Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing

[waster]

The parent site

http://homedistiller.org/theory/refluxdesign/hetp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

says " Zoran suggests that in some cases marbles may be as effective as a 0.2m HETP. " after giving the usual table of HETPs. Anyone know how to follow up on this comment?

[rad14701]

The parent site

http://homedistiller.org/theory/refluxdesign/hetp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

says " Zoran suggests that in some cases marbles may be as effective as a 0.2m HETP. " after giving the usual table of HETPs. Anyone know how to follow up on this comment?

I can assure you that my rig is getting better than 8" HETP's... Not sure where or how Zoran came to that conclusion... I don't recall him being a member here - at least not during my tenure here...

[lampshade]

Following Hound Dog's example, I inserted and soldered 5, 14-gauge wires, separated by 1/3", into the bottom of my column to hold-up marbles. Obviously, the picture shows that I haven't yet trimmed and filed the ends of the wires that stick outside the column.

Bottom of column, showing 5-wire grill

I created a pattern for drilling the holes. I know Martimer will like it.

[Hound Dog]

That looks familiar Lampshade!

[still_stirrin]

Here's another way to 'skin the cat':

Using 14 gage copper single strand (Romex wire) and some 20 gage multi-stranded separated to a single strand and threaded (like sewing thread) over and under each wrap. Then a touch of flux, the torch, and solder. Done.

It fits nicely down the inside of the 2" column and is positiond atop the 2" SS triclover fitting which is inserted and soldered in. The 'basket' can be easily removed to clean the marbles and the tube. Piece of cake.

[Hound Dog]

Here's another way to 'skin the cat':

Using 14 gage copper single strand (Romex wire) and some 20 gage multi-stranded separated to a single strand and threaded (like sewing thread) over and under each wrap. Then a touch of flux, the torch, and solder. Done.

It fits nicely down the inside of the 2" column and is positiond atop the 2" SS triclover fitting which is inserted and soldered in. The 'basket' can be easily removed to clean the marbles and the tube. Piece of cake.

I like that too.

[rad14701]

Nice solution, still_stirrin...

[waster]

Another skinned cat. Flip column upside down, fill with marbles/rings/junk, slide SS plate in vertically (square) and then flip. Edges catch on flange collar. Once right-side up, weight of packing keeps in place.

[cob]

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... g#p6811105

would make a good marble stop.

[lampshade]

Here's another way to 'skin the cat':

Using 14 gage copper single strand (Romex wire) and some 20 gage multi-stranded separated to a single strand and threaded (like sewing thread) over and under each wrap. Then a touch of flux, the torch, and solder. Done.

It fits nicely down the inside of the 2" column and is positiond atop the 2" SS triclover fitting which is inserted and soldered in. The 'basket' can be easily removed to clean the marbles and the tube. Piece of cake.

How do you size the basket correctly so that it fits snuggly on top of the flange lip, and doesn't fall through? My guess is that the lip is less than 1/16" thick.

Do you rely on some sort of spring action to spread the basket against the column wall, just above the flange lip? If so, is this spring forceful enough to carry the weight of the 2 liters of marbles that are needed to fill a 2" by 3 foot column? Maybe, if the basket were turned upside-down, the weight of the marbles could assist in spreading the basket against the column wall.

[lampshade]

Another skinned cat. Flip column upside down, fill with marbles/rings/junk, slide SS plate in vertically (square) and then flip. Edges catch on flange collar. Once right-side up, weight of packing keeps in place.

Is the SS plate rigid enough to insure that its corners rest on top of the flange collar (and don't bend) while supporting the weight of 2 liters of marbles? A 2" by 3-foot column will hold 2 liters of marbles. Rad's column is a lot smaller than 2"x36" and so his plate/grill doesn't need to support as much load.

[still_stirrin]

How do you size the basket correctly so that it fits snuggly on top of the flange lip, and doesn't fall through? My guess is that the lip is less than 1/16" thick.

Do you rely on some sort of spring action to spread the basket against the column wall, just above the flange lip? If so, is this spring forceful enough to carry the weight of the 2 liters of marbles that are needed to fill a 2" by 3 foot column? Maybe, if the basket were turned upside-down, the weight of the marbles could assist in spreading the basket against the column wall.

Hey Lampshade,

My column is 2" type M copper (2.125" OD and 2.009" ID). The Triclover ferrule is 2.000" OD and 1.870" ID, so it just slips snugly inside the copper and is soldered in. The "ledge" that the wire basket sits on is (2.009-1.870)/2 = .0695" (1/16" as you've said). The little wires threaded and soldered on the helix hold the basket shape, even under the load of marbles, and my packed column is 39" tall. The basket, as soldered up, is quite solid and the slight lip inside the column is perfect to retain it.

Of note, the top ferrule is a copper ferrule which slips over the copper pipe (not inside it like the SS ferule). The basket can be slipped into the tube from the top end and positioned at the lower ferrule. Then, I simply pour the marbles in. Its very easy in and out.

When I bent the coil for the basket, I did several check fits to make sure the coil was round and would fit snugly inside the 2" pipe. Thank goodness that copper wire can be shaped by hand. And a file might be a useful tool to custom fit the basket so it slides in place.

ss

[lampshade]

When I bent the coil for the basket, I did several check fits to make sure the coil was round and would fit snugly inside the 2" pipe. Thank goodness that copper wire can be shaped by hand. And a file might be a useful tool to custom fit the basket so it slides in place.

So if I understand you correctly, while bending the wire that forms the last coil of your basket, you were able to closely match that coil to the inside curve of your 2" column.

How close does the curve of the basket need to align with the curve of the column to provide sufficient support for holding up 2 liters of marbles? And is this easy to fabricate for most people?

[Brutal]

For variety I'm considering loading my old brewhaus ee-2 with marbles. The problem (one of them) with that design is you can't get much reflux. If I run it with marbles the refux I do get would run back down the marbles much faster than it did when I ran copper mesh or ceramic rashing (sp) rings. It's a compromise but I wonder if this design would see more or less of a benefit to using marbles? It's already got a stainless plate with holes in it welded on the bottom.

I've got almost all the parts to build a 2" boka too. Slight variation on a boka anyway. With the new electric set up it might make for a fun weekend to keep redistilling the same product and pouring it back in with both stills and all three packings. It does sound like a lot of work though.

[waster]

lampshade,

here it is with 36" of ceramic above it. I shook it pretty hard. Then I ran ~2GPM water through it with a hose (to see if it would flood). Then, while still completely wet, I blew through it--just detectable back pressure, about the same as going from normal breathing to breathing through an empty column (ie, double the total resistance of an empty column by itself).

but being a belt and suspenders kinda guy, I could put 2-3 of them there. the main thing is that unlike scrubbies, these are "unfloodable". since marbles are heavier than rings, that may be a good idea (my marbles are arriving today....)

for the test I want to do, I'm beefing up heating and cooling so that I can flood the column regardless of which packing I test... I'm also switching to a thermowell so that if/when I flood I don't have to worry about liquid pouring out that way.....

BTW, I also have some 304 SS scrap chain to try.

ss-chain.jpg (14.93 KiB) Viewed 3219 times

[SoMo]

I've done the math and it doesn't seem right, how many marbles or liters of marbles would my 1-1/2" x48" column need? Something doesn't seem right to me.
I keep coming up with 144 1/2" or 216 1/2" marbles.

[Bagasso]

I've done the math and it doesn't seem right, how many marbles or liters of marbles would my 1-1/2" x48" column need? Something doesn't seem right to me.
I keep coming up with 144 1/2" or 216 1/2" marbles.

I see 4 marbles in each layer so even if they sat right on top of each other, at least:
48*2*4 = 384 marbles

[SoMo]

I've done the math and it doesn't seem right, how many marbles or liters of marbles would my 1-1/2" x48" column need? Something doesn't seem right to me.
I keep coming up with 144 1/2" or 216 1/2" marbles.

I see 4 marbles in each layer so even if they sat right on top of each other, at least:
48*2*4 = 384 marbles

Thanks don't want to have to make multiple trips for marbles.

[Bagasso]

Thanks don't want to have to make multiple trips for marbles.

Sorry SoMo, the marbles I was looking at are 5/8". 1/2" might be 5 marbles per layer which would be 480 if they stack right on top of each other, but they will probably nestle a bit tighter. You might want to think about 600.

[SoMo]

Thanks B,I know both sizes are out there went to hell*mart this evening they don't carry regular marbles just some in the craft aisle that were way over priced for what you get so the Mrs is gonna hit the dollar junk store and see what we can find. That's gonna be a bunch of marbles. Thanks for your help. I hope to report some info in a couple of days.

[still_stirrin]

Thanks B,I know both sizes are out there went to hell*mart this evening they don't carry regular marbles just some in the craft aisle that were way over priced for what you get so the Mrs is gonna hit the dollar junk store and see what we can find. That's gonna be a bunch of marbles. Thanks for your help. I hope to report some info in a couple of days.

SoMo,
I looked at the big W and the big T-store for marbles (in the toy department) without luck too. But if you have a Hobby Lobby close, you should check there.

See this link from an earlier post:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p7232412

ss

[bearriver]

Still haven't got my damned marbles. Will call the place tomorrow and see whats up...

[rager]

im about to order these. 600 for 30 bucks . good deal?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_sc_1?rh= ... 1408762596" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[SoMo]

im about to order these. 600 for 30 bucks . good deal?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_sc_1?rh= ... 1408762596" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

That's probably what would have to spend at hell*mart theirs where 2-1/2lbs for 6$

[Bagasso]

I just weighed the bag of 100 5/8" marbles that I have and they came in at 1 lb.

[SoMo]

I just weighed the bag of 100 5/8" marbles that I have and they came in at 1 lb.

What did the cost you?

[Bagasso]

I seem to remember that it was about $1.50 but I doubt that info would be of much use since I live in central america.

[SoMo]

Yeah probably not gonna do me much good, thanks tho.

[Bagasso]

I was just thinking that 2 1/2 lbs would be 250 5/8" marbles for $6.

$12 for 500 doesn't sound bad and that may be enough to fill your needs.

[SoMo]

I was just thinking that 2 1/2 lbs would be 250 5/8" marbles for $6.

$12 for 500 doesn't sound bad and that may be enough to fill your needs.

I think you are right they had 5/8's and 1/2" for the same price probably gonna go that route, now to decide which size would be the best in my 1-1/2" column.