Is it safe to buy from Mile High?

Post by **T-Pee** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:02 am

The onus is still on the purchaser to know local laws pertaining to their purchases. To blame the vendor is disingenuous.

tp

Mr Shine · Post by **Mr Shine** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:49 am

dudasaj wrote:I purchased a column and condenser unit.

OK. Thank you for answering that.

I'm sorry for your troubles, but that I'm sure provides possible relief to a bunch of people who've bought other, non-still related equipment from them.

Does anyone know of anyone (or them, themselves) getting a letter due to their purchase of anything other than a boilers, still heads, or condensers?

I don't make anything other than beer, but I've bought hydrometers, tri-clamps, and amylase from MHD and still wonder if they've turned over the names of people who've bought things other than stills from them.

Bob Loblaw · Post by **Bob Loblaw** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:09 am

Mr Shine wrote:
dudasaj wrote:I purchased a column and condenser unit.
OK. Thank you for answering that.

I'm sorry for your troubles, but that I'm sure provides possible relief to a bunch of people who've bought other, non-still related equipment from them.

Does anyone know of anyone (or them, themselves) getting a letter due to their purchase of anything other than a boilers, still heads, or condensers?

I don't make anything other than beer, but I've bought hydrometers, tri-clamps, and amylase from MHD and still wonder if they've turned over the names of people who've bought things other than stills from them.

This was covered in a previous post - but here's the link again, straight from the horses mouth

milehidistilling wrote:They are asking for complete stills also towers and boilers. Not supplies

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p7084740

Mr Shine · Post by **Mr Shine** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:47 am

Thank you. I'm sorry I missed that (don't know how I could have). My apologies.

alpine · Post by **alpine** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:01 pm

dudasaj - how long ago was your purchase? I recently (March) bought a complete rig from MH and haven't received a letter or anything.

Post by **rad14701** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:35 pm

alpine wrote:dudasaj - how long ago was your purchase? I recently (March) bought a complete rig from MH and haven't received a letter or anything.

Mile-Hi had records requested last summer... There is a topic about it...

alpine · Post by **alpine** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:37 pm

rad14701 wrote:
alpine wrote:dudasaj - how long ago was your purchase? I recently (March) bought a complete rig from MH and haven't received a letter or anything.
Mile-Hi had records requested last summer... There is a topic about it...

That's why I was asking. I bought right after the Florida thing and have been kinda paranoid ever since.

OBX Phantom · Post by **OBX Phantom** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:19 am

I just received a letter from the TTB this past tues. 06/17/14 there was 2 letters in it the first letter was a brag letter saying that they had been conducting an inves. in Florida and had arrested 8 people and seized 46 stills. The 2nd. letter said that it had come to the atten. of the TTB that I may have purchased a still capable of making alc. and/or eqip. and materials that may be used in the manufacture of a still.

Now since this inves. was conducted in Fla. I am assuming that the info. that they received on me came from Still Dragon.com since they are located in Fla. If this is so then the only things that I have purchased from Still Dragon.com would be a DIY controller package, and cone shaped piece of copper tubing.

So my advice to anyone thinking of buying anything from a still manufacturer would be to not do it and to make everything yourself.

Post by **ShineonCrazyDiamond** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:51 am

OBX Phantom wrote:I just received a letter from the TTB this past tues. 06/17/14 there was 2 letters in it the first letter was a brag letter saying that they had been conducting an inves. in Florida and had arrested 8 people and seized 46 stills. The 2nd. letter said that it had come to the atten. of the TTB that I may have purchased a still capable of making alc. and/or eqip. and materials that may be used in the manufacture of a still.

Now since this inves. was conducted in Fla. I am assuming that the info. that they received on me came from Still Dragon.com since they are located in Fla. If this is so then the only things that I have purchased from Still Dragon.com would be a DIY controller package, and cone shaped piece of copper tubing.

So my advice to anyone thinking of buying anything from a still manufacturer would be to not do it and to make everything yourself.

I wonder if the cone was considered a still head?

That just freaks me out, now. i bought a DIY controller from them. That is the only thing that I bought from a manufacturer. Did you call them to see what was what?

Also, was that the only still manufacturer that you bought from?

If I get Letter, the fun might be over

.

Bob Loblaw · Post by **Bob Loblaw** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:01 am

OBX Phantom wrote:I just received a letter from the TTB this past tues. 06/17/14 there was 2 letters in it the first letter was a brag letter saying that they had been conducting an inves. in Florida and had arrested 8 people and seized 46 stills. The 2nd. letter said that it had come to the atten. of the TTB that I may have purchased a still capable of making alc. and/or eqip. and materials that may be used in the manufacture of a still.

Now since this inves. was conducted in Fla. I am assuming that the info. that they received on me came from Still Dragon.com since they are located in Fla. If this is so then the only things that I have purchased from Still Dragon.com would be a DIY controller package, and cone shaped piece of copper tubing.

So my advice to anyone thinking of buying anything from a still manufacturer would be to not do it and to make everything yourself.

You mean that cone they sell that looks like it could only be used as a lyne arm on a pot still? That might be the issue. The DIY controller kit could be used for anything. They're not going to cast around looking for people on that one. It's a cheap and easy beer making controller. I doubt they could get a warrant because either of those though - and if they did, doubt it would stand up to a challenge. Just don't let 'em in your house.

Post by **LWTCS** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:29 pm

OBX you assume too much.

Post by **White_Lightning_Rod** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:43 pm

LWTCS wrote:OBX you assume too much.

Good thing to hear from a good source.

Bob Loblaw · Post by **Bob Loblaw** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:23 am

White_Lightning_Rod wrote:
LWTCS wrote:OBX you assume too much.
Good thing to hear from a good source.

+1

Post by **ShineonCrazyDiamond** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:24 am

LWTCS wrote:OBX you assume too much.

jebar77 · Post by **jebar77** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:44 pm

I purchased a milk pot, cover and flanges. Only. Got letter today

Post by **rad14701** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:03 pm

jebar77 wrote:I purchased a milk pot, cover and flanges. Only. Got letter today

That would be considered a boiler... Had it been purchased from a dairy supply distributor it would just be dairy equipment... Nobody buys dairy equipment from Mile-Hi...

Cav Scout · Post by **Cav Scout** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:33 pm

Bought a boiler and still head from Mile Hi last year. Just got home from a long day at work and saw my letter from the TBB... Same one everyone's been receiving lately. Shit!

NWSHINE · Post by **NWSHINE** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:24 pm

I purchased a flute from them... What is the thrust of this letter?
"We know what you have, don't do anything stupid with it!"???

jebar77 · Post by **jebar77** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:51 am

Pretty much....

Post by **BigSwede** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:12 am

Common sense applies, the gubbernment has MUCH bigger fish to fry.

Don't talk. Don't brag, don't be stupid. Don't have mason jars full of hooch in your car. If it must leave your house, transfer it to old liquor bottles, but obviously NOT with the intent to pass off a home-made as some $400/liter liquor. It's disguise only. Or place it in something really benign.

Obviously never, ever sell.

#1 rule, NEVER let police into your house without a warrant.

Keep your stuff clean, disassembled, put away.

It might not be a bad idea to take up beer and/or wine making. For real.

If I were to start over again, I'd obviously avoid any commercial boiler, condenser, or still. Small components are fine IMO.

Doogie · Post by **Doogie** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:14 pm

OK, lets remember something pretty basic here ... I am no lawyer, but here is how I see "#1 rule, NEVER let police into your house without a warrant"

Law: Knock knock - hey sir, I am here with the TTB - we believe you have a still - can we talk
Stiller: No, and no you cannot come into my home without a warrant
Law: Oh, well, we have info you Mr. Stiller of 1234 Likker Lane bought a still from IcantSolder.com and used a credit card registered to a Mr. stiller with the same billing address as yours. Can we come in and talk?
Stiller: HELL NO IZ GOTS RIGHTS AND CONSTITUTION AND SUCH AND IZ SAY GETS OFF MY PROPERTY
Law: OK sir, we will leave ...

Law then walks off the property, then calls his boss, gets backup to surround yer house to make sure you dont get away with the equipment (of course, they will pull you over if you leave your home, citing some BS like thought you were drunk, taillight flickering that can't be repeated, etc, etc). Then his boss calls the judge

Boss: Heya judge, good golf game the other day
Judge: Ya, was great all that moonshine you brought from the evidence room for review hahahaha - what can I do you for sir?
Boss: Well, I have some hick preaching I can't search his home for a likker still I think he has
Judge: Well, you cant without ***probable cause***
Boss: Well, you see, I have a purchase information from the still maker - they show who bought it, who paid for it, where it was shipped to, when it was shipped, and if needed we as fedex to give us the signed acceptance of the package, but that will take a lot of time for the "understanding the appeals of prostitutes on males in society" meeting ... so can you see my point I have enough probable cause to think that this person has an illegal still and gimme a warrant???
Judge: Well, put it that way, yes, I think you have probable cause. Heck, we bust people's doors down for suspecting a drug dealer based on bullshit info from drug addicts ... so yes, here is the warrant information over the phone, you bring the Trojans for the meeting, and I will call Joe down at the hardware store to get an exterior door ready for installation.

Point - i am not a lawyer, but I think with that list they have probable cause ALREADY. If you are really a little hobby dude/ette, then maybe, just MAYBE being a bit cooperative will make you one of the 40 that got a warning/ticket/seazure and not one of the 8 that got to meet a full room of new boyfriends ...

They already have you ...

Post by **BigSwede** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:45 am

I hear ya. It's a personal choice, whether you want to let them in. But there are just way too many horror stories of what happens when you DO, without knowing your rights.

Real life example, this happened to my son. We are in the USA so for our NZ, Aussie, European friends, this obviously relates to our own laws.

I had instructed him thoroughly in his constitutional rights, specifically relating to unlawful searches of his car. He was going to meet a friend, and they do this by joining up in a particular church parking lot. My son got there early, parked his car, turned on the radio, and waited.

A cop rolls up. The exchange went something like this:

cop: "License and proof of insurance please." My son complies.

cop: "Listen, I know this area, I've seen you around here, I think you're dealing pot out of that car. But maybe not. I'd like to search your car, we can clear this up right now, you can be on your way."

son: "I'm sorry sir, I'm here to meet my friend. Don't sell drugs, don't do drugs. I cannot let you search my car."

cop: "This is going to get REAL ugly, REAL quick, if I don't get a little cooperation from you. (Cop begins to intimidate my son in a big way.)

son: "no sir, you cannot search my vehicle."

cop: "Step out of the car, now." My son does so, gets frisked quickly. Then the cop really turns it up a notch. "I CAN HAVE A DRUG DOG HERE IN MINUTES. SOON AS HE SIGNALS, I'LL HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE, I WILL SEARCH THAT VEHICLE!!"

son: "no sir, you cannot search my vehicle."

This went on for a while, my boy stands firm. In the end, cop says "have a good day" and leaves. My son had no drugs, no alcohol. Why didn't he just let the cop search? Bad things can happen. What if one of his friends had stuffed a roach under a seat? What if there was a long-forgotten empty beer can somewhere in there? Worst of all, what if the cop is a crooked SOB, needs a bust, and plants dope? It happens all the time. And cops are not gentle in a search, they'll tear up your car and leave you the mess.

I'll exercise every single right I have, and that includes me not saying squat, and requiring a warrant for any sort of search. Besides, depending upon State law, sometimes the equipment is OK, but using it to make distilled spirits is not, and if there is no shine in your house, there's no evidence to use against you.

Post by **Stilldrunk** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:29 pm

So if you are in canada who does your still purchase get reported to? Still the TTB?

Post by **milehidistilling** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:35 am

We don't report to anybody shipping to Canada

Stilldrunk wrote:So if you are in canada who does your still purchase get reported to? Still the TTB?

Doogie · Post by **Doogie** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:22 pm

Hmm .. business opportunity here ...

@milehidistilling, I offer an "arrangement".

Your orders go thru me ... I have a new company - milefromtheborderdistilling ... you ship to me in canuckada, I ship to your clients. When the TTB comes knocking, you say "easy enough - I can give the record verbally - we sold 7,329 stills of various forms to some guy named Doogie in Canada ... here is his name, address, number, payment info"

TTB walks away, scratching their heads, wonder how the heck it is going to happen ...

Seriously though ... if you were right across the border, you import them into Canada, in bond, not for sale in Canada, and then export them right out. Heck, drive right to the Canada Post outlet and ship it ... and when the TTB calls, you just give them your one client name and info, for the 17 thousand stills and parts you sold the last 3 years. Gotta love free trade ...

If you do this and it works, as compensation, I would humbly request one of your super sexy flute things, and a boiler ...

Bob Loblaw · Post by **Bob Loblaw** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:27 pm

except I bet it is illegal to ship a still into the US from Canada...

Doogie · Post by **Doogie** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Stilldrunk wrote:So if you are in canada who does your still purchase get reported to? Still the TTB?

only thing I would suggest is spacing out the shipments of parts - so the boiler, condeser, etc, etc ..

Owning a still *IS* illegal in Canada. Owning parts of a still *IS* illegal also. Excise Act - check it out.

However ... sending the boiler as a "milk can" or "pot" is fine
Sending the condensor as a "heat exchanger" would be OK
Sending the column as "metallic art" may work.

Send them all together, some inspector may get smart ... dunno ... but if they do your still is gone ... and I doubt you would deserve a refund. Although i highly doubt many would know a still is illegal ...

Send them as parts, seperately over weeks ... I am sure a friendly manufacturer for a small price would assist.

Doogie · Post by **Doogie** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:31 pm

Bob Loblaw wrote:except I bet it is illegal to ship a still into the US from Canada...

Dunno - I got a coil thru from a fellow forum person.

It would be up to the inspector to know the excise act ... and then be smart enough to enquire if the recipient has a valid permit for the still. Worst case, if they banged on your door, you could play stupid - needs to be verified, I do not think the Exise act states penalties and fines and imprisionment for possession of wash/mash, equipment nor possession ... they do for selling ... but none of the others.

And from the US side, if it is legal to ship it around the US, it can be shipped from the US to Canada - question is if the CDN inspectors let it in ...

Post by **Stilldrunk** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:54 pm

Who's to say its not for water?

Post by **Stilldrunk** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:58 pm

Doogie wrote:
Bob Loblaw wrote:except I bet it is illegal to ship a still into the US from Canada...
Dunno - I got a coil thru from a fellow forum person.

It would be up to the inspector to know the excise act ... and then be smart enough to enquire if the recipient has a valid permit for the still. Worst case, if they banged on your door, you could play stupid - needs to be verified, I do not think the Exise act states penalties and fines and imprisionment for possession of wash/mash, equipment nor possession ... they do for selling ... but none of the others.

And from the US side, if it is legal to ship it around the US, it can be shipped from the US to Canada - question is if the CDN inspectors let it in ...

Hopefully Mile Hi will chime in. They must have some idea. I thought it was legal to distill water in canada, so safe to ship, i could be wrong.

Home Distiller

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