Baking Soda

[Hound Dog]

A teaspoon of baking soda in a few gallons of wash (not mash since you are not cooking UJSSM, you are using sugar) didn't do much of anything. You can use it in a wash to help with Ph a bit, I prefer calcium carbonate but have used this in a pinch. This thread is about using baking soda in low wines. Meaning running your wash fast through your pot still without making any cuts to get a little higher proof alcohol, then run it as a spirit run to get a cleaner spirit making proper cuts. You add the soda to the low wines before making the spirit run if you are shooting for a neutral spirit. I don't think it's a highly recommended technique for making whiskey on a pot still.

[Stilldrunk]

Here is what I do to get a clean, smooth product without using carbon:

Low % ferment (around 10%)
Fully clear the wash before stilling
Add bicarb/carb to the low wines (strippings)
Run through a tall column (at least 1000mm of packing)
Let product age for at least two weeks before drinking

DRINK!

This is how you do it every time with a neutral?
Would a batch of birdwatchers benefit from this method with bicarb/carb?

[Axdelmar]

A teaspoon of baking soda in a few gallons of wash (not mash since you are not cooking UJSSM, you are using sugar) didn't do much of anything. You can use it in a wash to help with Ph a bit, I prefer calcium carbonate but have used this in a pinch. This thread is about using baking soda in low wines. Meaning running your wash fast through your pot still without making any cuts to get a little higher proof alcohol, then run it as a spirit run to get a cleaner spirit making proper cuts. You add the soda to the low wines before making the spirit run if you are shooting for a neutral spirit. I don't think it's a highly recommended technique for making whiskey on a pot still.

Thanks for the answer...

[Hound Dog]

Glad to help @Axdelmar! Hope your product turns out good. Proper pot stilling is a trick I have not learned yet. Guys that are good at it just make it look simple though....


@Stilldrunk, if you are doing stripping runs with a birdwatchers wash, especially running a reflux rig, I think you can benefit from this a bit. I use it these days if I am trying to get a real clean neutral like from a feints run of different feints mixed together or a batch that didn't come out good and I want to clean up. If I am just doing an all bran or something I don't use the soda because I like the hint of wheat flavor. I haven't done a straight sugar wash in a while though.

[Axdelmar]

Spirit run today....woohooo...

[Stilldrunk]

Glad to help @Axdelmar! Hope your product turns out good. Proper pot stilling is a trick I have not learned yet. Guys that are good at it just make it look simple though....


@Stilldrunk, if you are doing stripping runs with a birdwatchers wash, especially running a reflux rig, I think you can benefit from this a bit. I use it these days if I am trying to get a real clean neutral like from a feints run of different feints mixed together or a batch that didn't come out good and I want to clean up. If I am just doing an all bran or something I don't use the soda because I like the hint of wheat flavor. I haven't done a straight sugar wash in a while though.

Well lately I haven't been doing stripping runs with my birdwatches, just straight to the reflux low and slow, so I'm guessing if I added it to the wash before the reflux it should work too?

[Hound Dog]

No. Adding a bunch to the wash will just throw off the Ph and probably give you blue distillate. This is for low wines. Read back in the thread or someone may chime in. There is some chemical reaction that takes place. This is not the case with just a wash.

[phillmystill]

Just a quick question about the sodium carbonate you people use.

Over here in the UK I am able to get sodium carbonate in anhydrous (light) or decahydrate (washing soda). Which do I use, or do I simply heat the decahydrate to make it anhydrous and then use that?

Thanks.

[rad14701]

Just a quick question about the sodium carbonate you people use.

Over here in the UK I am able to get sodium carbonate in anhydrous (light) or decahydrate (washing soda). Which do I use, or do I simply heat the decahydrate to make it anhydrous and then use that?

Thanks.

I have used both baking soda and washing soda... Considering how I found a big box of old Arm & Hammer Washing Soda in the basement, that is what I have been using recently... It's cheap, easy to source, safe to use, and works well...

[phillmystill]

Just a quick question about the sodium carbonate you people use.

Over here in the UK I am able to get sodium carbonate in anhydrous (light) or decahydrate (washing soda). Which do I use, or do I simply heat the decahydrate to make it anhydrous and then use that?

Thanks.

I have used both baking soda and washing soda... Considering how I found a big box of old Arm & Hammer Washing Soda in the basement, that is what I have been using recently... It's cheap, easy to source, safe to use, and works well...

Thanks for that, rad!

I raided the cupboards and found 3 tubs of bicarb, so I've used that on this occasion. I may give washing soda a go next time as it's a hell of a lot cheaper here.

Phill.

[Hound Dog]

Was the stuff you found any different Rad? I used to get big boxes at Costco for laundry but it seemed to be the same stuff as the little boxes in the grocery store. Even tasted the same.

[rad14701]

Was the stuff you found any different Rad? I used to get big boxes at Costco for laundry but it seemed to be the same stuff as the little boxes in the grocery store. Even tasted the same.

Arm & Hammer Baking Soda = Sodium Bicarbonate
Arm & Hammer Washing Soda = Sodium Carbonate

That's the only difference...

[acfixer69]

Like carbon monoxide= deadly
and carbon dioxide= flowers

AC

[TinkerTech]

NEVER put baking soda in anything that hasn't already been distilled. Id say that at least 10% of these posts were made by "ancy" novices who are clueless. A good rule of thumb on HD is to read the whole thread. There is usually a lot of misinformation from people who choose not to read whats written. Trust the solutions posted by people who have made thousands of posts. Its painful to sort through the BS, but, at least you wont make those same mistakes (We'd hope).

Too funny, reading and comprehension seem to be a dieing art.

To recap for the confused.

Adding bicarbonate soda (baking soda) to feints or low wines (stripping run), prior to a spirit run. NEVER ADD TO WASH

Why:
To react with esters, bad flavors, smells and other nasties, so the next run through the still will remove them and give nicer product.
Used often to give feints their last chance before they get thrown out.

When:
Add after the feints or low wines have been diluted to 40% ABV (it works in conjunction with water) and let sit for 1 to 5 days.

How much:
1 tablespoon (Tbls) per quart or liter. Not more, maybe much less if product is cloudy with particulate.

Cautions:
This is for neutral spirits, it will remove whiskey/rum/gin smells and flavors, you get vodka every time.
Sodium carbonate is a more powerful cousin of Bicarbonate soda, use much less (1 teaspoon per quart or less?).
Adding Bicarbonate soda to wash will ruin the wash. It will react with proteins, free ammonia and turn BLUE.
Adding Bicarbonate soda to a batch with a lot of particulate (cloudy) may have proteins/nitrogen that might turn it blue. (use less or none, up to you)
Blue is bad, ammonia is bad, best to just throw it out and not contaminate the still. (up to you)
Adding something other than Bicarbonate soda in the recommended amount, is between you and your fevered imagination. Murphy is watching you, and he's smiling.

[RandyMarshCT]

My well water is coming out at 3.1 ph.

Are you sure of this? That's the most acidic well water I've ever heard of. You can sanitize your equipment in that water if that's the case. If your well water is that acidic, I hope you have pex plumbing because that will corrode copper pipes away in no time. Mine is 5.8 and, while great for brewing beer, it destroys electric water heaters and plumbing fixtures in less than 10 years.

[DAD300]

Randy...if he has his own water treatment system, he could get it that low with overly aggressive chlorine injection.

[marquee_moon]

I work for the government regulating private well & borehole supplies. Randy's got a good point.
The only time I've come across pH 3.1 water is either from peat bogs or from coal gas/ shale gas waste.
I'm not even sure hypochlorite dosing would get you to pH 3.1. Off the top of my head, I think the world health organisation recomends drinking water is above pH 6 or something like that.

Axdelmar- I'd recomend you calibrate you pH meter, or get some new litmus. If it really is pH 3.1, you should at the very least concider treatment, if not a new water supply. It wont be doing your health any good at all: you'll get gaul stones quite quickly and with chronic exposure, you'll be at a much higher risk of heavy metal poisoning, kidney failure & probably cancer.

To give you a comparrison, orange juice is pH 3.5 so you water is 3 times as acidic as OJ and will have no sugar to mask that acidity, so if it really is pH 3.1, it probably tastes so sour it's almost undrinkable.
Randy marsh: pH 5.8 is the pH of the groundwater in Buton on Trent, home of Pale Ale. Fantastic pH for brewing!

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

So baking soda for low wines and calcium carbonate for wash? Have I got that right?

[shadylane]

So baking soda for low wines and calcium carbonate for wash? Have I got that right?

Yes, calcium carbonate for the wash.
I've tried using baking soda in the low-wines and after redistilling I could taste the baking soda.

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

Cool. Good thing I have access to mass amounts of both.

[cuddy-boozer]

What is the difference between Bicarb and Sodium carbonate?
One you have to add and let sit for a week before running and the other you can add and run right away, is that the difference?

Sodium bicarbonate is NaHCO3
Sodium carbonate is Na2CO3

The major difference is the additional Na ion and lack of H ion in the sodium carbonate. When I asked others if I should worry about it, they said NaH....

[still_stirrin]

....When I asked others if I should worry about it, they said NaH....

I can"t believe you said that.

[Bourbon_Greg]

I think the quoted dosage rates for 100% sodium carbonate might be way too high.

I am a new distiller but long time wine maker (since the 90's). I have several thousand bottles in my basement and a lot are not what I would call good enough to drink as wine so I thought I would make some brandy from some of them. I had about 4 gallons of 35% low wines from a stripping run of several different wines and it smelled pretty "heady" so I thought I would give sodium carbonate a try. From what I read here the rate is 1tsp per quart. I wanted some aroma and taste so I figured 1 tsp. per gallon might give me what I wanted. I added 4tsp (yes teaspoons) to the low wines and immediately did a spirit run. I collected 150ml of foreshots which I added to my Lighter Fluid container then collected the first pint and expected it to be heady. Wrong it was almost totally neutral! I still added this first pint to my next run but don't think it was really necessary. I ended up with almost 2 gallons of near totally neutral spirit at 138 proof. I did not think it would make good brandy so we made almost 5 gallons of 27% mighty tasty pecan pie from it!

I am running another very similar batch of low wine brandy right now and this time I added only 1tsp of sodium carbonate to about 4 gallons and after the foreshots the 1st pint is near neutral again. I am collecting the 3rd quart at 140 proof now and beginning to get a little good aroma. Not sure if this will end up as brandy or perhaps blueberry pie.

Any suggestions on cleaning a brandy a little without totally making it neutral?

My still is a 13 gallon electric immersion pot still. This new expansion of my hobby is a Blast!!!

[still_stirrin]

I think the quoted dosage rates for 100% calcium carbonate might be way too high....this time I added only 1tsp of calcium carbonate to about 4 gallons...

Any suggestions on cleaning a brandy a little without totally making it neutral?

Did you use calcium carbonate (chalk), or sodium carbonate? Different chemicals behave differently in the wash/low wines.

What type of still are you using? Brandys are often run as a single pass through a pot still, sometimes with a thumper (doubler). Or, you could do a fast strip in the pot still with a spirit run through the pot still (a 2nd pass).

With your screen name, I'd reckon you use a pot still, and you would make a brandy just like you do your favorite whiskey. And, put it on your favorite flavoring wood to age..it'll mature nicely.

Salvaging old inventory into something special is one of the fringe benefits of this hobby.

Be safe. Be responsible. And be discrete.
ss

[Bourbon_Greg]

Sorry it was sodium carbonate. If I can edit my original post I will. If I read correct the recommended dosage for sodium carbonate is the 1tsp per qt.

Yes it is a pot still. Yes I did a fast stripping run and then the spirit run.

When I bought the still I never even thought of using it to clear out old wine from my basement. Fantastic unexpected benefit!!!

[still_stirrin]

Sorry it was sodium carbonate.... If I read correct the recommended dosage for sodium carbonate is the 1tsp per quart.

Well, that is too much. More like 1/2 to 1 tsp per gallon. But even that is too much. I have used 2 tsp per 5 gallons with success. But it does reduce the esters where a lot of your flavor is in the brandy. I think I'd just run it as low wines without the Na2CO3.
ss

[Hound Dog]

Really the point in using baking soda is to clean up the spirits for a neutral. I wouldn't suggest it to use with brandy or whiskey. You could try a reflux setup, compress the heads and remove them then add back tails to your hearts for flavor. Mash Rookie went into this in a thread about making whiskey with a reflux. Or after taking the heads off with a LM setup, open her up and run it fast to get more blend. Sometimes you just blend tails this way without as much control though.

[Bourbon_Greg]

Sorry it was sodium carbonate.... If I read correct the recommended dosage for sodium carbonate is the 1tsp per quart.

Well, that is too much. More like 1/2 to 1 tsp per gallon. But even that is too much. I have used 2 tsp per 5 gallons with success. But it does reduce the esters where a lot of your flavor is in the brandy. I think I'd just run it as low wines without the Na2CO3.
ss

I ran at 1tsp per gallon not per qt. I was just saying that from my experience that perhaps 1tsp per qt, what I see most often recommended, is too much.

[bobnr32]

I spoiled a batch of wine- it turned to vinegar. My local wine lab recommended an alkali to add to the wash before distilling.
Your advice please.

[Hound Dog]

I have only added it to low wines, not bad wine . I believe if you read back through the thread it says not to use this method in a wash repeatedly.