was that height should be 12-20 times the diameter of the pipe. So for instance a 6 inch column should be 6-10 ft tall.

Couple of questions...
* What occurs if the column is shorter than suggested by rule?
* Why would one choose the lower end of the range. Why choose the upper end?
* Lastly if this rule of thumb is a good rule of thumb then why are most of the 4 inch builds on this site (including mine) well short of what is suggested by the rule?

[DAD300]

1. The rule of thumb is to get you to azeo, 95.6% ABV. So you will have an easier time reaching for purity with a taller column.
2. One would make a shorter column due to lack of pipe, lack of funds or a short ceiling height...
3. a taller column gives you the latitude to detune and run a lower ABV, but not enough column is very hard to over come and increase purity.
4. Using the rule of thumb...a 4" column would be between 48" - 80". Add that to the boiler required to make sufficient vapor to support a 4" dia and you need a twelve foot ceiling as a work area.

Now...a lot of the 4"-6" diameter stills you are probably looking at are not reflux columns, they are plate stills of one kind or another.

[rad14701]

The example of 6" would require a boiler larger than what we consider "hobby scale", which would then make a 6" column beyond "hobby scale" as well... You can't feed a 6" column with a 15 gallon keg very well because almost all of the alcohol will be in the column and none in the boiler shortly after the column is fully operational...

There is documentation and calculators on the parent site to help come up with a right sized column and heat requirements...

[Copperjohn]

Dad300---Now I'm really confused. Are you saying a perforated plate still is not a reflux still? It certainly causes reflux doesn't it? The columns I've been looking at are 4 inch , 4 plate stills that are 30 inches long not including the Deflag.

Based on the "rule" my current build of a 6 plate 4 inch flute is only 37 inches. Still short.

Rad---I am not looking to make a 6" column still, I just used that as an example.

[wv_cooker]

CopperJohn yes a plated column is a reflux column, a CM or Coolant Management still for that matter. As for the height of column A plated column will be what it is for plates. The calculators and rules of thumb you are discussing refer to Structured Packing or theoretical plates not the same. The Flute thread has the most info pertaining to plated columns or Flutes as they are called.

[DAD300]

wv answered it perfectly...a plated column is whatever the plate needs. I don't think there is a rule of thumb for the height of a plate. Maybe there is though. I'm sure the downcomers need some separation for heat reasons.

[Copperjohn]

Thanks for your reply's but my confusion only deepens. I tried to read a bit before responding to WV's comment that my flute/plated column is also a CM still.

In this post by Prairiepiss http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=25732 he says CM stills are an inferior design. I thought I was building the best distilling apparatus possible.

Isn't a flute just about the closest thing one can get to a commercial distilleries technology?

My original question still remains but I should have been more specific regarding a plated column. WV---how do I determine what the plate needs? I couldn't find it in the Flute thread. Again..I am not building a 6 inch column, I just like to know the why behind what I am doing. With my current 4 inch build my plates are 5 1/2 inches apart. Why not 2 1/2 inches or 8 1/2 inches apart?

[wv_cooker]

CM type stills have changed considerably since the days of the type PP discusses. He more over discusses the ones sold By Brewhaus, MileHi and such.

As for the height between plates somewhere in the flute thread early on it was stated that the distance between plates should be at least as high as the diameter of the column. I believe most went a 1/2" more and now a days folks go 5 to 5/1/2 inches.

The distance must be enough so as to take entrainment into account so that one plate does not cancel out the next through entrainment. Also remember that more than enough space is also a waste and has an effect on establishing the temperature gradient of your column. My solid body is built at 4 1/2 " between and I will probably go 5" on my modular that I'm working on right now.

Also as a thought for everyone, yes a Flute or plated column is as about as close as you can get to commercial style equipment at the hobby level. However whats to say commercial equipment is better than ours. They make massive amounts of products to sell to the public and don't remove the nastyies so if you drink a bottle of theirs you are asking for a headache. Drink a bottle of ours and you can get up feeling almost as well as before you took the first drink.

I tried this the other night for some stupid reason I drank almost an entire quart of UJ, when I woke up I had a minimal amount of dehydration and absolutely no headache at all. You tell me whats best lol.

[Copperjohn]

WV---Thanks for the help. Gooooo Mountaineeers!

[Imad]

Hello all hope you're safe I am new to distilling spirits so I have a few questions if anybody can help me I would be grateful :

1. Is their a relation between the measurement of the column and the volume of the boiler ? ( I'm manufacturing a column still with 3" diameter and 115 cm height by the thumb rule ) what boiler can I use ?

2.in my 115 cm column how long the pipe and the condenser should be? I think the pipe should be double the size of the condenser in height is that right ?

3.can someone send me proper mesurment I have a picture of the design I can send it by email.

Thank you

[Saltbush Bill]

There seems to be some confusion in this thread as to still type.... true re flux still with packing .....or a plated column. The two are very different things used for different purposes. If you clarify which of them it is that you want to build your more likely to get some help.

[LWTCS]

1. Is their a relation between the measurement of the column and the volume of the boiler ? ( I'm manufacturing a column still with 3" diameter and 115 cm height by the thumb rule ) what boiler can I use ?
there can be. You wouldn't want the column to be so large that when fully enriched there wouldn't be enough alcohol in the kettle to drive out the alcohol in the column without compromising purity/abv

2.in my 115 cm column how long the pipe and the condenser should be? I think the pipe should be double the size of the condenser in height is that right ?
could you say that one more time with a bit more specificity?

3.can someone send me proper mesurment I have a picture of the design I can send it by email.
post your design here so that the entire community can participate no?

Thank you

[Imad]

Thank you for your reply,
So as for Saltbush Bill can u explain the difference between these two types,
Mine is a plated still because it's easy to manufacture.
I'm willing to make vodka and gin

As for LWTCS
So what is the best boiler size for a 3" column,
Also another question. the column is composed of two parts: the pipe and the condenser. My question is if the column is 115cm x 3" what should be the sizes of each component(pipe and condenser), considering the volume of the boiler.

Attached a picture of the design.

Thanks again

[Twisted Brick]

Imad,
A bit of foundational reading will give you the base knowledge you'll want to have before you proceed. Look to the bottom of this page and read through the threads listed under Required Reading. The Beginner's Guide will answer the questions you've asked above re: packed column vs plated column and the Glossary will make it easier to identify specific still components rather than 'pipe'. You'll also find out that the straightest path to competent neutral spirits starts with a basic pot still, and finishes with a packed column.

If you plan to build (copy/modify) the still you have pictured, you definitely need to know more before you start. This hobby takes a lot of upfront reading and unfortunately, there's no getting around this.

Good luck!

[Imad]

Thanks brick I will check them out

[Saltbush Bill]

Imad the still in that photo is not a true reflux still in my opinion, its a design of still that most hobby distillers stopped building about the time that I got into this hobby, it is an outdated design to say the least.
I am aware that some manufacturers are still selling them and claiming them to be a "Duel Purpose" still.
They are in reality not much more than a pot still with a little bit of reflux.
A proper reflux column / still has one main purpose and it is the right tool for making vodka and neutral type spirits.
The main purpose of a plated column is to make flavored brown spirits, though it can be made to make vodkas/ neutrals by adding a packed section.
Without learning more about what you are attempting to do you will be throwing your time , money and energy to the wind.
Its not as simple as just building / buying the first still you see.