QUESTION: My First Run Low Proof, Why?

[Gonger]

My friend and I just tried our first run at making some good shine and I just had some concerns about our first attempt. Some general information you might want to know: We are using a pot still, with a 5 gallon recipe using 10lbs of Sugar, 5 gallons of water, and Active yeast that we simply bought from the grocery store. We wanted our first batch to be as basic as possible and planned on moving up to corn and other mashes as we got better. The only problem we had with our mash when we started was we activated the yeast wrong and had to use another pack of yeast the following day when we realized we had made a mistake. The mash fermented in an air tight bucket we bought from our brew store with an airlock for 8 days and on distill day there were no bubbles in the mash , and the airlock was bubbling very scarcely. The mash tasted a bit sweet but I think that might have been because we put way to much sugar in the mash to begin with so we went with it. After distilling our mash our product that came out tasted pretty good and seemed to pack a bit of a punch going down but when we tried burning the shine it wouldn't light or it would blow up for a second and then go out. Eventually we had a blue flame on one attempt but we couldn't continue to get the constant flame. I'm pretty sure our product wasn't a very high proof. I wish I would've had a Hydrometer to measure the ABV but I would say the proof might be 60 proof if I was to guess. (There are some beads when I shake it but not many).

During the distilling process we turned the burner on full blast until our thermometer read about 140 and started to slow it down, after about 15min of nothing coming out and the copper wire just a little hot we decided to turn the heat up again. Liquid did not start coming out of the worm until the temp on our thermometer read around 200 Degrees F which I know is way to high. We did 2 runs this way and both times liquid did not start dripping until around this point.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to give as much info as I could. Any ideas on what we might have done wrong to cause the proof to be so low?

[Hound Dog]

Well you didn't get any product until you were at 200 degrees because that was probably the boiling point of your wash. The boiling point was so high because of the low alcohol content of the wash. The low proof of your distillate was also because of the low alcohol content of your wash. The alcohol content of the wash was low because you did not use a recipe that included nutrients for the yeast to live on. They probably just converted a little of the sugar and crapped out since you only had water sugar and yeast. Note you even said it tasted sweet which means there was still sugar available.

Get a hydrometer for your wash. Get an alcoholmeter (proof and tralle hydrometer) for your distillate. They are different. Read up on how to use them. Read up on a recipe from the tried and true section of this forum. Keep it a simple sugar or cereal wash. Read up on how to run a pot still. Read up on why you cant run a pot still by temps. Read up second distillation. Read up on making cuts.

Give it a shot again.

[Gonger]

Well you didn't get any product until you were at 200 degrees because that was probably the boiling point of your wash. The boiling point was so high because of the low alcohol content of the wash. The low proof of your distillate was also because of the low alcohol content of your wash. The alcohol content of the wash was low because you did not use a recipe that included nutrients for the yeast to live on. They probably just converted a little of the sugar and crapped out since you only had water sugar and yeast. Note you even said it tasted sweet which means there was still sugar available.

Get a hydrometer for your wash. Get an alcoholmeter (proof and tralle hydrometer) for your distillate. They are different. Read up on how to use them. Read up on a recipe from the tried and true section of this forum. Keep it a simple sugar or cereal wash. Read up on how to run a pot still. Read up on why you cant run a pot still by temps. Read up second distillation. Read up on making cuts.

Give it a shot again.

That is what I figured... I just wanted to hear it from a trusted source. I forgot to mention that I did add some Yeast nutrient. I used white grape concentrate because I heard there are nutrients in it for the yeast. I have read up on everything you mentioned and next time I intend on doing a recipe from the tried and true section. Also the thermometer was added after the first run more less as some sort of gauge to see where we were at throughout the process of distilling. Thank you for your info though.

[S-Cackalacky]

What Hound Dog said, read and read some more. I would suggest reading the "New Distiller's Reading Lounge", "The Rules we live by", and the "Parent Site". These sections will give you a good understanding of the fundamentals. You will also see that most of what you did was wrong. You didn't say much about your still. I'm wondering if it's actually safe to run. Might be time to slow down a bit and figure out what you're doing before you procede any further.

S-C

[Hound Dog]

Hell, I wouldn't drink my first run of stuff but now with a little practice, I haven't been in a liquor store in quite a while.

[Gonger]

What Hound Dog said, read and read some more. I would suggest reading the "New Distiller's Reading Lounge", "The Rules we live by", and the "Parent Site". These sections will give you a good understanding of the fundamentals. You will also see that most of what you did was wrong. You didn't say much about your still. I'm wondering if it's actually safe to run. Might be time to slow down a bit and figure out what you're doing before you procede any further.

S-C

WIll do, although I have done a lot of reading I know there is still tons of stuff I haven't read. I probably should have mentioned more about my still We are using a 2 gallon seafood pot that we have converted into a still. We are using 1/4 copper wire for our worm that is in a 5 gallon bucket as our worm box.

[rad14701]

Scrap what you are calling 1/4" wire... It's annealed copper tubing and it is too small... 3/8" is the smallest to safely and efficiently use, even for a small pot still... Had you done enough research here, rather than all over the internet, you would have known that before you started... Now would be the time to do the research you have been gently nudged to do... Hopefully, your pot is stainless steel, not aluminum...

We take safety very seriously here so get used to having mistakes pointed out without coddling...

[Gonger]

Scrap what you are calling 1/4" wire... It's annealed copper tubing and it is too small... 3/8" is the smallest to safely and efficiently use, even for a small pot still... Had you done enough research here, rather than all over the internet, you would have known that before you started... Now would be the time to do the research you have been gently nudged to do... Hopefully, your pot is stainless steel, not aluminum...

We take safety very seriously here so get used to having mistakes pointed out without coddling...

I would rather you tell me what i'm doing wrong straight up then spoon feed it to me. I'll fix up my pot and make sure its as safe as I can make it.

[mmmmmm]

You didn't have any kind of nutrient for the yeast. Your recipe is very similar to the "Birdwatchers" recipe that's floating around here, although yours (and the ones I do) was scaled down to five-ish gallons.

The part you were missing from that is tomato paste. If you had mixed in about 3/4 to 1 cup of tomato paste, it would have taken off like crazy. Well.. plus you have to make sure it's nice and warm. The recipe calls for 85-96 degrees I think. Or you can just do the best you can, it should still do something as long as it's not at a ridiculous temp.

That's why you were low proof, because there wasn't much alcohol in there to begin with. If you do that with the tomato paste, I'd suggest you do at least one stripping run down to 20 or so proof and then take that stuff, dilute it to just under 40% and do another run. You should get around 150 or more proof at the beginning of your second run.

(buy a proofing hydrometer)

And forget about your thermometer. Just bring your pot to a boil without putting too much heat on it. There's no controlling the temperature of a boiling liquid, it's either boiling or it's not.

[Gonger]

You didn't have any kind of nutrient for the yeast. Your recipe is very similar to the "Birdwatchers" recipe that's floating around here, although yours (and the ones I do) was scaled down to five-ish gallons.

The part you were missing from that is tomato paste. If you had mixed in about 3/4 to 1 cup of tomato paste, it would have taken off like crazy. Well.. plus you have to make sure it's nice and warm. The recipe calls for 85-96 degrees I think. Or you can just do the best you can, it should still do something as long as it's not at a ridiculous temp.

That's why you were low proof, because there wasn't much alcohol in there to begin with. If you do that with the tomato paste, I'd suggest you do at least one stripping run down to 20 or so proof and then take that stuff, dilute it to just under 40% and do another run. You should get around 150 or more proof at the beginning of your second run.

(buy a proofing hydrometer)

And forget about your thermometer. Just bring your pot to a boil without putting too much heat on it. There's no controlling the temperature of a boiling liquid, it's either boiling or it's not.

Thanks for all the info. I actually do have a hydrometer that I got from my friend who brews beer, I just am kinda at a lose how to use it because it didn't come with a test tube to fill the mash with . The temperture in my apartment is at a constant 70 degrees.. Is this way to cold for the yeasties to do what they need to do? Also I currently have a Strawberry brandy mash going that I have had going for about 7 days now. I heard brandy doesn't need much more than 8 days for fermentation.

[Cardinalbags]

You will need an alcohol proofing hydrometer. Your beer brewing buddy will have a beer hydrometer which will not tell you about the ABV of your distillate. But then again, HoundDog already told you that you need two different hydrometers, now didn't he?

[Gonger]

You will need an alcohol proofing hydrometer. Your beer brewing buddy will have a beer hydrometer which will not tell you about the ABV of your distillate. But then again, HoundDog already told you that you need two different hydrometers, now didn't he?

I was taking the SG of my mash, not my finished product.

[mmmmmm]

Thanks for all the info. I actually do have a hydrometer that I got from my friend who brews beer, I just am kinda at a lose how to use it because it didn't come with a test tube to fill the mash with . The temperture in my apartment is at a constant 70 degrees.. Is this way to cold for the yeasties to do what they need to do? Also I currently have a Strawberry brandy mash going that I have had going for about 7 days now. I heard brandy doesn't need much more than 8 days for fermentation.

I would try to get it over that 70 degree mark. It would probably work at that temp (my wines ferment at that temp, but we're talking months and months on those), but raising the temp to over 85 will really speed things up. You can get a fish tank heater at Walmart for like $15. I ferment five gallons at a time, and that's how I keep my wash warm. I turn it up full-blast, suction cup it to the inside of my fermentation bucket with the included mount thing, and then plug it in. After washing and sterilizing it as best as possible, of course. I just put the lid on loosely and wrap the whole bucket and lid with a blanket and call it good.

To be honest I'm not even sure what that puts my temp at, all I know is that it works. I should probably get a temp next time I do that, see where I'm at.

You can get a Proof & Trailles hydrometer and a hydrometer jar on the internet for probably around $25 total. I personally consider them to be mandatory equipment, even if just so I know that my second and third runs don't go over 40% when I put them in the pot.. it's dangerous to put something in your pot that's more than 40%.

I don't know what to tell you with the brandy, the only brandy I've ever done is either cheap carlo & rossi wines I've run basically because I just wanted the gallon glass jug they were in, and failed wine batches, but those failed wine batches were after months and months of fermentation, I don't know how to do that in a speedy manner. The Tried & True section of these message boards is a great resource for recipes.

[Hound Dog]

Gonger, you said you didn't have a test tube to float the hydrometer in, if you are fermenting in a bucket, just drop it in. Do you have a flower vase around the house? You can probably use it. A piece of scrap pipe with a cap. A tall pilsner glass. Think outside the box. Then go online to Brewhaus or even Amazon and buy a kit with hydrometer, alcohol meter and tube for $12. You will need both. If you have a couple extra bucks get two kits because you will break one of something soon and will need it. Trust me here.

[Gonger]

Thanks for all the info. I actually do have a hydrometer that I got from my friend who brews beer, I just am kinda at a lose how to use it because it didn't come with a test tube to fill the mash with . The temperture in my apartment is at a constant 70 degrees.. Is this way to cold for the yeasties to do what they need to do? Also I currently have a Strawberry brandy mash going that I have had going for about 7 days now. I heard brandy doesn't need much more than 8 days for fermentation.

I would try to get it over that 70 degree mark. It would probably work at that temp (my wines ferment at that temp, but we're talking months and months on those), but raising the temp to over 85 will really speed things up. You can get a fish tank heater at Walmart for like $15. I ferment five gallons at a time, and that's how I keep my wash warm. I turn it up full-blast, suction cup it to the inside of my fermentation bucket with the included mount thing, and then plug it in. After washing and sterilizing it as best as possible, of course. I just put the lid on loosely and wrap the whole bucket and lid with a blanket and call it good.

To be honest I'm not even sure what that puts my temp at, all I know is that it works. I should probably get a temp next time I do that, see where I'm at.

You can get a Proof & Trailles hydrometer and a hydrometer jar on the internet for probably around $25 total. I personally consider them to be mandatory equipment, even if just so I know that my second and third runs don't go over 40% when I put them in the pot.. it's dangerous to put something in your pot that's more than 40%.

I don't know what to tell you with the brandy, the only brandy I've ever done is either cheap carlo & rossi wines I've run basically because I just wanted the gallon glass jug they were in, and failed wine batches, but those failed wine batches were after months and months of fermentation, I don't know how to do that in a speedy manner. The Tried & True section of these message boards is a great resource for recipes.

Ah Alright I'll look into the light I have some heat lamps from when I used to have a chameleon. The only problem I have with that is the electric bill being raised having that light on for weeks at a time.

[Gonger]

Gonger, you said you didn't have a test tube to float the hydrometer in, if you are fermenting in a bucket, just drop it in. Do you have a flower vase around the house? You can probably use it. A piece of scrap pipe with a cap. A tall pilsner glass. Think outside the box. Then go online to Brewhaus or even Amazon and buy a kit with hydrometer, alcohol meter and tube for $12. You will need both. If you have a couple extra bucks get two kits because you will break one of something soon and will need it. Trust me here.

Thanks. I tried a flower vase it was to hazy to see through the glass and get a good reading. I'm gonna look into ordering a hydrometer and alcohol meter and the tube later today. Do you think my local brew store would carry an alcohol meter?

[Gonger]

My strawberry brandy is giving me an SG of about 1.0, is it ready to ferment or should I be waiting? Also the mash does not taste sweet anymore.

[Hound Dog]

Gonger, you said you didn't have a test tube to float the hydrometer in, if you are fermenting in a bucket, just drop it in. Do you have a flower vase around the house? You can probably use it. A piece of scrap pipe with a cap. A tall pilsner glass. Think outside the box. Then go online to Brewhaus or even Amazon and buy a kit with hydrometer, alcohol meter and tube for $12. You will need both. If you have a couple extra bucks get two kits because you will break one of something soon and will need it. Trust me here.

Thanks. I tried a flower vase it was to hazy to see through the glass and get a good reading. I'm gonna look into ordering a hydrometer and alcohol meter and the tube later today. Do you think my local brew store would carry an alcohol meter?

They might carry one. Some do around here. You can also fill the vase to the top so you don't have to look through it..........