Bad News

[Stainless dude]

This came from another Forum
http://www.ttb.gov/press/fy14/press-rel ... ch2014.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow Admin edit.- Came off this link http://www.ttb.gov/spirits/index.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Could be a shit storm coming

[Halfbaked]

000000000000000000000hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Now that sucks.

[rad14701]

As I see it, it was just a matter of time before something like this transpired in the wake of the whole Moonshiners show and other shows bringing the craft back into the spotlight... Not to mention the number of recent upstart businesses making commercial offerings of stills and associated equipment...

[LWTCS]

As an aside, inspite of all this new enthusiasm I'd be willing to bet that revenues are up for all of the commercial spirts producers.

Not in spite of,, but because of.

[LWTCS]

And I would also wager that an overwhelming number of newly minted pro distillers learned the craft in the shadows.

There is a real oportunity here to turn lemons into lemonaid.
If they stop and think rather than simply react.

[Jimbo]

Guess its easier to hassle a pack of harmless hobbyists than find them meth labs and crack houses. If this witchhunt starts moving state to state might be time to bury some jars for posterity in the backyard and return the brew room to a beer only kitchen again.

Does anybody know if all 46 stills seized were purchased from a maker? Wonder if there's any home workshop stuff in the mix, which would indicate they're looking deeper than just maker lists.

[woodshed]

Definitely just a matter of time. TV portrays our craft as being easy enough for morons to do and law enforcement as not clever enough to catch them. That could get under your skin if you were in law enforcement.
Leaving a trail of crumbs to your front door by purchasing a still online just makes the job easier.

[bentstick]

"Does anybody know if all 46 stills seized were purchased from a maker? Wonder if there's any home workshop stuff in the mix, which would indicate they're looking deeper than just maker lists."


IMO this would give some sort of indication,unless selling was involved,or some other act!

[Jimbo]

TTB has a history of going after the 'makers of machines' , even if for personal use. Check this out. My buddy has one of these. They cant stop you from rolling your own, but they can try and stop the makers of the machines....

http://www.ttb.gov/announcements/ttb-an ... cement.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

There was another article about going after a guy who sold part of his wine collection, several hundred cases. They said it made him a retailer, and they went after him for $250 retailer fee. 250! yes only 1 zero there. Apparetnly no pursuit is too small for them

[MitchyBourbon]

Tea totaling bas$#%.

[Jimbo]

Theyre probably all lushes. But I like the acronym.

Spending 10's of thousands of our taxpayer money to go after a guy for 250 dollars. Thats our gooberment.

[Brendan]

There might be some humbled red faces from the naysayers that called out Tmschultz6 in Florida

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=46847

[dirtymax731]

I wonder if they are harassing people who just bought parts too or if its just full rigs?

[Stainless dude]

My understanding is they are required to supply info on buyers of stills and boilers, not for bits and pieces.

[bentstick]

dirtymax to the best of my knowledge since this stuff has kick off,they(the TTB) only have the requirements set to be able to track full stills,condensers,and not to sure about boilers at this time,that anyone has purchased from a manufacture or retailer of such equipment. I do not believe it is parts!

[Halfbaked]

Dirtymax I had a discussion on exactly what you are asking with a person that should know. He said as far as he knew it was only boilers and complete stills and condensers. He also said that they put those things in a bucket and and everything else in a bucket. He said he would give them what ever they asked for but he thought that the bucket with the stills, condencers, and boilers was what they were looking for. My answer is not a guarantee. sorry I was posting while other posting was going on

[Truckinbutch]

There might be some humbled red faces from the naysayers that called out Tmschultz6 in Florida

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=46847

I stand corrected and this is , indeed , bad news .

[Soggy Bottom Boy]

I think that perhaps this may only affect folks that had their stills shipped to a State where it is illegal to own a distillation apparatus. Just my gut feeling though, no real insight other than, "Why isn't it happening elsewhere in the Nation."

Although, if I were someone who purchased a rig from a U.S. commercial supplier and had it delivered to any State, I would definitely come up with a plausible scenario of how I got rid of the evil thing after I realized it was illegal to make hooch without a permit, blah, blah, etc., and then keep it somewhere else for a good long while.

[aquavita]

Little paranoid about this topic as I just started... Busted my leg pretty badly a short bit ago and have some a few washes and mashes that I will most likely lose due to spoilage... but one can always begin again.

Checked the website of the retailer where I purchased my boiler. They have a statement (buried a bit) stating that to date (when??) they have not been requested for client list(s). Not going to name them - don't want to give the boys-in-blue ideas on where to go next.

I spread my purchases around (clamps, ferrules, etc) and have made everything but the boiler (now wish I had that also).

Hope this is just a one-off event, but with everything going on today... I think that we hobbyists may be low hanging fruit for those that wish to make an "impression" on the public. (Rant now off... sorry for the soapbox again).

[Truckinbutch]

I called BS on this OP and another on the same day because I had heard the same urban legend rumor in my area several months ago . I was wrong on the current OP's and I am sorry for that .
Looks like something I posted earlier is bearing fruit .
That is : these Fed and State agencies have stepped on their dicks so many times in trying to eradicate meth labs and other hard drug distributors that they are working overtime to gain some positive press in a supportive media for benign busts on low level bullshit .

[sltm1]

Now, this is a biased opinion, but if you want to make your own hooch, you oughta be smart enough to make your own still (it's the theory of the book, "The Way Things Work" vol 1 & 2). Nut's and bolts will work as well as soldering so that's not an excuse. Knowing it's illegal is a given, unless you were born in the 1700's and buying something off ebay for illegal pruposes is just plain stupid by any stretch of the imagination. Perhaps there needs, (for nerds), to be a big sign on top of the "New Distillers Forum", "If You Buy, You Might Fry...Build Your Own Still !!" And, yes, I've been imbibing some of my "labor fruits" which sometimes makes me reamble abitttttttttttttttt........................hic.

[aquavita]

Yes - hobbyist distillers pose a real threat...

I worked/consulted with LE and some military groups for over 8 years. There really are 2 divergent groups out there - those cops that'd be behind bars if they were not cops and those that really want to help society and see the big picture.

Some I know would never waste the time on a non-selling hobbyist - others would bust their grandma for jaywalking or others that would never miss the opportunity to exert their will/force (bully) on another.


True Happening.
I know one Sgt. that neglected to put their squad into "Park" when stopping someone for rolling a stop sign - his squad rolled into the car he stopped. HE STILL GAVE THE GUY A TICKET!! If he did not give the ticket - the guy who got the ticket would not have called the Chief and get the Sgt. burned. Quite the "Fife" type.

[Tater]

Well lets just post the facts as they come in and leave off with the rants.

[goose eye]

Ain't nothing new. Loose lips sink ships.

All yall buyin parts off internet or craigslist.
You already let em inside the wire.

This ain't no dam game.
Boiler size makes a difference.
Ha ha ha

So I'm tole

[Old Anarchist]

hrm. i do wonder if they have a flag list. perhaps if someone buys certain items such as yeast or large amounts of sugar if that would flag the system. gotta admit, the gov. is more high tech than it used to be. perhaps they are stakin the forums on the net as well.

[woodshed]

No perhaps about it. If it has to do with distilling they are taking a look. It's a government trying to figure out what to do with a growing industry. That "industry" being home distilling. And these forums are the best way to put a finger on the pulse.

[bobtail]

Make you wonder why none of this has been in the news yet

[wv_cooker]

Just got off the phone with my local TTB Officer which just happens to be out of the Tampa Florida office. Kind of ironic as I am in WV. Told her that I would like to verify the record keeping process as I understand it for the manufacture of distilling equipment, i.e. stills, condensers, boilers, etc. Her comment to me was that they (the TTB) regulate product not equipment. I said well your regulations state that equipment manufacturers must keep records for 3 years and that when requested by the TTB officer those records must be given to the TTB. Her statement was yes that was the case but the regulation was in place to cover the manufacturer in case there was a problem with the final product that was created by the equipment. She stated that as long as the manufacturer covered his bases for the three years there should be no issues, they were not concerned with equipment was her exact statement. I said well as long as I follow the rules there are no forms or any other things that I should be aware of then just to make sure that I am legal in my venture. She said no I should be just fine.

I then asked her what required serial numbers, boilers, stills and condensers, and she said yes. I said there are no forms or requirements for me to send any info to you guys just build sell and keep records. Unless you guys request it then the records must be kept 3 years. She answered yes. She again reiterated that their main concern was product! I thanked her and hung up. Take this info for what it is worth to you I was just making sure that my bases were covered in my ventures. Here is a link to the regulations and they do state that a manufacturer must keep records of complete stills, boilers and condensers and make that information available to the TTB if requested by letter.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c= ... 24&idno=27

[Old Anarchist]

thanks for the info wv_cooker

[Doogie]

We all knew this was coming ... months ago when manufacturers declared the TTB asked for the lists. Nobody should be "shocked" at this action (surprised it happened finally, yes, shocked - not in the least).

I am no lawyer, but if you live in a state with no-still laws, you best come up with an excuse. If your state allows the ownership of stills, you best keep it clean and apart. Best not have some likker in sight.

Edit: that code being linked to - Section 29.55 (a) and (b) states still will be regarded as set up and subject to registry when it is in position over a furnace, or connected with a boiler so that heat may be applied, irrespective of whether a condenser is in position". My unlegal interpretation is that once you use it - even to boil mash for beer, you have effectively set up the still, and if unregistered in part (a), then you are violating that code

Thought - if you brought some old copper and stainless to a scrap yard, and "scrapped" the material, could the scrap yard give a receipt "stainless and copper - xx pounds"? Who cares if it is a still or not - Your Honor, I scrapped it once I learned from the TTB release that it was illegal. I never used it for likker making, but I was afraid to use it, sell it, own it, so I scrapped it, and this is all the damn scrap yard gave me for a receipt. Have your brother/friend scrap it in your name, make sure the weights are accurate enough. This way the yard will say "thats our receipt, it is legit, can't remember the fella though" - remember, reasonable doubt.

Point is, come up with a reasonable excuse to it's demise. Hide it, even for a few years if need be, and don't go to the Costco and load up on 20Kg bags of sugar and bulk packs of red star - keep low, quiet. If you ordered off the web, they are probably watching you.

Of course, after doing that, make sure not to order turbo yeast or copper packing off the internet ...