Heating Element Control

[goinbroke2]

Oh yeah? I modified my 4500W controller go past 10, past 12, all the way to CHERNOBYL!
That's like 10 bajillion BTU's baby!!!

[goinbroke2]

ferrules.jpg

I can take fabrication a bit far... why buy copper ferrules and fittings when you can turn them from solid copper bar? These are 1/8" FTP female threads, to be soldered into a 1/2" hole.

Oh man, I LOVE working on the metal lathe! Especially aluminum, I made filler plug extensions for the kids dragster, turned out awesome.

Well...not as awesome as a 10 bajillion BTU controller, but you know what I mean.

[BigSwede]

Oh man, I LOVE working on the metal lathe! Especially aluminum, I made filler plug extensions for the kids dragster, turned out awesome. Well...not as awesome as a 10 bajillion BTU controller, but you know what I mean.

I'm planning a mini Liebig condenser for collection off a LM reflux still, and rather than solder standard pipe fittings onto the jacket, why not simply turn a pair of small copper bushings to fit into the ends, and bore through them for the smaller vapor tube? Or, tap the bushings 1/4" FTP. It'd be as clean-looking a Liebig as can be!

Back OT - In the last couple of weeks, I gathered up an excess of power management devices... A crydom proportional SSR (240V/40A), a 4KW cheap eBay SCR unit, and its bigger brother, 10KW. These things:



Looking at the traces, the smaller unit does carry one of the leads through to the output side, so it looks like it can be used with 120V, a hot and a neutral, using the neutral as the carry-through lead, but the 10KW has traces from both inputs to the circuit, so I don't know if it can be used for both 120/240 VAC. I suspect it will work. I also picked up one of those $8 300VAC/100A digital combo meters. The amperage makes use of a coil that is placed over one of the power lines to the heater.

I tested the SCR units by wiring them to a 240V 500W cartridge heater. Both of the SCR units worked nicely, but they also had resolution issues. Fully 1/2 of the potentiometer knob turning did nothing... ALL of the adjustment was over the other half turn.

The digital meter actually worked nice, with one glaring flaw that I didn't even think of. Being self-powered off the AC line, when dialed back too far, it simply turns off, and that happened around 30 volts, so if one wants a digital meter, it must have a power input separate from the test input. Interestingly, I thought at first the current measurement was way off. The cartridge heater on full power was screaming hot, yet I was showing only 2.2A. Doing the basic formula of W = V x A, 2.2A times 235V = 517 watts, and right there, engraved on the heater, was its rating... 500W.

My analog AC meter worked smoothly and perfectly from 0 to 240VAC, so I think analog is the way to go.

Both inexpensive SCR devices have trimmer potentiometers on them. I think it'd be worthwhile to experiment a bit and see if resolution can't be improved. For the money, they seem to be really capable devices.

I still need to test the Crydom SSR, but I suspect it'll work perfectly. Crydom makes good stuff.

[bellybuster]

The digital meter actually worked nice, with one glaring flaw that I didn't even think of. Being self-powered off the AC line, when dialed back too far, it simply turns off, and that happened around 30 volts, so if one wants a digital meter, it must have a power input separate from the test input.

This is not an issue as at 30 volts nothing would be happening in your still anyway. The pots can be changed out on the all in one units to better linear taper pots that give full range of resistance.

[bellybuster]

Oh yeah? I modified my 4500W controller go past 10, past 12, all the way to CHERNOBYL!
That's like 10 bajillion BTU's baby!!!

Does it actually get hotter now??? just like racing strips on a car, makes'er go faster. I've been thinking of adding a couple numbers on mine but I'm afraid that I won't be able to handle the extra power.

[Bob Loblaw]

The digital meter actually worked nice, with one glaring flaw that I didn't even think of. Being self-powered off the AC line, when dialed back too far, it simply turns off, and that happened around 30 volts, so if one wants a digital meter, it must have a power input separate from the test input.

This is not an issue as at 30 volts nothing would be happening in your still anyway. The pots can be changed out on the all in one units to better linear taper pots that give full range of resistance.

I had a similar problem with my controller the way I initially had it wired - SD kit with a digital Amm/voltmeter. It was dimming/turning off the meter when I turned down the pot. I switched the ammeter lead from the outgoing side of the SSR to the incoming side and now it works correctly.

[goinbroke2]

Oh yeah? I modified my 4500W controller go past 10, past 12, all the way to CHERNOBYL!
That's like 10 bajillion BTU's baby!!!

Does it actually get hotter now??? just like racing strips on a car, makes'er go faster. I've been thinking of adding a couple numbers on mine but I'm afraid that I won't be able to handle the extra power.

I pretty sure I saw the lights dimming when I go wide open now and it didn't before so yeah, it's really freaking working! I took the stripes of my racecar and put on those "eco" decals, slowed down 3/10's but doubled my milage!

I'm just glad I didn't write something higher than chernobyl, like photon torpedo or something cause who knows how much heat it would make, be melting the solder off the lyne arm!

[raven_r_one]

After a ton of reading and experimenting and questions (thanks everyone), and spending too much money and breaking things and getting bad/wrong parts, I'm finished.

[raven_r_one]

P.s. - I'm not jazzed about how stubby the 1500 watt element is but it doesn't create as big of a hot spot as I thought it would. I will likely replace it with a 5500 watt element and just accept that it will run cooler than my 1500 one but with much more surface area.

Also - ammeter only registered 5 amps (sure that's wrong) - anyone have any recommendations?

[BigSwede]

5 amps doesnt sound too far off... 230V? Wattage equals volts x amps, so 230 x 5 amps equals 1150 watts or thereabouts. Not quite 1500, but not too far off. Is your system delivering full voltage to the element?

[raven_r_one]

Nope - 110/15a

[BigSwede]

Can you sample the AC voltage across the heating element when you have it on full blast?

[ukeman]

Hey guys,

Got my new 8 gallon 1500W electric pot still from Mile Hi a couple of weeks ago. Ran a couple batches so far. Having a problem with control of the heating element. It is thermostatically controlled. So either full 1500W on...or off. There is no control of how much heat is being added. What do I need to do here? Can I just buy an off the shelf 1500W dimmer switch and put that between the wall outlet and the heater itself? Will it work? My buddy says that if it is a 1500W element then I need at least a 2000W dimmer switch. Any help would be appreciated. Talked to Mike at Mile Hi and he said they are working on something....just nothing ready right now.

Other thing I have been told is to just buy a Router Speed Controller.....readily available and cheap!

Cheers!

[BigSwede]

Hey guys,

Got my new 8 gallon 1500W electric pot still from Mile Hi a couple of weeks ago. Ran a couple batches so far. Having a problem with control of the heating element.

....

Cheers!

Welcome ukeman. All I can suggest is "start reading this thread." All your questions will be answered.

In a nutshell, probably the easiest system for you is one of the solid state relays that have a potentiometer input. The potentiometer controls the output of the relay. The circuit is very simple, almost fool proof.

Please realize that MOST SSR's are either ON, or OFF. You want one that allows proportional control. They look the same!

On Amazon, there are a few examples.

Amico Voltage Resistance Regulator Solid State Relay SSR 40A 24-380V AC w Heat Sink

http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Voltage-Res ... B008DFWV4C

You connect a potentiometer to the input side, route the main power through the output side.

[ukeman]

Got a HD 20 Amp router speed controller and tried it tonight on my Mile Hi 1500 W electric heating element. Worked like a charm! Found that after heating to the boiling point, I switched it over to variable mode and left it on max and it was absolutely perfect! Have been told that when the dial is sex at max on variable it is putting out around 75% of maximum load. Anyway....what an ideal off the shelf solution! I just left the thermostatic controller at maximum to leave the circuit closed the whole time.

If have read many posts saying these things don't work. THEY DO!

[raven_r_one]

5 amps doesnt sound too far off... 230V? Wattage equals volts x amps, so 230 x 5 amps equals 1150 watts or thereabouts. Not quite 1500, but not too far off. Is your system delivering full voltage to the element?

It's all good now, I replaced the potentiometer and things are great (I can see it go just below 10 amps). Must have been shorted from one of my original "experiments".

[halo]

Hi has anyone built a controller here in nz ? I'm over buying gas for my keg so going electric
thinking 3000 element with controller. Any kiwi's want to post me a list of parts and where to buy from
would make life a lot easier. Cheers paul

[Stillernz]

Yup sure have! Best way to go is using 5500kw element then control it to what you want. Purchased camco element off amazon then scr, voltage meter and fan from aliexpress and then 6mm wire from bunnings along with a nice cheap container.

Fan
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/80mm-x-2 ... 52436.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Voltage meter
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rectangl ... 83372.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

SCR
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/AC-220-1 ... 21920.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Element
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000BPG4L ... Xtb06T0VAM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Element nut
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003GXF5EO/ref ... Xtb1BCA3MJ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Special to Jimbo's electric conversion helped me with this.


Only thing you need to do us get an electrician to wire it in, in NZ we can get a 32amp stove plug and lead to make it plug and play too.

[Stillernz]

Halo, the best thread to read on here is

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46472

Jimbo's conversion is brilliant!

If you know someone with a trade account at bunnings stuff is way cheaper too

All the best with the conversion it's an enjoyable exercise building this little controller. If recommend getting a simple USB fan or paying a little more and get a 220v computer fan and wiring it straight in. All on aliexpress.

[halo]

Cheers stillernz looks like I'll have to buy most from the net . Bugger have to put it off as going away
for august .

[Stillernz]

Yeah Best value is online, here is a few more pics aswell

[halo]

Very nice I was going to wire it up to hot water cylinder in my shed
we have 2 cylinders in the house Don't use the 1 out side .

[Stillernz]

Awesome, yeah I have a hot water cylinder waiting for me to build it into a large still one day, but I have sorted out an old euro 60 but only using the boiler, camco element and added new reflux, condenser etc so it's now home style and so much better.

One member on here found this package but it's pricey if one doesn't want to source parts individually. http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=191109881647" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[CanadianBacon]

Oh yeah? I modified my 4500W controller go past 10, past 12, all the way to CHERNOBYL!
That's like 10 bajillion BTU's baby!!!

Does it actually get hotter now??? just like racing strips on a car, makes'er go faster. I've been thinking of adding a couple numbers on mine but I'm afraid that I won't be able to handle the extra power.

I pretty sure I saw the lights dimming when I go wide open now and it didn't before so yeah, it's really freaking working! I took the stripes of my racecar and put on those "eco" decals, slowed down 3/10's but doubled my milage!

I'm just glad I didn't write something higher than chernobyl, like photon torpedo or something cause who knows how much heat it would make, be melting the solder off the lyne arm!

I ordered the same controller after reading a bazillion confusing ways to hook this shit up, Very nice seeing it built! You mind sharing were and what you got to plug it into the dryer outlet and how its all wired up to element, its abit hard to see. How has it been holding up? the fan was a great idea to increase cooling.

[Stillernz]

I've got my electrician to have wired a stove plug in by my fuse box, then it's wired straight from the box to the element. The fan is required to keep the ssr from over heating. I to keep it looking nice I used longer self tapping screw which go in then leaving a gap between the box and the fan to allow suction of air. Probably will drill some holes in the container for cooler/fresher air. Will get some more photos.

[redfrog]

One thing I didn't see mentioned and should be noted is the triac heat sink. Some triacs have an insulated heatsink tab, and others don't. If you use the non-insulated type and bolt it directly to a grounded heatsink, it suffers instant death upon either power up, or commutation.

sry if this has been answerd, but how does one tell if the triac is insulated or not? and if not how do you insulate it? is a slap of electric tape between the heat sink and the triac enough?

thanks

[rad14701]

One thing I didn't see mentioned and should be noted is the triac heat sink. Some triacs have an insulated heatsink tab, and others don't. If you use the non-insulated type and bolt it directly to a grounded heatsink, it suffers instant death upon either power up, or commutation.

sry if this has been answerd, but how does one tell if the triac is insulated or not? and if not how do you insulate it? is a slap of electric tape between the heat sink and the triac enough?

thanks

No, tape is not considered enough and it would also cause the triac to fail due to heat overload... Every triac has a part number on it and that can be looked up using Google to find the manufaturers specifications... You are better off buying a known insulated triac... I have a controller that uses a non-insulated triac and have to be very careful when working on it live... The entire heat sink is live, but on insulated isolator posts... It's just not worth the risk to go the non-insulated route...

Do you have a question about a specific triac...???

[redfrog]

Do you have a question about a specific triac...???

thanks rad,
ordered the littelfuse q6040j7... i dont remember seeing any mention about isolation in the specs of the catalog... i thought they were since pinto screwed his straight into the box but the guy at the part store i ordered from told me i had to isolate if mounted on a grounded heatsink... my heatsink is connected to the box which is grounded, hence my confusion here

[rad14701]

Do you have a question about a specific triac...???

thanks rad,
ordered the littelfuse q6040j7...

Q6040J7 is an isolated triac... Checking the PDF data sheet is the best way to determine all of the associated specifications... I have most of the data sheet PDF's saved locally...

[BigSwede]

Rad, Q for you... for those with triacs and can't get the data - can you slap an ohm meter across the heatsink, and then test each lead in turn, looking for continuity? Which would indicate commonality between the heat sink and one of the leads?

I haven't worked with these devices before.