Absinthe Absinthe Absinthe

[kiwi Bruce]

Opening a new topic to start some new discussion on the ever increasing interest in Absinthe. So after a century since the ban absinthe is slowly coming back. The recipes that we have seen from the treatises were just generalizations. For example, the recipe for Montpellier, in 1890 there were over ninety Absinthe distilleries in the town. Every one of these had to have their own taste profile. The other thing that is becoming obvious is that the original drink was a lot more subtle than we were led to believe. We were told that Pernod is just abs without the wormwood, not true! Pernod is closer to Ouzo than Absinthe. So what were your taste experiences? Please post your recipes and experiences. Kiwi

[rad14701]

Have you read the other topics on Absinthe...???

[kiwi Bruce]

Yes I have. They were all started several years ago, I thought that starting a new topic on Absinthe would keep the topic current. Kiwi

[Jimbo]

Pernod is closer to Ouzo than Absinthe.

Disagree. Ouzo is sweet and syrupy. Pernod (and Ricard) brands of Pastis are significantly higher proof, and far less sweet. Not syrupy. Drank plenty enough of all 3.

I have an Absinthe thread on here thats among those Rad asked you about. Those threads already cover our recipes and taste experiences that youre asking for. Not sure too many are gonna want to rehash it all again just cause you dont want to read.

[kiwi Bruce]

Did a site search, not much came up. It's not that I don't want to read other posts, I couldn't find them. Suggestions? You've been around this site for what 4500+ posts. And as at aside, this was my first ever new topic post, I just thought it might generate some interest, that's all. Kiwi

[T-Pee]

Go up to the upper right hand corner-->Advanced Search-->type "absinthe"-->ENTER-->Read.

tp

[kiwi Bruce]

Got it! 55 pages of absinthe inspired fun. Thank you T-pee! Bruce

[T-Pee]

Easy when you know the secret, huh?

tp

[skow69]

What is it about absinthe that draws this kind of response? Start a thread about rum or vodka or kahlua or cumquat schnopps, nobody requires you to read everything ever written. Nobody tells you there is nothing left to say or accuses you of lazyness. Here is a link to Jimbo's thread: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... t=absinthe although some would hesitate to call it absinthe since it contains no A. pontica, lemon balm, or hyssup, the A. absinthium is about 50%, anise 20% and fennel 10% of traditional. But experimentation is what keeps things interesting, so thanks for sharing jimbo. The only thing that really matters is that you like what you made.

It sounds like you have made quite a study of vintage absinthe and the belle epoque. I knew it was considered the national drink of France, but 90 producers in Montellier is truly impressive. Most such discussions don't get much beyond Van Gogh and the Lanfray murders. What did you mean about the originals being more subtle than previously thought? Does this come from the chemistry types analysing the old bottles in the attempt to replicate them? I haven't been fortunate enough to get a taste of a vintage, myself, and I fear I never will.

I'll be back later with a recipe and more thoughts about a very underrated beverage.

[Jimbo]

My response to Kiwi was pretty out of character for me, and was a knee jerk to him simultaneously discounting threads cause they're 2 years old, while asking for people to post their recipes and taste notes (already contained in the very threads he's discounting) and then making a false statement about Pastis. But thanks SKOW for nailing me about it, and for pointing out the flaws in my absinthe. Whatever makes you feel righteous and good about setting all the wrongs in the world right.

Bruce, appologies for my snappy response. Start up another thread or chime in on an existing one. We love to talk shop and explore recipes.

[rad14701]

I'm fairly certain there is a relatively newer topic about absinthe which was started by someone who is craft distilling absinthe... Regardless, for a newer member to expect those who have already participated in similar topics to simply post their recipes so they don't need to do the research themselves is what prompted me to make the initial post I made... Many of those other topics have multiple recipes in them already, as one would discover if they were to take the time to research them... How do I know...??? Because I read them when they were active... Not because I have an interest, but because until recently I was reading every post on a daily basis... I'm a little behind right now, but now a whole lot behind... If all you do is hunt and pack you miss a lot of good information that might promote new ideas... And, after all, I'm retired...

[skow69]

You are right, Jimbo, it was out of character, and I took unfair advantage of your absinthe post. That was my knee jerk response to the newbee abuse that sometimes shows up on this board. I understand the frustration with guys who demand an explanation for why their 17% turbo wash tastes like shit and then argue with the replies. But I thought the OP here had raised a fresh perspective with his comments about the 19th century documents, and his attempt to bring pastis into the discussion. I just didn't want him to get a page full of negatives and delete HD from his browser. He might have something interesting to say.

So I hope we can put all that behind us, and I would like to humbly offer my current favorite recipe. It won't revolutionize absinthe production but I think it is worthwhile in that there is certainly more variety in absinthe herb bills than sugarhead recipes or whiskey grain bills.

Quantities are in grams per 1 liter.
A. a. [unstripped] --- 25
Anise ---------------- 140
Fennel --------------- 100
Coriander ------------- 10
Calimus ---------------- 3
Angelica --------------- 7
Chamomile ------------ 4
Genepi ----------------- 2
Mint ------------------- 10
Cardamom ------------- 3
Carraway ---------------3
Costmary -------------- 3

Colorators
A. pontica ------------- 3
Hyssup ----------------- 2
Lemon Balm ----------- 3
Veronica ---------------- 1
mint -------------------- 1

I gave up stripping the grand wormwood cuz it tears the hell out of my hands, and I found an old picture of somebody in Pontarlier loading a boiler with a bundle of four foot long stocks. They say most of the flavor is in the leaves and flowers so i bumped up the quantity to compensate.

There are more notes but real life calls. I'll elaborate if there is interest.

[kiwi Bruce]

I was doing some research on the history of Absinthe, for the purpose of possibly publishing an E-Book. There were a number of very interesting facts came to light. Things like:- there were only five cities who’s absinthe could be called “Swiss” Montpelier, Pontarlier, Lyon, Couvet and Flourier.
A little history. The French wine industry was dead, it started to die around the time of the American civil war, and by the early 1870’s it was gone, killed by an aphid, Phylloxera, that poisoned the grape rootstock. People have got to drink something and the French, rich and poor, turned to Absinthe. By the turn of the century the French were drinking thirty six million liters of Absinthe a year!
The wealthiest men of the world owned the grand wine estates of France, they still do. They found a cure for their dead vineyards, the aphid does not kill grape vines from America. So the fine French vines were grafted onto American rootstock, and soon wine began to be produced in great quality and quantity again. But it had been nearly a century since the wine industry flourished it France. The French didn't want to drink wine anymore. So these wealthy men spent ten years and tens of millions of Franks turning public opinion against Absinthe. They succeeded of course, and Absinthe was banned.

[InglisHill]

Newbie abuse probably causes more newbies to leave the site than it does retain them and teach them safety.

Don't worry about it too much kiwi, abs is not my thing personally, but I am still interested in what you are doing. I remember doing some research on wormwood, which was supposed to be a hallucinogenic. Tuns out not so much.

Much like the worm at the bottom of the bottle of tequila, it gets you real smashed, if you just finished the bottle then this is always going to be the case. You will probably hallucinate after that as well.

There are some goods points of view about it on erowid dot org if I remember correctly.

[T-Pee]

What is it about absinthe that draws this kind of response?

It's French...well, Swiss originally but you get the idea.

tp

[Jimbo]

Thats a truckload of stuff skow, where did you get that recipe, and where do you get your herbs?

Only thing missing is to get together and taste all these variations on a theme. I think mine tastes fine, others do too. But admittedly Im not an absinthe aficionado. Have drank gallons of Ricard tho in years past, for whatever thats worth in an Absinthe discussion

[Bohunk]

I have asked this question several time before, but here goes again. What the hell is green anise?? I have never seen it advertised, I see only anise... I am going to play around with making absinthe, and am still looking for a source for the herbs. The Mountain source says "nothing untill summer", so it's almost summer, and I'm ready. Jimbo, your my hero, I do as you say, going to use your recipe, but -- I have anise up the anise, but no GREEN anise. Help me out here.

The Ole Bohunk

[Jimbo]

LOL, Im no hero. I bought my herbs at Starwest Botanicals online. Green Anise is this stuff.... http://www.healthysupplies.co.uk/aniseed-hampshire.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow Different from Star Anise which is this stuff from a different critter... http://www.healthysupplies.co.uk/whole-star-anise.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

They taste similar (licorice) but Green anise is used in Absinthe and Star Anise is used Pastis. Or so I read on the WWW so it must be true, right.

This is a good site with lots of info... http://www.feeverte.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[kiwi Bruce]

Jimbo Thank you, much to read and discuss. Kiwi

[Jimbo]

Fun stuff these crazy recipes. Skow says I should have used 5X more anise and 10X more fennel. I dunno man, this is already over the top licoricey. I guess it personal preference but mine seems very herb forward, any more and it might be hard to choke down. Gotta play around and decide what you like tho. That recipe was my first stab at it after reading everyone elses recipe first, and some online sites. I like it. Others here are clearly more absinthe savvy tho if youre a purist. There's a bunch of recipes here on HD and elsewhere online, lots of old recipes too (100+ years old) which differ pretty dramatically one to the other sometimes

[skow69]

Careful, tp, people will think you're francophobic.

Newbie abuse probably causes more newbies to leave the site than it does retain them and teach them safety.

Bingo!

I remember doing some research on wormwood, which was supposed to be a hallucinogenic. Tuns out not so much.

I don't believe in the "secondary effect" of absinthe, but there is something very special about grand wormood. When I got my first batch of good wormwood I opened the bag and took a big whif. My eyes crossed and I felt tingly all over. I wanted to crawl inside the bag and live there. It was a most wonderful feeling. One of the commercial producers tells a story about having stripping parties where he gets a bunch of friends in to strip a pile of wormood for the next batch of absinthe. He says there is no problem getting volunteers because they all enjoy the high so much. Fortunately it dissipates when they hit fresh air or they would need designated drivers.

Bruce--I would love to see your book. Absinthe has such a rich history. I have this mental image of Dr. Ordinaire strolling through the Val-de-Travers, eyeball deep in a sea of Artimesia, high as a kite, thinking "This stuff just has to be good for what ails you. I will make a beverage from it, possibly with alcohol. It will be my gift to humanity."

[T-Pee]

Careful, tp, people will think you're francophobic.

That would be funny considering I'm French Creole.

tp (red beans an' rice, child!)

[skow69]

Thats a truckload of stuff skow, where did you get that recipe, and where do you get your herbs?

Only thing missing is to get together and taste all these variations on a theme. I think mine tastes fine, others do too. But admittedly Im not an absinthe aficionado. Have drank gallons of Ricard tho in years past, for whatever thats worth in an Absinthe discussion

Har! Yeah, when I dump out the pot after a run, sometimes it looks like quite a pile of vegitation. The recipe changes with each batch, of course, although not as much as it used to. Somebody wrote on another forum once, "I have no patience with wimpy, thin absinthe that won't louche properly without bribery or coercion." I guess I belong to that school. I want the louche to be totally opaque, milky white opalescent, preferably with oil trails along the way. It needs to change from yellowish to blue-greenish in the light. I don't always get it, but that is the goal.

I actually started with one of the absithe kits you find on the internet. Boy, was that a bad idea. So I built a still and tried the standard 25, 50, 50 recipe from Brevens and Duplai. The product was disapointingly bland (which probably had a lot to do with the herbs I used) so I kept adding ingredients from everything I could find to read. Luckily the internet knows everything, right? but once again I got to prove that some of that information is shockingly bad. The recipe is always a work in progress, but this is the best I've got so far. I get the ingredients from Mountain Rose, Cascade, and Absintheherbs. I prefer to trade locally, but my experience has been that herb quality is everything.

this is already over the top licoricey

I am a long way from being an expert, but my guess would be that's from the star anise and the lack of fennel. The fennel is there to temper the anise. Star anise is generally not preferred because it tends to overpower the more subtle flavors. Makes for a hell of a louche, though.

any more and it might be hard to choke down

There are COs that are just "too much" for me. I've only had a couple of the Eichlebergers and one of the Bairnsfathers (sp), but the ones I had were just too "dark, or strong, or heavy" or something like that. Absinthe for me should be refreshing and easy to drink. Others obviously disagree, because they are very popular and get good ratings. I think it's all about the balance. That's the challenge. Getting the right balance. Hell, Duplai even has a line they named "Balance." Ironically, it's not that well balanced. Har!

Thanks for listening to me babble. I love to talk about this stuff.

Skol,
skow

[Jimbo]

Next one I do Ill follow your lead, and ditch the star anise too. More green anise and fennel. And lemon balm etc. Ever used star west botanicals? I was pretty happy with the quality. The wormwood is wild stuff. Ever chew a mouthfull? Weeeee bitter. Wild the bitterness doesnt come over in vapor. Ill have to pick up some commercial bottles.

[Jimbo]

PS did you see the louch in my recipe post. I bottled at 136 proof. It louches nice with some cubes melting.

[sweeps]

I prefer to trade locally, but my experience has been that herb quality is everything.

+1, as the kids say these days. I'm a firm believer that quality is at least as important as quantity in your herb bill and at the risk of sounding like an absinthe snob (I swear I'm not), I don't believe you can make great absinthe with regular store bought wormwood.

[kiwi Bruce]

Hi Skow69 This is a part of the intro and conclusion. I'm only on the second re-write, a ways to go yet.
"A little history. The French wine industry was dead, it started to die around the time of the American civil war, and by the early 1870’s it was gone, killed by an aphid, Phylloxera, that poisoned the grape rootstock. People have got to drink something and the French, rich and poor, turned to Absinthe. By the turn of the century the French were drinking thirty six million liters of Absinthe a year!
The wealthiest men of the world owned the grand wine estates of France, they still do. They found a cure for their dead vineyards, the aphid does not kill grape vines from America. So the fine French vines were grafted onto American rootstock, and soon wine began to be produced in great quality and quantity again. But it had been nearly a century since the wine industry flourished it France. The French didn't want to drink wine anymore. So these wealthy men spent ten years and tens of millions of Franks turning public opinion against Absinthe. They succeeded of course, and Absinthe was banned."
My problem has been making a beverage that tastes close to what was made a century ago. I thought that a Pastis, as Jimbo rightly called it, was the benchmark. I even got my paws on a bottle of Spanish and a half bottle of Romanian Abs. Everything I've made following the Treatises was no where close to what I expected. I would describe them as light. with a subtle Aniseed flavor and a depth of low under flavors. So I gave up for a while. Then last week a got an e-mail from an English outfit that is cold distilling Abs. They were given a sample of Pernod-Fils from 1910, to build their recipe from. Low and behold, their tasting notes are just like mine. They are selling small samples - 10 mls- for $10 I'll order mine next week. So, very encouraged, today I'm soaking my herbs, tomorrow I cook. Keep you posted. Kiwi

[skow69]

Ever used star west botanicals? I was pretty happy with the quality. The wormwood is wild stuff. Ever chew a mouthfull? Weeeee bitter. Wild the bitterness doesnt come over in vapor. Ill have to pick up some commercial bottles.

Nope. Never tried star west. What did the wormwood look like that you got from them?
Chew a mouthful? Are you insane?
Be careful what you buy. There is some real crap out there flying under terrific advertising. And bad absinthe is really really bad. AND Price is no gauge of quality! AND In general, the cooler the bottle it's in, the worse the absinthe.

Good luck.

[skow69]

I don't believe you can make great absinthe with regular store bought wormwood.

You mean the stuff that looks like it went through a chipper and you'd have to do DNA analysis to tell what plant it came from? Yeah, that's what I got first time around.

Now I sound like an absinthe snob, and I swear I'm not either. (I know that guy.) I just really like good absinthe.

Artemisia absinthium

You can't see them in my lousy picture, but they're covered with tiny little flowers.
I wish I could post the aroma.

[NZChris]

I occasionally pluck a leaf and chew it. It makes a nice tea too. Sometimes I put some in my ginger beer to give it some bite.

I don't have worms